TrueBlueGED Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 I see him becoming our Jarret Stoll with a few more points and fewer drug arrests. Pretty much this, although not sure he consistently cracks mid-40s points in today's NHL. 3rd liners these days are more in the low 30s range. I think we as a fan base overrated him some at least in part because he was the antithesis of the typical Darcy forward. Also, while the team was a dumpster fire, he was being fed minutes he's simply unlikely to see now that the talent is significantly better. Sure he was on pace for 20 goals before injury, but he's not going to get 1C minutes and 1st unit power play time regularly, if at all, going forward. So expecting him to continue last year's pace, even if he gets better, is probably setting the bar too high. Plus as others have already said, the 3rd line on a Cup team is hugely important and he'll still be seeing a whole bunch of ice time. It's not a marginalization to put him there. Larsson-Girgensons is a hell of a start to a 3rd line. Quote
Weave Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Pretty much this, although not sure he consistently cracks mid-40s points in today's NHL. 3rd liners these days are more in the low 30s range. I think we as a fan base overrated him some at least in part because he was the antithesis of the typical Darcy forward. Also, while the team was a dumpster fire, he was being fed minutes he's simply unlikely to see now that the talent is significantly better. Sure he was on pace for 20 goals before injury, but he's not going to get 1C minutes and 1st unit power play time regularly, if at all, going forward. So expecting him to continue last year's pace, even if he gets better, is probably setting the bar too high. Plus as others have already said, the 3rd line on a Cup team is hugely important and he'll still be seeing a whole bunch of ice time. It's not a marginalization to put him there. Larsson-Girgensons is a hell of a start to a 3rd line. I was thinking right about 40 points. IMO he's got more offensive upside than most 3rd liners. Quote
bunomatic Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 I'll call it now. Girgs has a big game tonight vs. Tampa. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Before he was injured he was on pace for 20 40 60 on the worst non expansion team in modern history. All at 20yo. All at center. I thought his trajectory/ performance was exceeding expectations.Minor quibble, but how was he on pace for 20-40-60 if he got hurt 61 games in with a stat line of 15 G and 15 A? Quote
nfreeman Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Minor quibble, but how was he on pace for 20-40-60 if he got hurt 61 games in with a stat line of 15 G and 15 A? THAT just happened. Quote
3putt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 Minor quibble, but how was he on pace for 20-40-60 if he got hurt 61 games in with a stat line of 15 G and 15 A?Not minor at all. Saw the projection in a few different articles. At the time of his injury he was getting more assist per game so the projections were based on that rate continuing, and at a higher rate than goals per game. But even if we say 20 20 40 for a 20 yo, center, with international/ Olympic experience and an all star game (Latvian vote taken into consideration ), I think that projects much higher than 3C. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Not minor at all. Saw the projection in a few different articles. At the time of his injury he was getting more assist per game so the projections were based on that rate continuing, and at a higher rate than goals per game. But even if we say 20 20 40 for a 20 yo, center, with international/ Olympic experience and an all star game (Latvian vote taken into consideration ), I think that projects much higher than 3C.I certainly agree that his last year was impressive, and I hope to see him take another step forward this year like he seems to have done every year since we drafted him. Quote
3putt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 I certainly agree that his last year was impressive, and I hope to see him take another step forward this year like he seems to have done every year since we drafted him.But I guess that is the ultimate question. DB has established two preferred pairs and is working all the other pieces around them. Why is Z not part of a third "pair" or at a minimum the focus of individual development like Samson? Maybe that was what the talk was about, but I don't see them valuing him as a core asset. The LA and Chicago model is a core six and interchangeable parts along the way. Is he one of those interchangeable parts? Or is the core 8 deep? Just haven't gotten a read on the value they place on him under TM. Quote
Taro T Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 But I guess that is the ultimate question. DB has established two preferred pairs and is working all the other pieces around them. Why is Z not part of a third "pair" or at a minimum the focus of individual development like Samson? Maybe that was what the talk was about, but I don't see them valuing him as a core asset. The LA and Chicago model is a core six and interchangeable parts along the way. Is he one of those interchangeable parts? Or is the core 8 deep? Just haven't gotten a read on the value they place on him under TM. Seems they haven't figured out if he should be top 6 or part of a 3rd core w/ ???. My gut feel is he does end up a part of the "new core" as a more physical Jochen Hecht. 18-22-40, wearing an A in a primarily 3rd line wing role w/ occasional 1/2 W & 2/3 C duty as situations dictate. Could even see how he's viewed by Sabre fans as Jochen was - great until he gets a contract that puts more value on his "intangibles" than the typical 40 point guy gets - and then becoming a whipping boy for not "earning" his money w/ 1st/2nd line production. (Even though the deal will be equivalent to what a 2nd liner gets.) Quote
pi2000 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) Apparently DB and Girgs had a heart to heart. Bylsma has said expect to see primary pairs, I.e. Eichel/Kane and ROR/Ennis. But Girgs has no pair, no defined role. I think he is a hell of lot more valuable long term than Ennis. I also think he will be the better player. So what becomes of Zemgus? I am curious to hear others thoughts. Perhaps I am overvaluing him and he is fodder for GMTM to move. After all he isn't one of Murray's guys. He's a faster more skilled version of Paul Gaustad, and that's what DB wants out of him. He was a bit out of his element on the first line, tried to play too much of a finesse game instead of just getting in hard on the forecheck and creating havoc to open up space for Ennis/O'Reilley to operate. I imagine the conversation was about his role and how DB wants to him play no matter where he slots him. That said, Reinhart has consistently been first guy in on the forecheck and creating a net front presence. That's what DB wants on the first line with O'Reilly and Ennis. I would image Zemgus will get another shot at it soon as IMO Reinhart just isn't there physically yet to fill that role long term. Edited October 17, 2015 by pi2000 Quote
LastPommerFan Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 we need a better abbreviation than DB Quote
3putt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 Seems they haven't figured out if he should be top 6 or part of a 3rd core w/ ???. My gut feel is he does end up a part of the "new core" as a more physical Jochen Hecht. 18-22-40, wearing an A in a primarily 3rd line wing role w/ occasional 1/2 W & 2/3 C duty as situations dictate. Could even see how he's viewed by Sabre fans as Jochen was - great until he gets a contract that puts more value on his "intangibles" than the typical 40 point guy gets - and then becoming a whipping boy for not "earning" his money w/ 1st/2nd line production. (Even though the deal will be equivalent to what a 2nd liner gets.) Why are we assuming he is a typical 40 point guy? At this stage in his career, could he be more? I know there is the pair of second overall's, but it seems plausible he could be a 25 25/30 guy with the right development. Is that third line stuff? Those are ROR type numbers. Quote
Taro T Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Why are we assuming he is a typical 40 point guy? At this stage in his career, could he be more? I know there is the pair of second overall's, but it seems plausible he could be a 25 25/30 guy with the right development. Is that third line stuff? Those are ROR type numbers. I went there, expecting him primarily to fit into a 3rd line role. If he plays w/ 2nd liners, I'd expect him to be high 40's and mid-50's w/ top liners. Quote
JJFIVEOH Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 The guy's had four games playing time on a legitimate team. Isn't it a little early for this just because he had a long talk with Goober? Quote
qwksndmonster Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 The guy's had four games playing time on a legitimate team. Isn't it a little early for this just because he had a long talk with Goober?Too early to discuss his role/development trajectory? I think Zemgus is going to be our Taves light. He won't have the elite passing or offensive instincts, but the defense, leadership, and skating is all there. Quote
That Aud Smell Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 please, no one is going to run Murray out of town All he has to do is give them some puppy dog eyes and say in a sultry voice "zero ****s given" and they will all be back to fighting over who gets to sit next to him during his HOF ceremony speech. This board is a weird place sometimes. we need a better abbreviation than DB I'm partial to Hot Daniel. Quote
JJFIVEOH Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Too early to discuss his role/development trajectory? I think Zemgus is going to be our Taves light. He won't have the elite passing or offensive instincts, but the defense, leadership, and skating is all there. Too early to consider the possibility that he's not everything we'd hoped for. I suppose it's something intriguing to discuss, I just don't see four games and a talk with coach as a basis for anything yet. Quote
Stoner Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 we need a better abbreviation than DB I keep reading it as DirtBag. DD will always be Ghost, or double Ds. Quote
JJFIVEOH Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 we need a better abbreviation than DB I'll stick with Goober. B-) Quote
sicknfla Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Too early to consider the possibility that he's not everything we'd hoped for. I suppose it's something intriguing to discuss, I just don't see four games and a talk with coach as a basis for anything yet. I must be missing something because, to me, Zemgus is the least of our concerns. Quote
qwksndmonster Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Too early to consider the possibility that he's not everything we'd hoped for. I suppose it's something intriguing to discuss, I just don't see four games and a talk with coach as a basis for anything yet.It's just discussion. Nobody is making a final judgement on Zemgus. Quote
LastPommerFan Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Whatever happened to Disco Dan? It can be our memorial to GoDd Quote
inkman Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 Before he was injured he was on pace for 20 40 60 on the worst non expansion team in modern history. All at 20yo. All at center. I thought his trajectory/ performance was exceeding expectations. All I was referencing was the chuck Norris type lore he had as the season went on. Interesting ...not Kopitar? \sarcasm? Quote
qwksndmonster Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 All I was referencing was the chuck Norris type lore he had as the season went on. That's true, you do seem to hate fun. Quote
3putt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Posted October 17, 2015 All I was referencing was the chuck Norris type lore he had as the season went on. \sarcasm? Similar type of game. Quote
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