Patrick Kane: [Updated] D.A. Decides Not to Prosecute; NHL Determines Claims "Unfounded"

[Sabresince70]

 

Evidence "bag" - paper, sealed with evidence tape (person collecting signs) chain of evidence is kept ON BAG. Bag would need to be KEPT (or at least should be kept) as record, even if items placed in new container. (plastic is usually used for "dry" items, paper for wet, so that mold, and changes to evidence does not occur - we are told blood, etc... never goes in plastic. A "rape kit " is.... 

[Johnny DangerFace]

true but why even qualify it at all?  No one anywhere has disputed she left Kane's and went to the hospital.

 

well someone has

[Sabresince70]

 

this is basically the same as we use in PA, the box is completely sealed with tape. Then the same process is followed. 

[JJFIVEOH]

true but why even qualify it at all?  No one anywhere has disputed she left Kane's and went to the hospital.

 

You don't understand my point, and I don't understand why it's such a big deal to you that I brought it up. How about we just drop it and leave it at that. 

[LGR4GM]

You don't understand my point, and I don't understand why it's such a big deal to you that I brought it up. How about we just drop it and leave it at that. 

Would you please tell me your point?  Right now it seems like your point is we don't know if the woman actually went to the hospital and she could be lying. That is why I am trying to ascertain your point.

[Taro T]

 

this is basically the same as we use in PA, the box is completely sealed with tape. Then the same process is followed.

 

Thank you for the info.

 

If the contents of a box like this would get opened and repacked, would the entire box go with it or just the coc info from the top panel?

[Sabresince70]

Does anyone know who takes custody of kit in Erie county? For instance, If I take a complainant to the hospital (or meet one there), the nurse (specifically certified to obtain the evidence) completes the kit, signs it and gives it to me. Our SOP states I must give it to PSP (Penn. State Police) to go to their crime lab (there would now be three names on the box).  If it ever comes back to court, the original box (and marked by who opened it, would now be part of the "evidence". If something that contained evidence was ever discarded, then yes, someone would have screwed up. 

 

Think of it this way - you should be able to lay the evidence and its containers out and create a time line of who had it and  who opened it, from collection to trial. (Our department requires that every signature is followed by date/time and initialed by the receiver and giver. So the victim's initials would be with the nurses signature. The nurse with the first officer's, and so on...

 

An empty bag with nothing but a name on it would be real easy to "forge" . I have a couple dozen of each bag in my patrol bag now. Getting someone elses signature and initials on it, not so easy.

 

 

If the contents of a box like this would get opened and repacked, would the entire box go with it or just the coc info from the top panel? 

We keep the entire box. (I can't speak for NY). The way it was taught at our academy was simple - once evidence is collected EVERYTHING in the container (there are tubes for needles, envelopes for items, etc...) and the CONTAINER ITSELF is now evidence.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Sabresince70

[JJFIVEOH]

Would you please tell me your point?  Right now it seems like your point is we don't know if the woman actually went to the hospital and she could be lying. That is why I am trying to ascertain your point.

 

Perhaps there wouldn't have been any failed lines of communication if you didn't have this obsession with this notion that I'm inferring she is a liar. You've been on my case from the beginning every time I give the slightest indication that maybe Kane isn't guilty. It's clouding your judgement when you won't be happy until I say what you want me to say. It really is as simple as saying IF she went to the hospital THEN there would be a rape kit which would indicate somebody has the evidence in their possession. Don't make it more difficult that it needs to be, because it's not. 

[Taro T]

Does anyone know who takes custody of kit in Erie county? For instance, If I take a complainant to the hospital (or meet one there), the nurse (specifically certified to obtain the evidence) completes the kit, signs it and gives it to me. Our SOP states I must give it to PSP (Penn. State Police) to go to there crime lab (there would now be three names on the box).  If it ever comes back to court, the original box (and marked by who opened it, would now be part of the "evidence". If something that contained evidence was ever discarded, then yes, someone would have screwed up. 

 

Think of it this way - you should be able to lay the evidence and its containers out and create a time line of who had it and  who opened it, from collection to trial. (Our department requires that every signature is followed by date/time and initialed by the receiver and giver. So the victim's initials would be with the nurses signature. The nurse with the first officer's, and so on...

 

An empty bag with nothing but a name on it would be real easy to "forge" . I have a couple dozen of each bag in my patrol bag now. Getting someone elses signature and initials on it, not so easy.

 

We keep the entire box. (I can't speak for NY). The way it was taught at our academy was simple - once evidence is collected EVERYTHING in the container (there are tubes for needles, envelopes for items, etc...) and the CONTAINER ITSELF is now evidence.

Thank you again for the info. Good stuff. :thumbsup:

[Sabresince70]

Glad to have something to offer - wish it could all be about the sport though. I am sure the lawyers on here from NY can provide more specific info on NY procedure. It is different everywhere I suppose.  I think having a bag (and I confess I have not seen the lawyers statement in full), is a bit disturbing. Anyone can easily get a bag (they are available on line and can be purchased without LE ID), but I believe it would be very unlikely that someone not involved in LE in some way to have one. (That being said, my daughter has an evidence tube that she uses for a pen case.....

Edited September 23, 2015 by Sabresince70

[LGR4GM]

Perhaps there wouldn't have been any failed lines of communication if you didn't have this obsession with this notion that I'm inferring she is a liar. You've been on my case from the beginning every time I give the slightest indication that maybe Kane isn't guilty. It's clouding your judgement when you won't be happy until I say what you want me to say. It really is as simple as saying IF she went to the hospital THEN there would be a rape kit which would indicate somebody has the evidence in their possession. Don't make it more difficult that it needs to be, because it's not. 

Actually, I have given you the benefit of the doubt repeatedly.  I am still giving it to you.  You are using suggestive language when you say if, supposedly, could.  These all suggest you do not believe or have doubts about the veracity of the woman's claim that she left Kane's and went to the hospital.  You have also suggested that it was possible that a "family doctor" could have done the rape kit. 

 

Nothing is clouding my judgement, but I personally think you are deflecting because your judgement is.  I have no idea if the woman or Kane is telling the truth.  We do not have enough facts. However according to the facts we do have, she called someone and went to the hospital after leaving Kane's house.  Why you are choosing to use suggestive language again seems odd.  You said "if she went to the hospital" instead of "when she went to the hospital".  Those sentences read very differently.  In one you are doubting her, the news, the reports etc... but in the other you would not be.  After questioning you several times it has become apparent that you feel her story doesn't add up.  That is fine, but the parts you are questioning seems odd to me.

 

I'm not obsessed.  I have tried harder than I normally would in this thread to be very understanding of most view points and asking countless times for clarification from posters.  You keep questioning her story and specifically the chain of events of Kane's house to the hospital.  If you feel that strongly that I have overstepped, report me to a mod.  Personally I think I have actually been quite calm about the entire thing.

[JJFIVEOH]

It's obvious you think I have some sort of agenda against this woman, no matter how many times I suggest otherwise. So why bother even continuing this discussion............................. You're not going to take my word for it. 

[Johnny DangerFace]

Yup everyone has an agenda against you. Can't possibly be an IF THEN has a clear logical inference

[LGR4GM]

It's obvious you think I have some sort of agenda against this woman, no matter how many times I suggest otherwise. So why bother even continuing this discussion............................. You're not going to take my word for it. 

JJ, you are using the exact language I just quoted.  That language implies according to all the laws of standard English that there is doubt over what comes next. I don't know what to tell you, you are suggesting by your language this woman is not being truthful or something else occurred.

[JJFIVEOH]

See?

You spend way too much time focusing on what you hope I'd say rather than on what I specifically say. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[LGR4GM]

I have never said you have an agenda against her. 

 

See?

So you do not think that using if, could, and supposedly is anything other than normal?

[JJFIVEOH]

I have never said you have an agenda against her. 

 

So you do not think that using if, could, and supposedly is anything other than normal?

 

When used as a conditional statement like 'If she went to the hospital then there was a rape kit exam' to confirm there is evidence to prove either side............ then yes it is normal.

 

When used in reference to news stories in which NOBODY knows the exact details........... then yes it is normal.

 

Should I lie and say there was a rape kit exam if she didn't go to the hospital?

 

Should I lie and quote past news stories as fact when they are not? 

[LGR4GM]

See?

You spend way too much time focusing on what you hope I'd say rather than on what I specifically say. 

Alright fine, I have tried being nice. 

When used as a conditional statement like 'If she went to the hospital then there was a rape kit exam' to confirm there is evidence to prove either side............ then yes it is normal.

 

When used in reference to news stories in which NOBODY knows the exact details........... then yes it is normal.

 

Should I lie and say there was a rape kit exam if she didn't go to the hospital?

 

Should I lie and quote past news stories as fact when they are not? 

Why wouldn't you just say went she went to the hospital and they did the rape kit (insert rest of sentence).  Why did you qualify it as if it was in doubt.  That was all I was asking. All you had to say was, "Oh LGR, I didn't mean that, I was just saying "if she went, then there is a rape kit so x, y, z.  Instead I am apparently the devil out to get you.

[LastPommerFan]

[shrader]

 

Evidence "bag" - paper, sealed with evidence tape (person collecting signs) chain of evidence is kept ON BAG. Bag would need to be KEPT (or at least should be kept) as record, even if items placed in new container. (plastic is usually used for "dry" items, paper for wet, so that mold, and changes to evidence does not occur - we are told blood, etc... never goes in plastic. A "rape kit " is....

Wouldn't something wet then make the bag wet too, making it more likely to break?

[JJFIVEOH]

Alright fine, I have tried being nice. 

Why wouldn't you just say went she went to the hospital and they did the rape kit (insert rest of sentence).  Why did you qualify it as if it was in doubt.  That was all I was asking. All you had to say was, "Oh LGR, I didn't mean that, I was just saying "if she went, then there is a rape kit so x, y, z.  Instead I am apparently the ###### devil out to get you.

 

Well, you're certainly not obsessed. 

[shrader]

No. I was suggesting that authorities would have (should have) evidence from the rape kit if she went to the hospital.

 

I used the term 'if' and not 'since' because nobody knows for sure that she actually went.

That you would even offer up the possibility that she never went to the hospital is why people are taking issue with you here. It is an asinine option to even bring up yet you continue to mention it.

[LGR4GM]

Guess I should be banned.  Dear mods, please ban me for my inappropriate posts from the last 3 pages of this thread.

[JJFIVEOH]

That you would even offer up the possibility that she never went to the hospital is why people are taking issue with you here. It is an asinine option to even bring up yet you continue to mention it.

 

Sigh............................ 

 

I'm not the one that keeps bringing it up, you might want to talk to LGR about that. 

 

I have no reason to imply that she didn't go to the hospital. It's equally as asinine for you to put words into my mouth and then bitch at me for what you hoped I said. 

[Sabresince70]

 

 

Wouldn't something wet then make the bag wet too, making it more likely to break? 

It does get messy, but when it gets to the lab/ final destination it is hung to dry. If it is something that is saturated, and "fresh" in our department the lab is going to come out and collect anyway - they have there own rules. We had a double homicide a few years back, nothing in the house was collected by us. rags that were found outside the house, that had been used to wipe off hands/knives, was. They went in paper. All clothing that might have "fluids" would be placed in paper. It also was explained that it is less likely to smear on other parts of the item. We take photos and show where stains/fluid are, then we try to fold (if needed) so that the stain doesn't touch anything else. Then place in bag(paper). The fluid dries without touching another part of the clothing (in theory, anyway) better.