Future Sabres: Identifying the core

[That Aud Smell]

Perhaps moreover, where are the future pieces coming from? A lot assets have been expended. We have some prospects in the pipeline. I reckon that, in order for this to come together, the team has to hit big on someone who's a current prospect. I guess that's always the case.

 

This is what intrigues/troubles me the most.

[WildCard]

The core players will be self-evident.    They will reveal themselves as this team transforms into a contender.    O'Reilly and Eichel are the only evident core players today.   Beyond that you can only guess.  

 

This team hasn't won anything yet.   Who will be the players that support a playoff run?    Risto is developing nicely, but can he continue to improve at this rate, how long until he plateaues?   Nobody knows.    Does Guhle have a higher upside?   Maybe?   Are any of these guys injury prone?   It comes down to the players themselves.    Who is willing to put in the work, make the sacrifices to elevate their game?    Who are the leaders in the locker room?   Only the players and coaches know those answers. 

 

That said, Gorges is killing this team.    He was brutal last night.   Normally he's the slowest guy on the ice, last night EDM made him look like he should be playing beer league.   He lost every dump into his corner, I felt bad for him.   You know it's bad when you start to wonder if Mike Weber would be an upgrade.

No Reinhart?

 

And Gorges was far form the worst defender last night. Risto and McCabe were worse than him

 

I go with 6, one top line, one dman and one goalie and one second line center..

Unless it's Hasek, Price, or King Henrik, I just don't see goalies being a necessity of a core

[pi2000]

No Reinhart?

 

And Gorges was far form the worst defender last night. Risto and McCabe were worse than him

 

 

I'd put Reinhart in the same group as Risto, Bogosian, McCabe and Girgensons.   Watching Eichel it's easy to tell he's a future superstar.   He does thing physically that very few other players can.    Watching Reinhart, I just don't see anything special about him physically that separates him from other prospects.    Yes I know his upside is in how he sees the game and making veteran plays at very young age.    Where is his ceiling?   Can he continue to develop physically?   Will he get faster, quicker?   Or just always be the guy he is today?    

 

McCabe and Risto made some bad plays, but Gorges was just flat out physically unable to keep up with the pace of the game.     

[Hoss]

And thanks to the universally-hated Hoss for reviving the thread. You're gonna be UH-Hoss from now on, dude.

You can call me RhinHOSSeros from now on.

[That Aud Smell]

You can call me RhinHOSSeros from now on.

 

I missed that one. I think I'm going with UH-Hoss.

[Doohicksie]

I don't see Kane as part of the core. A very solid piece, but he's expendable down the line. All wingers are unless you're Patrick Kane or Ovechkin 

 

When I was following Detroit, my feeling was Brendan Shanahan was just a hired gun, a very good, but expendable, winger.  Realistically though he was part of their core, playing 9 seasons with them and winning 3 Cups.  I can easily see Kane being in that position- a guy that isn't considered part of the core, but somehow staying with the team and being a major contributor.  You build teams around centers and the scoring winger is more of a "hired gun" in many cases.  So I can see Kane as a long term piece of the team; whether that makes him part of the core, I guess, depends on your perspective.

The core players will be self-evident.    They will reveal themselves as this team transforms into a contender.    O'Reilly and Eichel are the only evident core players today.   Beyond that you can only guess. 

 

No, I think Risto and Reinhart are also just as much core players.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Reinhart stays with the team as part of the core longer than either ROR or Eichel.

That said, Gorges is killing this team.    He was brutal last night.   Normally he's the slowest guy on the ice, last night EDM made him look like he should be playing beer league.   He lost every dump into his corner, I felt bad for him.   You know it's bad when you start to wonder if Mike Weber would be an upgrade.

 

If that's the way you saw it, we were watching different games.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

If you are going to win a cup, then your core right now is O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian, and Girgensons.

 

If you are just happy getting in the playoffs on a consistant basis then you throw in names like Eichel, Ristolainen and maybe Reinhart.

 

The first 4 can win it without the last 3 but not vice versa.

 

Guys like Gorges and Deslauriers to go with the first 4 are what will get you a Cup.

[Doohicksie]

If you are going to win a cup, then your core right now is O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian, and Girgensons.

 

If you are just happy getting in the playoffs on a consistant basis then you throw in names like Eichel, Ristolainen and maybe Reinhart.

 

The first 4 can win it without the last 3 but not vice versa.

 

Guys like Gorges and Deslauriers to go with the first 4 are what will get you a Cup.

 

Only if you're pushing the timetable.  In three years, that logic flips.  Eichel, Risto and Reinhart are your core.  ROR is still prominent.  Kane is only here still if he's scoring.  Bogo will be banged up and slowing down but hopefully still effective.  Girgs is here centering the third line, fighting of some younger guy for the job.

[WildCard]

If you are going to win a cup, then your core right now is O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian, and Girgensons.

 

If you are just happy getting in the playoffs on a consistant basis then you throw in names like Eichel, Ristolainen and maybe Reinhart.

 

The first 4 can win it without the last 3 but not vice versa.

 

Guys like Gorges and Deslauriers to go with the first 4 are what will get you a Cup.

As in the the Cup this year, or if ever?

[Doohicksie]

...and Chad Johnson in three years will be coaching kids at Harbor Center with Adams and Mair if he's lucky.

[That Aud Smell]

If you are going to win a cup, then your core right now is O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian, and Girgensons.

 

If you are just happy getting in the playoffs on a consistant basis then you throw in names like Eichel, Ristolainen and maybe Reinhart.

 

The first 4 can win it without the last 3 but not vice versa.

 

Guys like Gorges and Deslauriers to go with the first 4 are what will get you a Cup.

 

The lunch pail is strong with this one.

 

You need high-end talent and the deep character guys in order to win a Cup. Yin and Yang in balance. Those first four can no more win it without the other three, than the other three without the first four.

[Doohicksie]

As in the the Cup this year, or if ever?

 

No way they contend this year.  Next year would be a miracle.  A more reasonable timetable is 3-7 years (probably coming close 2 or 3 times before winning it all).

Edited December 7, 2015 by The Big Johnson

[WildCard]

No way they contend this year.  Next year would be a miracle.  A more reasonable timetable is 3-7 years (probably coming close 2 or 3 times before winning it all).

I know there's no way of winning this year, I'm trying to get his meaning though

[Doohicksie]

I know there's no way of winning this year, I'm trying to get his meaning though

 

Oh, it's GoDD.... just stirring the pot.

[That Aud Smell]

A more reasonable timetable is 3-7 years (probably coming close 2 or 3 times before winning it all).

 

That 3-7 made me wince. Because the contending needs to start, at least as an initial matter, at or around that 3 year mark.

 

That is, if this team isn't ready to make a playoff run in three years (so, starting with the 2018 season (?)), I think GM TM and/or Hot Daniel will and should be gone.

[3putt]

The lunch pail is strong with this one.

You need high-end talent and the deep character guys in order to win a Cup. Yin and Yang in balance. Those first four can no more win it without the other three, than the other three without the first four.

[qwksndmonster]

The lunch pail is strong with this one.

 

You need high-end talent and the deep character guys in order to win a Cup. Yin and Yang in balance. Those first four can no more win it without the other three, than the other three without the first four.

Yup. And Bogosian has yet to show that he's better than Tyler Myers.

 

Judging from this thread, it appears that I value Kane higher than most here.  Most natural winger, true power forward.

[WildCard]

Yup. And Bogosian has yet to show that he's better than Tyler Myers.

 

Judging from this thread, it appears that I value Kane higher than most here.  Most natural winger, true power forward.

Enough to shell out $9 m for him?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Only if you're pushing the timetable. In three years, that logic flips. Eichel, Risto and Reinhart are your core. ROR is still prominent. Kane is only here still if he's scoring. Bogo will be banged up and slowing down but hopefully still effective. Girgs is here centering the third line, fighting of some younger guy for the job.

All those guys will still be in their mid late 20s. Their style of game is so much more important.

 

You just need look back. You roll the dice on Vanek, Pominville and Tallinder....you let Dumont, Grier, and McKee walk. It was over before it started, and even still having Drury and Briere couldn't stop the plane from stalling.

 

Presidents Trophy or Stanley Cup?

 

And I am sorry to have insulted Vanek, Pominville and Tallinder as odds are they will end up with more successful careers than the 3 people currently here. I would settle for the same type of career as long as Murray sticks to his plan.

[Doohicksie]

That 3-7 made me wince. Because the contending needs to start, at least as an initial matter, at or around that 3 year mark.

 

That is, if this team isn't ready to make a playoff run in three years (so, starting with the 2018 season (?)), I think GM TM and/or Hot Daniel will and should be gone.

 

I'm saying 3-7 to win the Cup, contending starting in Year 3 (i.e., year after next- Spring 2018).  I think playoffs are possible this year, probable next year, but the following year the window opens to win it all.  But when you get to that level, it depends on injuries, which team's goalie is hot and puck luck.  I don't care how good a team is, it's never a lock to win it all.

 

Beyond 7 years the Magic 8 Ball can't tell because it's tough to know if the core stays together and whether the Sabres will get good prospects to backfill the team.

Edited December 7, 2015 by The Big Johnson

[qwksndmonster]

Enough to shell out $9 m for him?

Do I have to decide now or can I wait another 2.5 seasons?

[WildCard]

Oh, it's GoDD.... just stirring the pot.

I should have listened 

[nfreeman]

I think Johnson has it -- you can't say that Eichel, Reinhart and Risto are core members of a Cup contender this year, but they will need to develop into that level within the next couple of years if the Sabres are going to get there.

[WildCard]

Do I have to decide now or can I wait another 2.5 seasons?

I guess the question is, do you envision Kane being irreplaceable? 

[qwksndmonster]

I guess the question is, do you envision Kane being irreplaceable? 

The way our team is currently constructed, absolutely.