Patrick Kane: [Updated] D.A. Decides Not to Prosecute; NHL Determines Claims "Unfounded"

[That Aud Smell]

With respect to the idea that "rape culture" is a loaded, misleading, erroneous term meant to drive a false narrative. 

 

http://gawker.com/elite-boarding-school-student-accused-of-rape-says-seni-1724547400

 

Now, of course, this former student's actions are being rejected by the laws of the land and potentially punished by a local criminal justice system.

 

The fact that we have those laws and systems in place is not inconsistent with the idea that there exists at that uber elite prep school a culture that will tend to normalize rape and make it pervasive.

 

Also, it just occurred to me: Who here remembers "beggin' " as a high school phrase that used to get used by boys to describe girls?

[drnkirishone]

Rape culture is a political catchphrase to hid the real discussion that should take place. Which is sexual expression. America is a sexually repressed country closer to some of the religious law countries. Look at the sex ed programs in schools across the country

[That Aud Smell]

Rape culture is a political catchphrase to hid the real discussion that should take place. Which is sexual expression. America is a sexually repressed country closer to some of the religious law countries. Look at the sex ed programs in schools across the country

 

Now there's an interesting angle. 

 

That bizarre Duggar fiasco has prompted some talk of how repression tends to pervert what might otherwise be a normal development.

[WildCard]

Right. That is what people believe happens. But we know that a large number of rape cases occur with people who know each other, with people who wouldn't consider the other person a "bad man", or deranged, or a threat. You could be married to your rapist for years and still believe they are a good person afterwards. It happens. 

 

Rape is something normal people are capable of committing. And something that normal people are capable of being victims of. 

Seemingly normal people are capable of committing and being the victim of many things. If they commit a crime as heinous as rape or murder, they are in the minority of people of who do that, and aren't, by definition, normal

Where did I say this?

You're arguing a small minority based on direct search results from one site. 

 

But what you fail to understand is that just because something isn't classified as "rape porn" or something equally violent, or that it isn't directly searched for, doesn't mean it doesn't contain elements that drive psychological tendencies in the sexual desire of men towards violence and force. 

 

You have to see to understand. When some of the most popular pornography series are deliberate portrayals of "victimization of the innocent" those things feed the "rape culture" that you deny exists. 

 

We've been painting a picture since the Girls Gone Wild days that women and girls want to be exploited. That they want to be taken advantage of. That they want to be used. There's no way that this mentality doesn't influence young men, especially in a world where these ideas are accessed with greater ease than ever before. 

 

 

You created two spheres of categories, what is categorized as "rape porn" and subsequently what isn't, so all other types of porn. You then said that which doesn't fall in the former group may have violent sexual desires, leading to all forms of porn having violent sexual desires. 

Rape culture is a political catchphrase to hid the real discussion that should take place. Which is sexual expression. America is a sexually repressed country closer to some of the religious law countries. Look at the sex ed programs in schools across the country

A good point. Women are just as capable of expressing themselves sexually as men, but many of us are taught they aren't, and indeed some believe women don't have sexual exploration or enjoy other forms of desires. 

Edited August 18, 2015 by WildCard

[darksabre]

Seemingly normal people are capable of committing and being the victim of many things. If they commit a crime as heinous as rape or murder, they are in the minority of people of who do that, and aren't, by definition, normal

 

This is where we disconnect. You believe rape is always intentional. Rape does not require intent. It only requires a certain violation of conduct, which in most cases is consent of the other party to a certain act. It as absolutely possible to do something that another person does not wish to consent to but might do so under certain feelings of duress. This is why so many acts of rape occur between people in relationships. One party might be under the impression that consent is implied, and commit an act that, upon further reflection could be considered rape by the other party. These situations are common and very difficult. They are why so many instances of rape go unreported. And why rape is not a cut and dry issue, an act committed by people who share the motivation of murderers and other violent criminals. 

[That Aud Smell]

Rape does not require intent. 

 

Hmm. I'm not so sure.

[darksabre]

Seemingly normal people are capable of committing and being the victim of many things. If they commit a crime as heinous as rape or murder, they are in the minority of people of who do that, and aren't, by definition, normal

You created two spheres of categories, what is categorized as "rape porn" and subsequently what isn't, so all other types of porn. You then said that which doesn't fall in the former group may have violent sexual desires, leading to all forms of porn having violent sexual desires. 

A good point. Women are just as capable of expressing themselves sexually as men, but many of us are taught they aren't, and indeed some believe women don't have sexual exploration or enjoy other forms of desires. 

Those are your words in the definitive, not mine. And your previous portion of the sentence shows that you understood what I said, by using "may have." 

Hmm. I'm not so sure.

 

What about the rest of my post? 

[nfreeman]

Oy. That first set of air quotes.

 

But I see where you're coming from. I accept that we disagree on a fairly fundamental level when it comes to stuff like this.

 

 

I do not. I suspect we would have differing definitions and understandings of where and when (and how often) such acts might occur.

 

True story, and just one example of what I think are many: There's a guy I used to skate with. He's a little older than me. Good guy. Smart guy. Higher-degree having sort of guy. Good Dad. Devoted Husband, albeit a little old school in the way he interacted with his high school sweetheart. I learned from my wife that their marriage almost (*almost*) fell apart because they had an incident (actually more than one) of what the wife considered rape within their marriage. Word was the guy was devastated by her accusations, once she came forward with them. Not only devastated, but confused. Bewildered even. I saw that family at church earlier this summer. All 5 of them. God bless them all.

 

 

Well, I agree that woman X might consider act ABC to be rape, while man Y doesn't -- but I don't believe that they both can be right, and I don't believe that woman X's view is necessarily correct.

 

I think there can only be one definition of rape:  did the accused physically force the accuser to have sex?

 

Regarding your anecdote:  I completely accept that the husband may have committed rape based on my definition above -- and may not have believed that it was rape because it occurred between husband and wife.  If so, what he did was unacceptable and criminal.  BUT -- we'd kinda need to know what specifically happened to know whether the wife's characterization of the events as rape was correct, right?

 

The bigger point is that when "definition creep" is used to promote a "pervasive and normalized" narrative, the narrative itself loses credibility.

 

With respect to the idea that "rape culture" is a loaded, misleading, erroneous term meant to drive a false narrative. 

 

http://gawker.com/elite-boarding-school-student-accused-of-rape-says-seni-1724547400

 

Now, of course, this former student's actions are being rejected by the laws of the land and potentially punished by a local criminal justice system.

 

The fact that we have those laws and systems in place is not inconsistent with the idea that there exists at that uber elite prep school a culture that will tend to normalize rape and make it pervasive.

 

Also, it just occurred to me: Who here remembers "beggin' " as a high school phrase that used to get used by boys to describe girls?

 

Not sure what your point is here -- while the conquest contest is certainly juvenile and odious, it isn't rape. 

[josie]

God I hate commenting in this thread. I always say too much but get across too little. But I get so exasperated reading it, and asking myself why the hell I keep ruining my day by reading it... 

 

None of you have been a young woman that I'm aware of. Nor have you dated a young man. Nor have you hung out with his friends as the gf. Rape culture is kinda like the term social justice warrior- it has truth to it, but it has taken on a very negative/mockable connotation, and some of the people who try to help it, make it far worse by applying it too liberally.

 

But it is real. It seems very innocent to you. " It's all good fun, no one ACTUALLY acts out violent porn, there's kinkier stuff out there, people know the difference, movies with rape jokes are just jokes and funny, lighten up you uptight b itch."

 

Well, as a woman you learn to walk the line or terrible s hit happens. Constantly protect yourself. You enjoy and laugh at gutsy/provocative jokes, but you also tick in your mind who said them and with what frequency. At parties, you learn to edge out of the room full of dudes that are getting louder and bolder and gropier... a nal comes up and it's "haha she just doesn't know she wants it yet" all innocent harmless fun. You watch over the girls you came with and in my case, have to be mama bear for them more than once. "That girl who has been with a few dudes is just a dirty slut and who cares who screws her. College stuff! Growing pains! Get over it! We don't all do that!"

"What you're describing is just being safe and smart!" Well yes, because I have to do that or the chances of crap happening skyrockets. I shouldn't have to worry about this stuff. Did you have to worry about it to the same extent? Probably not.  

 

"Let's go git some biddies tonight, boys" "Oh dude she's an animal, just give her another beer and she's yours" "She totally let that guy bang her up the ass, no way she'll say no to you" "Look at her f ucking outfit- does that say " don't touch me" to you? Go for it" All stuff I heard every weekend in college and high school. Normal guys, nice guys. Herd mentality sets in and dumb words and dumber actions come to light. 

 

"The only people who make these societal mistakes are devious b astards who hide on street corners and flash children! Not me, not my best friend, we never stuck our d icks in someone who said no so therefore it can't really be a problem unless you're being risky!"

 

That's all such utter bull. 

 

Sports is just a microcosm of the world, a spotlight where you see the influences that result in situations like Kane or Steubenville. It gets the media attention, the articles, the fiery message board debates about the murky depths of morality. 

 

These gents that perpetuate the attitudes and actions that sum up the nebulous term "rape culture" grow up. They stop partying, the realize what idiots they've been, apply some responsibility and stop the "boys will be boys" excuse. But it doesn't stop for some and it doesn't stop the younger guys from continuing on, notching their belts for glory and chuckling it all off as a boozy weekend with the boys. In what world is it ever ok for groups of people to chant the infamous "NO MEANS YES, YES MEANS A NAL" thing? " Hah hah they don't really MEAN it guys, it's just so EDGY and hah hah bros suck my d ick "

"Ahh don't worry about it, he'll grow out of it. He's harmless. We were all stupid once. "

 

Meanwhile I personally know way too many women who were raped/assaulted and didn't say a thing out of embarrassment or fear. And those are the ones who have told me. Most women I know have a story that comes close, and we are just as bad- we shrug it off too. "shouldn't have drank that much. shouldn't have flirted with him. we've been together a while, I guess I should've just let him have it that night". 

 

Rape culture is a political catchphrase to hid the real discussion that should take place. Which is sexual expression. America is a sexually repressed country closer to some of the religious law countries. Look at the sex ed programs in schools across the country

And there's a real point here too I didn't want to get into- if a girl bangs a bunch of guys, she's a w hore. If she won't bang anyone, she's a repressed prude. Guys can be manwhores but it's an eye rolling "oh you" label more than a curl of the lip "oh god diseased being, avoid at all costs". Don't get me started on birth control. 

 

They tell us to be sexual empowered, but I was raised believing I was a w hore if I gave up my virginity before marriage. "No one's gonna buy a cow that gives its milk away for free". Good lord, it's been a mindf***  that I still struggle with. Meanwhile," boys will be boys and screw around and oh well. If it happens don't get her pregnant. She can hold that over you 18 to life." 

Edited August 18, 2015 by Josie914

[WildCard]

This is where we disconnect. You believe rape is always intentional. Rape does not require intent. It only requires a certain violation of conduct, which in most cases is consent of the other party to a certain act. It as absolutely possible to do something that another person does not wish to consent to but might do so under certain feelings of duress. This is why so many acts of rape occur between people in relationships. One party might be under the impression that consent is implied, and commit an act that, upon further reflection could be considered rape by the other party. These situations are common and very difficult. They are why so many instances of rape go unreported. And why rape is not a cut and dry issue, an act committed by people who share the motivation of murderers and other violent criminals. 

What I get from this, is every time I have sex, I might unknowingly be committing rape.

 

Also, you're right, it is not a cut and dry case. Which is why many posters have tried to discuss different plausible scenarios on the Kane case but were called out for victim/slut-shaming and being misogynistic

[LGR4GM]

Well, I agree that woman X might consider act ABC to be rape, while man Y doesn't -- but I don't believe that they both can be right, and I don't believe that woman X's view is necessarily correct.

 

I think there can only be one definition of rape:  did the accused physically force the accuser to have sex?

 

Regarding your anecdote:  I completely accept that the husband may have committed rape based on my definition above -- and may not have believed that it was rape because it occurred between husband and wife.  If so, what he did was unacceptable and criminal.  BUT -- we'd kinda need to know what specifically happened to know whether the wife's characterization of the events as rape was correct, right?

 

The bigger point is that when "definition creep" is used to promote a "pervasive and normalized" narrative, the narrative itself loses credibility.

 

 

Not sure what your point is here -- while the conquest contest is certainly juvenile and odious, it isn't rape. 

No we don't, that's the the thing.

[LTS]

Right. That is what people believe happens. But we know that a large number of rape cases occur with people who know each other, with people who wouldn't consider the other person a "bad man", or deranged, or a threat. You could be married to your rapist for years and still believe they are a good person afterwards. It happens. 

 

Rape is something normal people are capable of committing. And something that normal people are capable of being victims of. 

 

The bees are in the what now?

 

Let me rephrase that and tell me if you agree: "Rape is something a seemingly normal person is capable of committing. And something that normal people are capable of being vicitms of"

 

I find nothing normal about a person who commits rape.  They invalidate themselves from that definition by virtue of their actions.  You can BELIEVE they are a good person as well, but you could also believe in unicorns.

 

Let me say this about porn.

 

The production of legal, violent porn requires complicit males and females. There are those who like violent sex.  This is really no different (other than topic) than the link to violence on TV and video games being blamed for violent actions.

 

While I think it's conceivable that rough sex pornography and violent television may blur the lines for some people I think we can agree that it doesn't do it for ALL people. What you try to say, by using these types of arguments, is that rough sex porn is a problem when it really isn't the problem.  The problem is the flawed mental capacity of the person who views it and their lack of ability to understand the differences between what is on the screen and what occurs in real life.  It's this lack of comprehension that is the problem.  The graphic content may be a trigger but eliminating that content on the basis of a small minority of people is wrong.

 

Which brings me to a few other questions for discussion...

 

The lack of moral compass is a significant problem in this world.  It's not something that society underscores. It works against freedom which is what so many people believe we have or need.  However, this lack of moral compass runs through a few niches of society.  The first, as was mentioned, is in impoverished areas. I'm not qualified to speak to the reasons it happens but I think we can all take a fair shake at some of the more obvious ones. I'm good with just accepting the research.  The second, we also mentioned, is with money and power.  Again, we see, throughout history, that whenever money or power are to be gained or are at risk the line people are willing to cross becomes more blurred.

 

I say this because I think rape is, in some cases, a by product of a niche of societies lack of moral compass.  What I mean is, do we see rape being more prevalent than other crimes inside that same group of people or so we see rape being more prevalent in a group of people who wouldn't also be more inclined to commit other crimes.  This in no way is meant to lessen the significance of rape but rather to say that focusing on one part of the problem may not actually lead to a solution.

 

I would love to go on but I am late for a meeting.  

[darksabre]

What I get from this, is every time I have sex, I might unknowingly be committing rape.

 

Also, you're right, it is not a cut and dry case. Which is why many posters have tried to discuss different plausible scenarios on the Kane case but were called out for victim/slut-shaming and being misogynistic

 

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is you have to be aware of the desires of your partner. You can't take things for granted. Maybe you're an utter gentleman in bed. Maybe you've never gotten so drunk you don't remember what happened that night with that girl. But this stuff happens to a lot of people, and empowering women to say no is something we don't do enough of. And that is the point of the rape culture message. To show other women they aren't alone in how they feel. 

The bees are in the what now?

 

Let me rephrase that and tell me if you agree: "Rape is something a seemingly normal person is capable of committing. And something that normal people are capable of being vicitms of"

 

I find nothing normal about a person who commits rape.  They invalidate themselves from that definition by virtue of their actions.  You can BELIEVE they are a good person as well, but you could also believe in unicorns.

 

Let me say this about porn.

 

The production of legal, violent porn requires complicit males and females. There are those who like violent sex.  This is really no different (other than topic) than the link to violence on TV and video games being blamed for violent actions.

 

While I think it's conceivable that rough sex pornography and violent television may blur the lines for some people I think we can agree that it doesn't do it for ALL people. What you try to say, by using these types of arguments, is that rough sex porn is a problem when it really isn't the problem.  The problem is the flawed mental capacity of the person who views it and their lack of ability to understand the differences between what is on the screen and what occurs in real life.  It's this lack of comprehension that is the problem.  The graphic content may be a trigger but eliminating that content on the basis of a small minority of people is wrong.

 

Which brings me to a few other questions for discussion...

 

The lack of moral compass is a significant problem in this world.  It's not something that society underscores. It works against freedom which is what so many people believe we have or need.  However, this lack of moral compass runs through a few niches of society.  The first, as was mentioned, is in impoverished areas. I'm not qualified to speak to the reasons it happens but I think we can all take a fair shake at some of the more obvious ones. I'm good with just accepting the research.  The second, we also mentioned, is with money and power.  Again, we see, throughout history, that whenever money or power are to be gained or are at risk the line people are willing to cross becomes more blurred.

 

I say this because I think rape is, in some cases, a by product of a niche of societies lack of moral compass.  What I mean is, do we see rape being more prevalent than other crimes inside that same group of people or so we see rape being more prevalent in a group of people who wouldn't also be more inclined to commit other crimes.  This in no way is meant to lessen the significance of rape but rather to say that focusing on one part of the problem may not actually lead to a solution.

 

I would love to go on but I am late for a meeting.  

 

I agree with you in the case of lines being blurred between porn and reality. I think it's a problem, especially among young men who don't fully grasp that delineation. And there are many of them. I'm not advocating anything about the elimination of porn segments. I'm advocating that we talk about it more openly to help young men better understand the delineation that the rest of us see as clear. 

 

I disagree with the "niche society" argument. While there are certain demographics that are perhaps more susceptible to committing rape or being victimized, I don't think it's fair to generalize about those groups. Which I think is what you're doing. 

[That Aud Smell]

The bigger point is that when "definition creep" is used to promote a "pervasive and normalized" narrative, the narrative itself loses credibility.

 

I think all agree (or should) that "rape culture" is a problematic term. Those Wiki terms above are also not precise, but they have value as a starting point of conversation

 

Not sure what your point is here -- while the conquest contest is certainly juvenile and odious, it isn't rape. 

 

*sigh*

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dakxwoVV7yM

 

that sort of "contest" is so clearly part of a rape culture. it's practically a wink-wink rape-a-thon (as it was called in the comments thread).

[3putt]

God I hate commenting in this thread. I always say too much but get across too little. But I get so exasperated reading it, and asking myself why the hell I keep ruining my day by reading it... 

 

None of you have been a young woman that I'm aware of. Nor have you dated a young man. Nor have you hung out with his friends as the gf. Rape culture is kinda like the term social justice warrior- it has truth to it, but it has taken on a very negative/mockable connotation, and some of the people who try to help it, make it far worse by applying it too liberally.

 

But it is real. It seems very innocent to you. It's all good fun, no one ACTUALLY acts out violent porn, there's kinkier stuff out there, people know the difference, movies with rape jokes are just jokes and funny, lighten up you uptight b itch.

 

Well, as a woman you learn to walk the line or terrible s hit happens. Constantly protect yourself. You enjoy and laugh at gutsy/provocative jokes, but you also tick in your mind who said them and with what frequency. At parties, you learn to edge out of the room full of dudes that are getting louder and bolder and gropier... a nal comes up and it's "haha she just doesn't know she wants it yet" all innocent harmless fun. You watch over the girls you came with and in my case, have to be mama bear for them more than once. That girl who has been with a few dudes is just a dirty slut and who cares who screws her. College stuff! Growing pains! Get over it! We don't all do that!

What you're describing is just being safe and smart! Well yes, because I have to do that or the chances of crap happening skyrockets. I shouldn't have to worry about this stuff. Did you have to worry about it to the same extent? Probably not.  

 

"Let's go git some biddies tonight, boys" "Oh dude she's an animal, just give her another beer and she's yours" "She totally let that guy bang her up the ass, no way she'll say no to you" "Look at her f ucking outfit- does that say " don't touch me" to you? Go for it" All stuff I heard every weekend in college and high school. Normal guys, nice guys. Herd mentality sets in and dumb words and dumber actions come to light. 

 

The only people who make these societal mistakes are devious b astards who hide on street corners and flash children! Not me, not my best friend, we never stuck our d icks in someone who said no so therefore it can't really be a problem unless you're being risky!

 

That's all such utter bull. 

 

Sports is just a microcosm of the world, a spotlight where you see the influences that result in situations like Kane or Steubenville. It gets the media attention, the articles, the fiery message board debates about the murky depths of morality. 

 

These gents that perpetuate the attitudes and actions that sum up the nebulous term "rape culture" grow up. They stop partying, the realize what idiots they've been, apply some responsibility and stop the "boys will be boys" excuse. But it doesn't stop for some and it doesn't stop the younger guys from continuing on, notching their belts for glory and chuckling it all off as a boozy weekend with the boys. In what world is it ever ok for groups of people to chant the infamous "NO MEANS YES, YES MEANS A NAL" thing? Hah hah they don't really MEAN it guys, it's just so EDGY and hah hah bros suck my d ick 

 

Ahh don't worry about it, he'll grow out of it. He's harmless. We were all stupid once. 

 

Meanwhile I personally know way too many women who were raped/assaulted and didn't say a thing out of embarrassment or fear. And those are the ones who have told me. Most women I know have a story that comes close, and we are just as bad- we shrug it off too. "shouldn't have drank that much. shouldn't have flirted with him. we've been together a while, I guess I should've just let him have it that night". 

 

And there's a real point here too I didn't want to get into- if a girl bangs a bunch of guys, she's a w hore. If she won't bang anyone, she's a repressed prude. Guys can be manwhores but it's an eye rolling "oh you" label more than a curl of the lip "oh god diseased being, avoid at all costs". Don't get me started on birth control. 

 

They tell us to be sexual empowered, but I was raised believing I was a w hore if I gave up my virginity before marriage. "No one's gonna buy a cow that gives its milk away for free". Good lord, it's been a mindf***  that I still struggle with. Meanwhile, boys will be boys and screw around and oh well. If it happens don't get her pregnant. She can hold that over you 18 to life. 

You neither said too much nor conveyed too little.  Thanks for posting.

[darksabre]

I think all agree (or should) that "rape culture" is a problematic term. Those Wiki terms above are also not precise, but they have value as a starting point of conversation

 

 

*sigh*

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dakxwoVV7yM

 

that sort of "contest" is so clearly part of a rape culture. it's practically a wink-wink rape-a-thon (as it was called in the comments thread).

 

I think Josie's post above addresses that wink-wink culture pretty well. 

[Hoss]

This discussion should've ended with Josie's post above. I feel comfortable considering her an authority above all others on this issue, and I have heard the very same thoughts from many (men and women) who discuss the matter.

"Rape culture" is a violent-sounding term which makes people uncomfortable admitting that their country has such an issue. It's a real issue in America.

Slamming feminists over single-issue politics and shoving them in your "PC" corner is totally weak.

[That Aud Smell]

 

What about the rest of my post? 

 

Tricky tricky stuff. I'm not sure there can be a rape where the perpetrator had no reasonable way of knowing that the victim withheld consent (and I'm taking impairment as a presumed lack of consent). Is that what you're saying?

 

 

 

God I hate commenting in this thread. 

 

Thank you for stepping up.

 

That post is so comprehensive, so personal, so persuasive, so on point that I'm going to try to honour it by STFU.

Edited August 18, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Thank you, Josie.

 

Your post is my nomination for post of the entire existence of SabreSpace.

[darksabre]

 

 

 

 

Tricky tricky stuff. I'm not sure there can be a rape where the perpetrator had no reasonable way of knowing that the victim withheld consent (and I'm taking impairment as a presumed lack of consent). Is that what you're saying?

 

 

I don't think impairment has to be a prerequisite. I think this goes to a deeper discussion of the social norms at play between men and women in general. Women in this country have traditionally been subservient to men, a holdover from all sorts of cultural and religious traditions. Only in the last century have the achieved certain right that previously only men had. I don't think it's unreasonable to propose that, although lessened, the idea of women as subservient is still largely at play. And I think it's most prevalent in the one thing we want to talk about the least, which is sex.

[X. Benedict]

 

Well, as a woman you learn to walk the line or terrible s hit happens. Constantly protect yourself. 

 

Okay. This brings it home for me best. The idea that there are boundaries, very real ones, but not always clear, that women have to navigate to protect their own safety is what we are talking about here. 

 

In an ideal society. Everyone should feel safe all the time.  Especially in their reproductive organs. 

 

This reality, that it is not always safe, is not hard to understand, nor does it involve hyperbole. 

 

Thanks, Josie. 

,

[qwksndmonster]

Once again, thanks for the edifying post that got this thread back on track Josie.

[That Aud Smell]

i think insufficent run has been given here to the comedy gold that was paul cambria's facebook spat with bedenko and others on bedenko's FB.

 

this was my favourite exchange.

 

 

cambria can mop the floor with just about anyone in the courtroom. but on a social media message thread? he got lit up.

 

#wewillneverforget

[Johnny DangerFace]

I also think the areas of rape and offensive sexist culture are getting blurred together way too much. While there is some overlap and they effect one another, for the most they are two separate issues.

 

The porn industry and violent porn is a very complicated topic, far too complex for me to try to tackle it for sure. But there can be absolutely nothing wrong with rape fantasy porn. And everything wrong with "normal" porn.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Johnny DangerFace

[WildCard]

The bees are in the what now?

 

Let me rephrase that and tell me if you agree: "Rape is something a seemingly normal person is capable of committing. And something that normal people are capable of being vicitms of"

 

I find nothing normal about a person who commits rape.  They invalidate themselves from that definition by virtue of their actions.  You can BELIEVE they are a good person as well, but you could also believe in unicorns.

 

Let me say this about porn.

 

The production of legal, violent porn requires complicit males and females. There are those who like violent sex.  This is really no different (other than topic) than the link to violence on TV and video games being blamed for violent actions.

 

While I think it's conceivable that rough sex pornography and violent television may blur the lines for some people I think we can agree that it doesn't do it for ALL people. What you try to say, by using these types of arguments, is that rough sex porn is a problem when it really isn't the problem.  The problem is the flawed mental capacity of the person who views it and their lack of ability to understand the differences between what is on the screen and what occurs in real life.  It's this lack of comprehension that is the problem.  The graphic content may be a trigger but eliminating that content on the basis of a small minority of people is wrong.

 

Which brings me to a few other questions for discussion...

 

The lack of moral compass is a significant problem in this world.  It's not something that society underscores. It works against freedom which is what so many people believe we have or need.  However, this lack of moral compass runs through a few niches of society.  The first, as was mentioned, is in impoverished areas. I'm not qualified to speak to the reasons it happens but I think we can all take a fair shake at some of the more obvious ones. I'm good with just accepting the research.  The second, we also mentioned, is with money and power.  Again, we see, throughout history, that whenever money or power are to be gained or are at risk the line people are willing to cross becomes more blurred.

 

I say this because I think rape is, in some cases, a by product of a niche of societies lack of moral compass.  What I mean is, do we see rape being more prevalent than other crimes inside that same group of people or so we see rape being more prevalent in a group of people who wouldn't also be more inclined to commit other crimes.  This in no way is meant to lessen the significance of rape but rather to say that focusing on one part of the problem may not actually lead to a solution.

 

I would love to go on but I am late for a meeting.  

Good post, well said.