Sabres Defensemen -- Omnibus Preseason Thread

[nfreeman]

OK, with the recent news about Bogo and Gorges being "week-to-week" with injuries, and the general uncertainty surrounding the D, I thought it would make sense to create a dedicated thread.

 

If Bogo and Gorges can't go on opening night, that leaves:

 

Risto

Franson

Pysyk

Weber

Coco

Donovan

McCabe

Rudy

Guhle

 

I'll predict the starting 6 on opening night will be (again, assuming no Bogo or Gorges):

 

Risto-Franson

Pysyk-Weber

Guhle-Coco

 

Also:  here's a pretty interesting article on Guhle from Garth:  http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=6

 

In my opinion, he is a better skater than Ottawa's Erik Karlsson. I's no slight to Karlsson who is one of the best skating D-men in the NHL. Guhle is a similar skater who is heavier on his edges. Where Karlsson tends to avoid contact, Guhle seeks it out. Guhle's skating stride is explosive and powerful. Think Drew Doughty. Yes, I said Drew Doughty.

 

 

 

[LGR4GM]

Ghule is not ready for NHL game action outside of a very short term tryout.

[darksabre]

Ghule is not ready for NHL game action outside of a very short term tryout.

Man, I don't know. I think he's looked pretty good in preseason. I'm curious to see how he looks in regular season action if they decide to give him a look. He might be good enough for third pair minutes with a break now and then. 

[Weave]

OK, with the recent news about Bogo and Gorges being "week-to-week" with injuries, and the general uncertainty surrounding the D, I thought it would make sense to create a dedicated thread.

 

If Bogo and Gorges can't go on opening night, that leaves:

 

Risto

Franson

Pysyk

Weber

Coco

Donovan

McCabe

Rudy

Guhle

 

I'll predict the starting 6 on opening night will be (again, assuming no Bogo or Gorges):

 

Risto-Franson

Pysyk-Weber

Guhle-Coco

 

Also:  here's a pretty interesting article on Guhle from Garth:  http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=6

 

 

Oh my.

 

*fans self*

[LGR4GM]

Man, I don't know. I think he's looked pretty good in preseason. I'm curious to see how he looks in regular season action if they decide to give him a look. He might be good enough for third pair minutes with a break now and then. 

no

[Derrico]

Why does everyone insist on Guhle getting a look before McCabe?  Is this just based on the assumption McCabe won't be healthy in time for the season?  If not, McCabe has had way more development and is way bigger and stronger to handle the game than an 18 year old rook.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Derrico

[darksabre]

no

Cool. 

[LGR4GM]

Ghule skates well, that's great. So how's he look off the puck? What's he look like down low when a 200lb vet starts leaning on him? How's he look under pressure? What's his passing like? Is his positioning off? What happens after 10-20 games when teams know his style of play? Will we see a repeat of Tyler Myers where he gets figured out? What happens on the road when you get last change and suddenly Kessel and Crosby get double shifted against him? How's his one on one skill looking?

 

Ghule has skill and I like him. He is a great pick in the 2nd round. He isn't NHL ready.  He needs at least another year in juniors.

I just watched 3 years of a 18yr olds being fed to the wolves, I have no desire to see it again.

[darksabre]

Ghule skates well, that's great. So how's he look off the puck? What's he look like down low when a 200lb vet starts leaning on him? How's he look under pressure? What's his passing like? Is his positioning off? What happens after 10-20 games when teams know his style of play? Will we see a repeat of Tyler Myers where he gets figured out? What happens on the road when you get last change and suddenly Kessel and Crosby get double shifted against him? How's his one on one skill looking?

 

Ghule has skill and I like him. He is a great pick in the 2nd round. He isn't NHL ready.  He needs at least another year in juniors.

I just watched 3 years of a 18yr olds being fed to the wolves, I have no desire to see it again.

So you want to send him back to Juniors despite having provided no answers to the questions you want to use to evaluate him? Come on man. You can do better than that. 

[LGR4GM]

So you want to send him back to Juniors despite having provided no answers to the questions you want to use to evaluate him? Come on man. You can do better than that. 

His positioning is off when he doesn't have the puck, floats at times and takes bad angles to plays at others. His passing is decent but the speed of the game sometimes makes him miss them.  Down low he gets pushed around more than I like from an NHL defender and it will get worse in the regular season. He is fast on his skates but his decision making under pressure is suspect.  I have witnessed him just toss a puck away on several plays when pressured. How the d4rk am I supposed to answer the question of how teams will react to him in 10-20 games? You want my guess?  They will start taking away his time and space and that will cause him to panic because he doesn't have NHL reaction time and decision making yet. His one on one skills are inconsistent, sometimes he does well other times he gets beat. Kessel and Crosby have enough talent and skill to burn the kid even with his outstanding skating.  He is not strong enough either. 

 

You're right I can do better than that but honestly this board hasn't done better than that in a long time outside of the ROR thread. No one has bothered to present any real argument as to why he should be here other than "well we have injuries."  Yea we also have a GM who's  job it is to fill those injuries with actual NHL players and not 18 yr old kids who are being put in a position to fail.

[nfreeman]

Ghule skates well, that's great. So how's he look off the puck? What's he look like down low when a 200lb vet starts leaning on him? How's he look under pressure? What's his passing like? Is his positioning off? What happens after 10-20 games when teams know his style of play? Will we see a repeat of Tyler Myers where he gets figured out? What happens on the road when you get last change and suddenly Kessel and Crosby get double shifted against him? How's his one on one skill looking?

 

Ghule has skill and I like him. He is a great pick in the 2nd round. He isn't NHL ready.  He needs at least another year in juniors.

I just watched 3 years of a 18yr olds being fed to the wolves, I have no desire to see it again.

 

You are probably right.  If 9 games gives them enough time to get back either Bogo or Gorges, though, I wouldn't mind having a look at him. 

 

It's also important to consider the alternatives -- we're not talking about keeping an all-star in the press box in favor of Guhle.  We're talking about scratching Coco, Donovan, etc.

[LGR4GM]

9 games is the max for Ghule, period.

[TrueBlueGED]

My general philosophy is it's better to let prospects develop a year or two even if they seem like they're playing well in preseason. I haven't really watched much preseason hockey (probably a couple of periods total, rest is radio listening) so I'm not in a position to give a detailed description of Guhle's play. But I do know that the number of late-2nd round picks who are ready to step into the NHL in their draft year are few and far between, and even if we hit an outside the park home run and Guhle is a stud several years down the road, I'd be utterly shocked if he truly belonged in the NHL this year. Everything I know about 18 year olds in the NHL and the development curve for defensemen tells me he should go back to junior.

[ubkev]

9 games is the max for Ghule, period.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

[darksabre]

His positioning is off when he doesn't have the puck, floats at times and takes bad angles to plays at others. His passing is decent but the speed of the game sometimes makes him miss them.  Down low he gets pushed around more than I like from an NHL defender and it will get worse in the regular season. He is fast on his skates but his decision making under pressure is suspect.  I have witnessed him just toss a puck away on several plays when pressured. How the ###### d4rk am I supposed to answer the question of how teams will react to him in 10-20 games? You want my guess?  They will start taking away his time and space and that will cause him to panic because he doesn't have NHL reaction time and decision making yet. His one on one skills are inconsistent, sometimes he does well other times he gets beat. Kessel and Crosby have enough talent and skill to burn the kid even with his outstanding skating.  He is not strong enough either. 

 

You're right I can do better than that but honestly this board hasn't done better than that in a long ###### time outside of the ROR thread. No one has bothered to present any real argument as to why he should be here other than "well we have injuries."  Yea we also have a ###### GM who's  job it is to fill those injuries with actual NHL players and not 18 yr old kids who are being put in a position to fail.

You need to cool your jets. I'm not the one who responded to a post with "No" like a dingus. You want to criticize my opinion, that's fine. But don't act like contributing to the conversation in a meaningful manner is some kind of chore for you. 

 

Grab a Snickers. 

[TrueBlueGED]

You are probably right.  If 9 games gives them enough time to get back either Bogo or Gorges, though, I wouldn't mind having a look at him. 

 

It's also important to consider the alternatives -- we're not talking about keeping an all-star in the press box in favor of Guhle.  We're talking about scratching Coco, Donovan, etc.

 

In this case, I actually don't think it is. As exciting as it is to be cheering for wins, I think we need to be careful about putting the cart before the horse--this year is still much more about development than about contending. If going back to juniors is better for Guhle's development, then that's where he should go, even if it would be better for the Sabres for him to be here over the likes of Donovan.

[LGR4GM]

You need to cool your jets. I'm not the one who responded to a post with "No" like a dingus. You want to criticize my opinion, that's fine. But don't act like contributing to the conversation in a meaningful manner is some kind of chore for you. 

 

Grab a Snickers. 

Back up your opinion then. Ghule should not play more than 9 nhl games, period.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

I am a Sith Lord.

[darksabre]

Back up your opinion then. Ghule should not play more than 9 nhl games, period.

I am a Sith Lord.

Can you not read? You're objecting to me saying that I want to see how he looks if they give him that look. I don't need to back that up with anything. 

[LGR4GM]

Can you not read? You're objecting to me saying that I want to see how he looks if they give him that look. I don't need to back that up with anything. 

Oh I forgot, I am so sorry. You want to criticize my opinion, that's fine. But don't act like contributing to the conversation in a meaningful manner is some kind of chore for you.

[Iron Crotch]

I agree that Guhle can skate like anything, but I DVR'd the two preseason games that were on NHL Network and if you watch carefully you'll see that Guhle is lost in his own zone at times.  He was on the ice for two goals against in the Toronto and Ottawa games and looked really bad on those goals.  I see a kid who has a ton of NHL potential, but no way should he be fast tracked to the NHL when guys like Rudy, McCabe and Donovan already have NHL experience.

[shrader]

Why does everyone insist on Guhle getting a look before McCabe?  Is this just based on the assumption McCabe won't be healthy in time for the season?  If not, McCabe has had way more development and is way bigger and stronger to handle the game than an 18 year old rook.

 

If you're going to do it with Guhle, you have to do it right now.  They can't bring him back once they send him back to juniors.  There's more flexibility with McCabe.  If they keep Guhle up, he's playing.  There's no sense in keeping him around to sit in the press box.

[Mustache of God]

With the injuries piling up I think Guhle will get a few NHL games with our 3rd pairing. Just how many games he plays will depend on how he handles himself, we won't really know until we see him in action when it really matters. Yes, Crosby/Kessel types will burn this kid everyday, I trust our coaches to not have them out there against the elite talent of our opponents. 9 games take us up to October 27th so without any further setbacks the injuries should be healed up by then and he can be returned to juniors. 

 

My hypothesis is that he'll see 3-5 NHL games before McCabe/Ruhweedal(sp?)/Bogo/and Gorges are back. Murray is going to tell him the same thing he told Sam Reinhardt, "you've seen which parts of your game needs improvement, go work on them and I'll see you next year." I'm liking what I've seen from him so far but I will eat a hat* if he sticks around longer than 9 games.

 

*sandwich.

[inkman]

Oh my.

 

*fans self*

:lol:

[darksabre]

Oh I forgot, I am so sorry. You want to criticize my opinion, that's fine. But don't act like contributing to the conversation in a meaningful manner is some kind of chore for you.

I wasn't criticizing you, I was trying to have a conversation with you. You're the one who decided to dismiss me with one word. Don't be dense. 

[inkman]

You need to cool your jets. I'm not the one who responded to a post with "No" like a dingus. You want to criticize my opinion, that's fine. But don't act like contributing to the conversation in a meaningful manner is some kind of chore for you.

 

Grab a Snickers.

Does liger turn from Marsha into machete or napoleon dynamite into joe pesci? Edited September 29, 2015 by inkman