GDT: Philadelphia @ Buffalo, 7:00 pm edt, 10/30/2015

[LGR4GM]

Nothing to you. Something to me.

Alright why do you dislike Evander?

[musichunch]

Alright why do you dislike Evander?

 

Let me copy and paste from my post about 10 minutes ago:

 

 

 

Gut reaction. Personality type. Consistent history of being a pain. Narcissism. History of dealing with people with a very similar personality. No sense of having changed at all. Just a general feeling of "it's a matter of time".

[TrueBlueGED]

Nothing to you. Something to me.

It may not be fair, but being unable to provide specifics contributes to people jumping to the race card.

[musichunch]

It may not be fair, but being unable to provide specifics contributes to people jumping to the race card.

 

I provided specifics. The problem is that I didn't provide specifics you liked to hear. I provided specifics relevant to me and my experience, rather than yours. 

 

As for the race card and the whole ROR/Kane comparison. I felt like it was elementary school logic. The type of crap that gets upvoted on Reddit. Surface level logic that falls apart once you spend 15 seconds thinking about other variables. 

[K-9]

Nothing to you. Something to me.

 

You said you based your feelings on intuition. Which is fine.

 

Just so long as we all understand that intuition is based on the lack of conscious reasoning.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[PromoTheRobot]

Let me copy and paste from my post about 10 minutes ago:

It's all gut feeling stuff.

[Eleven]

Ryan O'Reilly drives drunk and busts a Tim Hortons window, then abandons his vehicle, and gets lauded for leadership. Evander Kane dates a model and takes pictures with money, and gets vilified for antics because he doesn't conform to what a bunch of old hockey curmudgeons think constitutes a hockey player. It's absurd.

 

Bang on.

 

 

You can view his personality/actions anyway you want, but I know at least in my case, it has nothing to do with race. That's what got me going in this thread. 

 

As for O'Reilly the Tim Hortons thing struck me as an isolated incident right after getting a $60M contact. Maybe I'm just racist, who knows. 

 

I can take you at your word that it has nothing to do with race in your case.  I just can't believe that it has nothing to do with race on the larger stage.

Edited November 1, 2015 by eleven

[LTS]

I'll be the first to dis Nolan but lets not act like the roster wasn't completely turned over

 

I'm watching the same players who are playing a completely different game now.  The new players, as nice as they are, would not change that.  The decision making with the puck, the patience, those are not changed because new players are brought in.  They are changed because of coaching and the fact that the players on the ice have an expectation of what the other 4 guys on the ice are doing now... besides working hard.  I stated this last year when Nolan was coach.  His players would skate but they were never moving into a strategic position.  The team was not on the same page.

 

Exactly. And how can anyone with a straight face say Nolan and staff were in the position to do their best coaching job? It's hysterical that some on this board, the virulent tankers, can criticize Nolan for not doing a better job. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

 

I can say it.  If Nolan were the coach of this team they would still be getting out shot and not even close in games.  I wasn't an avid tank person. I understood what Murray was doing and I think he's done a great job but I didn't want to see losing.  There's no cake and eat it too.  Nolan is a horrible coach.  I'd love to know why people think he is a good coach or should even be considered a good coach.  The knowledge of a hockey player and the ability to skate to a spot on the ice isn't all that dramatic from the NHL and the AHL.  The ability to execute a clean pass, beat a goalie, play shutdown defense... those are the big differences.  Last year I watched a team that looked like 5 guys on the ice going 5 different things.  That's not ability, that's coaching.

 

You could put Nolan in as the coach of the Canadiens and assuming they actually agree to adopt his coaching system I would expect them to miss the playoffs... handily.

[Stoner]

You could put Nolan in as the coach of the Canadiens and assuming they actually agree to adopt his coaching system I would expect them to miss the playoffs... handily.

And how many points would Bylsma have gotten with last year's Sabres?

[TrueBlueGED]

And how many points would Bylsma have gotten with last year's Sabres?

 

More than 54. Not a ton more, but more. Maybe 60?

[dudacek]

And how many points would Bylsma have gotten with last year's Sabres?

 

Maybe 10 points more at the most, but the games wouldn't have been so embarassingly bad.

Edited November 2, 2015 by dudacek

[Weave]

Maybe 10 points more at the most, but the games wouldn't have been so embarassingly bad.

 

I think the only difference of substance would have been the existence of an actual powerplay.  They didn't have enough talent to score many more goals but it certainly would have looked like there was a plan behind it.

[Stoner]

More than 54. Not a ton more, but more. Maybe 60?

Wouldn't that have been swell. I'm over the Nolan situation. I like the guy and know he was set up to fail. I believe he knew it and he ended up getting handsomely rewarded for throwing himself on the grenade. No sad face for Ted. I just don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that goes something like, "Ted was a dumb dumb, look how genius Bylsma turned them around." Totally unfair.

[dudacek]

I think the only difference of substance would have been the existence of an actual powerplay.  They didn't have enough talent to score many more goals but it certainly would have looked like there was a plan behind it.

 

They would have been a heck of a lot better at getting the puck out of our zone.

Probably moving it through the neutral zone as well.

 

Wouldn't that have been swell. I'm over the Nolan situation. I like the guy and know he was set up to fail. I believe he knew it and he ended up getting handsomely rewarded for throwing himself on the grenade. No sad face for Ted. I just don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that goes something like, "Ted was a dumb dumb, look how genius Bylsma turned them around." Totally unfair.

 

Some truth in all of this.

I don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that no one could have done a better job with those players.

Totally unfair.

[Stoner]

They would have been a heck of a lot better at getting the puck out of our zone.

Probably moving it through the neutral zone as well.

 

 

Some truth in all of this.

I don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that no one could have done a better job with those players.

Totally unfair.

I agree. Ted Nolans could have.

[LTS]

And how many points would Bylsma have gotten with last year's Sabres?

Indeterminate.

 

Wouldn't that have been swell. I'm over the Nolan situation. I like the guy and know he was set up to fail. I believe he knew it and he ended up getting handsomely rewarded for throwing himself on the grenade. No sad face for Ted. I just don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that goes something like, "Ted was a dumb dumb, look how genius Bylsma turned them around." Totally unfair.

 

Revisionism?  Certainly not me.  He's a horrible coach.  "Go that way, really fast and if something gets in your way, turn."  The entire staff was set up to fail,of course.  They were also faced with the last coaching opportunities they were going to get in the NHL.  Nolan had no choice (I posted this last year).  Murray held all the chips.  Keep Nolan, placate the fans.  If Nolan succeeds then great, but it's likely he won't.  So he fails, you send him packing, and he helped accomplish a last place finish.  Let's not pretend that Nolan was included in the discussion of every coaching vacancy in between his HC stints.  He wasn't... in any of them as far as I know.

 

The easiest way to put this is this.  He's not a good coach and he was set up to fail.  He would have failed anyway, but perhaps not as poorly with this years team.  The categorization of "dumb dumb" and "genius" is unwarranted.  I have provided examples of areas where Nolan was simply not capable of coaching an NHL team.  it wasn't diluted down to "he dumb, he smart".  

[Eleven]

Indeterminate.

 

 

Revisionism?  Certainly not me.  He's a horrible coach.  "Go that way, really fast and if something gets in your way, turn."  The entire staff was set up to fail,of course.  They were also faced with the last coaching opportunities they were going to get in the NHL.  Nolan had no choice (I posted this last year).  Murray held all the chips.  Keep Nolan, placate the fans.  If Nolan succeeds then great, but it's likely he won't.  So he fails, you send him packing, and he helped accomplish a last place finish.  Let's not pretend that Nolan was included in the discussion of every coaching vacancy in between his HC stints.  He wasn't... in any of them as far as I know.

 

The easiest way to put this is this.  He's not a good coach and he was set up to fail.  He would have failed anyway, but perhaps not as poorly with this years team.  The categorization of "dumb dumb" and "genius" is unwarranted.  I have provided examples of areas where Nolan was simply not capable of coaching an NHL team.  it wasn't diluted down to "he dumb, he smart".  

 

Here's your big chance, Liger.

[Doohicksie]

Wouldn't that have been swell. I'm over the Nolan situation. I like the guy and know he was set up to fail. I believe he knew it and he ended up getting handsomely rewarded for throwing himself on the grenade. No sad face for Ted. I just don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that goes something like, "Ted was a dumb dumb, look how genius Bylsma turned them around." Totally unfair.

 

Well he worked two seasons and got paid for three, so there is that.

[X. Benedict]

Wouldn't that have been swell. I'm over the Nolan situation. I like the guy and know he was set up to fail. I believe he knew it and he ended up getting handsomely rewarded for throwing himself on the grenade. No sad face for Ted. I just don't want this historical revisionism to take hold that goes something like, "Ted was a dumb dumb, look how genius Bylsma turned them around." Totally unfair.

 

Is it historical revisionism for those that were saying, "Ted is dumb, dumb, dumb, there is no transition game." ?  Because I'm pretty sure, those that were saying that still haven't changed their minds. 

[LGR4GM]

Here's your big chance, Liger.

"What a coach. Alright I'm gonna do it... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"

[Taro T]

Here's your big chance, Liger.

 

 

 

"What a coach. Alright I'm gonna do it... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"

He was referring to your chance to once again post an inane YouTube video. :doh:

[Eleven]

 

 

 

He was referring to your chance to once again post an inane YouTube video. :doh:

 

He knows.  He's toying with me.

[LGR4GM]

He knows.  He's toying with me.

:thumbsup:  :beer:

[MattPie]

Easy fall back answer.

 

It's his attitude, his personality, his "vibe". It should be noted that Byfuglien, who's black himself, led the brigade to kick Kane out of Winnipeg. 

 

Check out his Instagram. Where I'm from most people would consider him a douchebag if they knew him. If he didn't play hockey he would most certainly be hanging out on Chippewa wearing an Affliction shirt, hitting on girls outside Bambino's. 

 

Instead he's dating L.A. models, "accidentally" being interviewed by TMZ, and taking helicopter rides to Toronto the night before a game. 

 

Sure, it's not "off-ice antics" in the same way that most sports fans (young to middle-aged white guys) think of it. He's not getting DUIs, punching girls, and getting into bar fights. But he has a strong personality that changes the composition of a locker room, and it's questionable that it's in a positive way. 

 

I'm frankly annoyed that the race card is being pulled out. He's lighter skinned than Drake, for God's sake and Drake is half-Jewish. 

I have no idea who Drake is, but Derek Roy acted pretty similarly to Kane and the international media never was reporting his "antics." Same goes for the other Kane; until he was accused of rape, it was a "boys will be boys" mentality towards him.

 

Why are we not talking about McGinn's antics? He was on the helicopter too.

 

Absolutely. You could say there's something there about a single incident vs a consistent persona, but I think Kane gets crap for absolutely nothing.

I also like that Big Buf has been propped up as an "authority" and some type of great dude. He has also been arrested and had on-ice issues at times. He's no angel.

 

Question to the crowd: if none of this is about being black, how come Buff keeps coming up in this conversation? Ladd, the captain has come up when he talked about it in the media, but Buff isn't an alternate or anything. It has a very "see, other black people don't like him so it's OK that I don't either" feel to it.

Edited November 3, 2015 by MattPie

[Doohicksie]

I think you see what you want to see in this in terms of race.