NHL Scoring Problem

[Who Else?]

I will always be in favor for taller nets.  The net does not to be larger in any other way. A taller net takes up no more ice space.  Goalies are already pretty much maximum size, so this only needs to be a one time adjustment.  A taller net would force goalies to play on their feet more often.  Goalies now can just back up into the net on their knees and pretty much take up from ice to top bar.  With the adjusted net now if a goalie goes down too early the top will be mostly open especially from farther distances.

[Eleven]

How to make goalie equipment smaller, yet still safe:  https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/700142570442084352

[Hoss]

How to make goalie equipment smaller, yet still safe: https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/700142570442084352

Saw this a while back. It's perfect. You have to think these adjustments would make goalies a little more agile and quick, too, which might lead to more acrobatic saves. Make them make the save, not just stand there and take shots.

[Iron Crotch]

In the Preds - Leafs game last night, the Preds were up 3-0.  Ryan Ellis scored a power play goal to make it 4-0.  The Leafs called for an offside review.  About 25 seconds before the goal, Mike Fisher was maybe an inch offside.  Didn't matter in the slightest with respect to the goal that was eventually scored.  Nevertheless, it was ruled "no goal."  Good job NHL.  :angry:

[MattPie]

In the Preds - Leafs game last night, the Preds were up 3-0.  Ryan Ellis scored a power play goal to make it 4-0.  The Leafs called for an offside review.  About 25 seconds before the goal, Mike Fisher was maybe an inch offside.  Didn't matter in the slightest with respect to the goal that was eventually scored.  Nevertheless, it was ruled "no goal."  Good job NHL.  :angry:

 

If it didn't matter to the goal, he should have stayed on-side. I think the challenge being called by the coach is BS, but I'm not sure I care if the Toronto room made it part of it's standard review process.

[Samson's Flow]

I will always be in favor for taller nets.  The net does not to be larger in any other way. A taller net takes up no more ice space.  Goalies are already pretty much maximum size, so this only needs to be a one time adjustment.  A taller net would force goalies to play on their feet more often.  Goalies now can just back up into the net on their knees and pretty much take up from ice to top bar.  With the adjusted net now if a goalie goes down too early the top will be mostly open especially from farther distances.

 

 

How to make goalie equipment smaller, yet still safe:  https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/700142570442084352

A combination of these two is the best way to fix the scoring problem. In the modern NHL, a goalie most of the time doesn't actually make a reflex move to make the save, but rather can just go into the butterfly and stay square to the shooter. That's because the butterfly move takes up 90% of the available shooting space currently - why even bother with any other move?

 

Hasek made the majority of his saves by making a 'save' move, and before that in the mask-less era every goalie was kicking and lunging with the glove/blocker to make saves. This is what we need to get back to - think college/outdoor lacrosse goalie vs. NLL indoor lacrosse goalie (Bandits) who look like sumo wrestlers.

[Sabel79]

I will always be in favor for taller nets.  The net does not to be larger in any other way. A taller net takes up no more ice space.  Goalies are already pretty much maximum size, so this only needs to be a one time adjustment.  A taller net would force goalies to play on their feet more often.  Goalies now can just back up into the net on their knees and pretty much take up from ice to top bar.  With the adjusted net now if a goalie goes down too early the top will be mostly open especially from farther distances.

Just wait until skaters see an exponential increase in the number of pucks to the face...

[tom webster]

If it didn't matter to the goal, he should have stayed on-side. I think the challenge being called by the coach is BS, but I'm not sure I care if the Toronto room made it part of it's standard review process.

 

I agree. The same people that think the Hull should have been called for having a foot in the crease because it was a rule at the time want to go with "just be close" when it comes to offsides.

[Iron Crotch]

If it didn't matter to the goal, he should have stayed on-side. I think the challenge being called by the coach is BS, but I'm not sure I care if the Toronto room made it part of it's standard review process.

 

Just another rule designed to further reduce scoring. Same with a review for goalie interference. The offside challenges should at least have some sort of time limit...

[MattPie]

Just another rule designed to further reduce scoring. Same with a review for goalie interference. The offside challenges should at least have some sort of time limit...

 

I'm not going to disagree with either, but I'm also not going to complain about it.

[Who Else?]

Just wait until skaters see an exponential increase in the number of pucks to the face...

There is ways to protect this. However this brings up another point for.  If players are scared of getting hit in the grill, they will either find new ways to block shots instead of throwing themselves all over the ice.  It would be necessary for the d to approach closer to the puck for the body block.  This would open up more space down low for creativity and also keep the defensive wingers out into quick offensive positions.  And once again you will have to be brave to go to the front of the net.  look at the space and chaos Zhitnik would create.

[Huckleberry]

I don't mind low scoring games as long as they are exciting to watch.  

[#freejame]

How to make goalie equipment smaller, yet still safe:  https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/700142570442084352

I saw this the other day and thought there was no reason not to make those changes. Especially if you said that the smaller equipment was both lighter and safer. 

 

Saw this a while back. It's perfect. You have to think these adjustments would make goalies a little more agile and quick, too, which might lead to more acrobatic saves. Make them make the save, not just stand there and take shots.

I used to be a huge goalie guy because of the athletic, quick saves that used to be so prevalent in hockey. Goalies are so boring to watch most games now that I've become completely indifferent to what used to be my favorite position. Luckily Lehner is bringing back some of the fun, but I think he would benefit from smaller pads in the same way Lundqvist (I think) said he would, his play would stand out as being superior because of his skills and not numbers. 

 

I don't mind low scoring games as long as they are exciting to watch.  

I hit quote on the wrong post, but can't find the one I meant to about nets so I'll put the comment here--Someone a while back mentioned slightly reducing the circumference of the posts and I think that would benefit a lot. I think they could probably shave off a 1/4 inch of both sides, which doesn't sound like much but could contribute to a few more goals a years without really altering the net much. If only there was a way we could "lower the mound" to see results quickly. 

[Eleven]

d4rk, what say you?

[darksabre]

d4rk, what say you?

 

I think Corey Hirsch is a washed up hack who was barely an NHL caliber goalie, never played the butterfly style in the modern NHL, and has been unable to coach goalies at the NHL level. 

 

His opinion on reducing goalie equipment is full of holes and speaks to a lack of knowledge about the modern game. 

[Eleven]

I think Corey Hirsch is a washed up hack who was barely an NHL caliber goalie, never played the butterfly style in the modern NHL, and has been unable to coach goalies at the NHL level. 

 

His opinion on reducing goalie equipment is full of holes and speaks to a lack of knowledge about the modern game. 

 

You would never let this pass in the politics thread.  How so?

[SwampD]

You would never let this pass in the politics thread.  How so?

This is like asking the head of Chevron how to reduce global warming.

[nfreeman]

How to make goalie equipment smaller, yet still safe:  https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/700142570442084352

 

Wow.  That is outstanding.

 

Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the NHL to enact it.

 

I hit quote on the wrong post, but can't find the one I meant to about nets so I'll put the comment here--Someone a while back mentioned slightly reducing the circumference of the posts and I think that would benefit a lot. I think they could probably shave off a 1/4 inch of both sides, which doesn't sound like much but could contribute to a few more goals a years without really altering the net much. If only there was a way we could "lower the mound" to see results quickly. 

 

Also an excellent idea -- I've heard something similar, to the effect of "beveling" the posts such that more shots that hit the post deflect into the net.

[darksabre]

You would never let this pass in the politics thread.  How so?

The changes he outlines essentially force goalies away from the butterfly style, ignoring the fact that the players and owners will never allow this. The butterfly is efficient and is easier on the body, which keeps goalies from getting hurt. Reducing pad size will force goalies to overextend to try to maintain their production, causing injuries, and driving the value of goaltenders down monetarily, and driving down parity which is something the league has worked hard to cultivate. The NHLPA wont allow its goalies to be devalued and subjected to greater injury risk, and the teams wont risk being subjected to what a team like Montreal is dealing with right now.  

[Hoss]

FTR I was the one who suggested reducing the circumstance of the posts. A simple fix that wouldn't significantly after much.

Make the pads smaller, thin the posts and get rid of the trapezoid. Give shooters more space to shoot at and force goalies to make more plays instead of just sitting there and devouring all open space in net.

[SwampD]

The changes he outlines essentially force goalies away from the butterfly style, ignoring the fact that the players and owners will never allow this. The butterfly is efficient and is easier on the body, which keeps goalies from getting hurt. Reducing pad size will force goalies to overextend to try to maintain their production, causing injuries, and driving the value of goaltenders down monetarily, and driving down parity which is something the league has worked hard to cultivate. The NHLPA wont allow its goalies to be devalued and subjected to greater injury risk, and the teams wont risk being subjected to what a team like Montreal is dealing with right now.  

This seems like a reach.

Actually, it seems like several reaches.

Maybe even a goalie reacharound.

[darksabre]

This seems like a reach.

 

Actually, it seems like several reaches.

 

Maybe even a goalie reacharound.

How so? Making the pads smaller means goalies have to stay on their feet longer. They will have to maintain a more stand-up style because saves will have to be more about reaction than positioning. Dropping to knees will open up too much net. This will cause more injuries because goalies will be forced to make riskier athletic moves, moves that have been eliminated from the game thanks to the butterfly.

 

Sure, it'll increase scoring. But you won't like the cost.

[SwampD]

How so? Making the pads smaller means goalies have to stay on their feet longer. They will have to maintain a more stand-up style because saves will have to be more about reaction than positioning. Dropping to knees will open up too much net. This will cause more injuries because goalies will be forced to make riskier athletic moves, moves that have been eliminated from the game thanks to the butterfly.

 

Sure, it'll increase scoring. But you won't like the cost.

Did goalies get injured more often in the past?

And how many goalies are injured right now?

And maybe the goalie position needs to be devalued a little.

[darksabre]

Did goalies get injured more often in the past?

And how many goalies are injured right now?

And maybe the goalie position needs to be devalued a little.

Goalies were definitely injured more often in the past. They also suffer worse health problems later in life. The standup style is a much more abusive style to play. Goalies wont want to go back to that.

 

You also set off a chain reaction if you do something like drastically change how goalies play the game. Reducing parity among goalies puts you back to where the league was when guys like Roy, Brodeur and Hasek were around. The elite are truly elite and the middle drops out. So maybe you push scoring up because goalies aren't stopping as many shots, but the extra good goalies are so good you have to do things like invent the Trapezoid to contain them. You give too much advantage to the teams who have mythical creatures in net. 

 

I think the league likes where the balance is at, with the focus being tipped more towards how good the best skaters are, rather than how good the best goalies are. If you make it easier for everyone to score you lose some of that appeal with your stars. 

 

And for me, at the end of the day, they game isn't about the goalies. It's about the skaters. I see no reason to deliberately reduce parity among goalies. 

[SwampD]

Goalies were definitely injured more often in the past. They also suffer worse health problems later in life. The standup style is a much more abusive style to play. Goalies wont want to go back to that.

 

You also set off a chain reaction if you do something like drastically change how goalies play the game. Reducing parity among goalies puts you back to where the league was when guys like Roy, Brodeur and Hasek were around. The elite are truly elite and the middle drops out. So maybe you push scoring up because goalies aren't stopping as many shots, but the extra good goalies are so good you have to do things like invent the Trapezoid to contain them. You give too much advantage to the teams who have mythical creatures in net. 

 

I think the league likes where the balance is at, with the focus being tipped more towards how good the best skaters are, rather than how good the best goalies are. If you make it easier for everyone to score you lose some of that appeal with your stars. 

 

And for me, at the end of the day, they game isn't about the goalies. It's about the skaters. I see no reason to deliberately reduce parity among goalies. 

I'm still skeptical of your take. Advances in medicine can explain why goalies long term health is better. Even with the smaller gear, the butterfly would still be the preferred method. It came about when there was smaller gear, so I think that is a non-starter.

 

How does opening up the five hole force a goalie to make a more athletic save?

 

Another thing is that the NHL wouldn't have to do every change in that video to create more scoring. Of the changes suggested, which do you find least offensive to your bubble-wrapped snowflake goalie sensibility ( :nana:) that you could live with?

Edited February 25, 2016 by SwampD