Patrick Kane: [Updated] D.A. Decides Not to Prosecute; NHL Determines Claims "Unfounded"

[darksabre]

You're joking, right? This has to be sarcasm. 

 

Not a chance. What is the matter? 

[Eleven]

Not a chance. What is the matter? 

 

He did the leg work.

[darksabre]

We don't have a furry culture, either.  Or a transvestite culture.  Or a lesbian culture or a gay male culture.  There's plenty of that porn around, too.  I'll bet there's more of that than rape porn.

 

No question that rape is a serious crime and that women are especially vulnerable to it.  No question that there is a significant percentage of women who will experience some form of unwelcome touching and a smaller, but more unfortunate, percentage who will experience rape.

 

When I think of a "rape culture," I think of places where it is openly tolerated.  That's not the US.

The US openly tolerates it in its own special way. By pretending it isn't happening at all. By sweeping it under the carpet. By blaming the accusers. By throwing its hands up and acting like there's nothing to be done. 

He did the leg work.

 

He cited some stats from one website. That's hardly legwork. 

[LGR4GM]

"half" of those Americans. Good try. Enjoy some of pornhub's stats on this last year, you'll notice hardcore and rough fantasies like you mention are nowhere near as prevalent as you would make them out to be.

http://www.pornhub.com/insights/2014-year-in-review

 

And, as it turns out, it's mostly women looking for more intense porn. Can't really quote anything here, but it varies pretty significantly in the "rough" aspect than men search for.

http://www.pornhub.com/insights/women-gender-demographics-searches

 

EDIT: Misread your quote above; sorry you are right, half of us do regularly, we're just not searching for what you suggest is my point.

You and D4rk can have at this one but I would like to point out that enjoying rough sex is not the same as rape.  I have no doubt we all know that but I wanted to state it explicitly.

 

We don't have a furry culture, either.  Or a transvestite culture.  Or a lesbian culture or a gay male culture.  There's plenty of that porn around, too.  I'll bet there's more of that than rape porn.

 

No question that rape is a serious crime and that women are especially vulnerable to it.  No question that there is a significant percentage of women who will experience some form of unwelcome touching and a smaller, but more unfortunate, percentage who will experience rape.

 

When I think of a "rape culture," I think of places where it is openly tolerated.  That's not the US.

Perhaps that is a better definition and more in line with the wording "rape culture".  We do not have a culture that is okay with rape, which really would be the hard definition of "rape culture".  We do have a culture that seems predisposed to question the victim and their motives. Again very complex issue.

[Eleven]

The US openly tolerates it in its own special way. By pretending it isn't happening at all. By sweeping it under the carpet. By blaming the accusers. By throwing its hands up and acting like there's nothing to be done. 

 

He cited some stats from one website. That's hardly legwork. 

 

It's more than telling people to go search for themselves, isn't it?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Eleven

[darksabre]

It's better than telling people to go search for themselves, isn't it?

 

How's that?

[That Aud Smell]

When I think of a "rape culture," I think of places where it is openly tolerated.  That's not the US.

 

I think that's mostly fair. And I think the U.S. has made a lot of progress in this regard - thanks, in no small part, to feminists and, dare I say it, women's studies types.

 

I think there are pockets (maybe even swaths) of America - scattered throughout the country - where attitudes toward rape would surprise (shock) many of us.

 

One irony re the India comment (a thought I had as well): Some published (and peer reviewed and recent) statistics on the incidence of rape in India indicate that the crime occurs quite rarely there. Which sort of goes to prove another larger point.

[Eleven]

You and D4rk can have at this one but I would like to point out that enjoying rough sex is not the same as rape.  I have no doubt we all know that but I wanted to state it explicitly.

 

Perhaps that is a better definition and more in line with the wording "rape culture".  We do not have a culture that is okay with rape, which really would be the hard definition of "rape culture".  We do have a culture that seems predisposed to question the victim and their motives. Again very complex issue.

 

Especially when it comes to vulnerable accuseds.

[LGR4GM]

Especially when it comes to vulnerable accuseds.

Right but is discounts the vulnerability of the victim.

 

For instance a girl in a man's home is more vulnerable because there is an opportunity there that otherwise would not be present. The key here is that we can't blame the girl for being vulnerable because in our society we expect the male to act according to our accepted social norms.

Edited August 18, 2015 by LGR4GM

[Fidelio]

You and D4rk can have at this one but I would like to point out that enjoying rough sex is not the same as rape.  I have no doubt we all know that but I wanted to state it explicitly.

 

Perhaps that is a better definition and more in line with the wording "rape culture".  We do not have a culture that is okay with rape, which really would be the hard definition of "rape culture".  We do have a culture that seems predisposed to question the victim and their motives. Again very complex issue.

 

Our culture questions the motives of victims because there is a precedent for it, not by some malicious intent or societal craving to satisfy the whim of the gods through sacrificing of the innocents. 

 

The ensuing confusion and blurred lines that are taken advantage of by both sides is an unfortunate consequence no doubt, but the underlying causes run to the depths of how this country  is operated and the resulting values that are promoted. 

[X. Benedict]

.

 

Perhaps that is a better definition and more in line with the wording "rape culture".  We do not have a culture that is okay with rape, which really would be the hard definition of "rape culture".  We do have a culture that seems predisposed to question the victim and their motives. Again very complex issue.

 

This idea. Blaming the victim. The "she must have deserved it" idea. What was she wearing. Or slut-shaming.  Calling a victim a "gold-digger'?

 

Is this what we are really talking about when we say "rape culture" ?  

 

The metalanguage used to discuss the sexual assault? 

 

If so, I think a case could be made for "pervasive," at least in terms of comments like that being widespread.  

 

I was hung up on the idea, (and maybe still am) that "normalized" means that sexual assault is socially acceptable. I'm still balking there. 

[WildCard]

He did the leg work.

He cited some stats from one website. That's hardly legwork. 

It's by far and away the most popular cite of it's kind, and it's not "some stats" it is specifically the stats you are trying to claim are true when they clearly aren't. 

 

A few days back you went on and extolled about the quality of posts on this cite, and how our degree of debate is what separates us from others. Yesterday you called out SDS for not showing Liger the respect he deserves in an argument. Today you dismiss evidence that proves your point of rape fantasies dominating pornography incorrect. Doesn't really add up 

[Eleven]

Right but is discounts the vulnerability of the victim.

 

For instance a girl in a man's home is more vulnerable because there is an opportunity there that otherwise would not be present. The key here is that we can't blame the girl for being vulnerable because in our society we expect the male to act according to our accepted social norms.

 

I can agree with that.

[darksabre]

It's by far and away the most popular cite of it's kind, and it's not "some stats" it is specifically the stats you are trying to claim are true when they clearly aren't. 

 

A few days back you went on and extolled about the quality of posts on this cite, and how our degree of debate is what separates us from others. Yesterday you called out SDS for not showing Liger the respect he deserves in an argument. Today you dismiss evidence that proves your point of rape fantasies dominating pornography incorrect. Doesn't really add up 

 

If you go to my initial post you'll notice that I said nothing of people's actual search habits, which is what your information provides. I'm speaking to prevalence of content. This is why I'm asking you to see for yourself. The volume of content speaks far more loudly than what people are searching for. Searches do not necessary correlate to what people are actually viewing. But the amount of content does. That content wouldn't exist if there weren't demand.

[bunomatic]

If you go to my initial post you'll notice that I said nothing of people's actual search habits, which is what your information provides. I'm speaking to prevalence of content. This is why I'm asking you to see for yourself. The volume of content speaks far more loudly than what people are searching for. Searches do not necessary correlate to what people are actually viewing. But the amount of content does. That content wouldn't exist if there weren't demand.

Makes sense. People wouldn't make the porn if they weren't making money off it.

[WildCard]

If you go to my initial post you'll notice that I said nothing of people's actual search habits, which is what your information provides. I'm speaking to prevalence of content. This is why I'm asking you to see for yourself. The volume of content speaks far more loudly than what people are searching for. Searches do not necessary correlate to what people are actually viewing. But the amount of content does. That content wouldn't exist if there weren't demand.

"There are men everyday looking for this stuff" --Yes, you did say that.

 

Searches directly correlate to what people are viewing. Unless you hit the lotto and it's on the front page of the cite, you have to search for it to view it. I have viewed plenty of stuff that isn't up my ally, just out of curiosity or someone baited me into clicking it. Searching for it consequentially implicates one of having a desire to view it.

Edited August 18, 2015 by WildCard

[Fidelio]

This idea. Blaming the victim. The "she must have deserved it" idea. What was she wearing. Or slut-shaming.  Calling a victim a "gold-digger'?

 

Is this what we are really talking about when we say "rape culture" ?  

 

The metalanguage used to discuss the sexual assault? 

 

If so, I think a case could be made for "pervasive," at least in terms of comments like that being widespread.  

 

I was hung up on the idea, (and maybe still am) that "normalized" means that sexual assault is socially acceptable. I'm still balking there. 

 

I think you are right to be balking.  

This is just a much an exercise in misappropriated logic and imbalanced reasoning as the conscious unfolding of deciding to act on impulses that one knows to be immoral.

[darksabre]

"There are men everyday looking for this stuff" --Yes, you did say that.

 

Searches directly correlate to what people are viewing. Unless you hit the lotto and it's on the front page of the cite, you have to search for it to view it. I have viewed plenty of stuff that isn't up my ally, just out of curiosity or someone baited me into clicking it. Searching for it consequentially implicates one of having a desire to view it

 

How many times have you been on youtube and elected to watch a related video that you wouldn't have searched for directly but found interesting? 

 

And yes, I said there were men searching for this stuff every day. I made no claim as to the number. 

[WildCard]

Makes sense. People wouldn't make the porn if they weren't making money off it.

Sure they would, there is plenty of amateur people who do it for the thrill of it. they wouldn't make as much of it, nor would it have nearly the quality, but it'd be out there. 

[shrader]

With the websites being mentioned here, I just know this will be the day where IT checks in to see what I'm reading online.

[darksabre]

With the websites being mentioned here, I just know this will be the day where IT checks in to see what I'm reading online.

 

:lol:

[WildCard]

How many times have you been on youtube and elected to watch a related video that you wouldn't have searched for directly but found interesting? 

 

And yes, I said there were men searching for this stuff every day. I made no claim as to the number. 

Come on, man. I just found a direct contradiction to yourself above, and you won't even give me that. If you want to make statements like the one you made against nfreeman, then not admit the fallacy in them when shown directly to you, there's nothing more I can do. 

 

You're right, I watched Gangnam Style because it was there. Does that make me a fan of the music? Did I start wearing weird pants and dancing in elevators? Nope. In fact, I never watched it again. Instead, I search youtube regularly for the songs that do interest me 

With the websites being mentioned here, I just know this will be the day where IT checks in to see what I'm reading online.

I am IT at my job, so I'm all set  :lol:

[darksabre]

Come on, man. I just found a direct contradiction to yourself above, and you won't even give me that. If you want to make statements like the one you made against nfreeman, then not admit the fallacy in them when shown directly to you, there's nothing more I can do. 

 

You're right, I watched Gangnam Style because it was there. Does that make me a fan of the music? Did I start wearing weird pants and dancing in elevators? Nope. In fact, I never watched it again. Instead, I search youtube regularly for the songs that do interest me 

I am IT at my job, so I'm all set  :lol:

 

You haven't disproved my point at all. You believe the demand doesn't exist. How do you explain the prevalence of content that indicates the opposite?  

[WildCard]

You haven't disproved my point at all. You believe the demand doesn't exist. How do you explain the prevalence of content that indicates the opposite?  

Now you're just lying

 

 

I don't need to subject myself to the rape fantasies of others to know they exist, I'm not doubting they do. My point is, as with Hoss above, there are crazies in every group, that indicate we have a rape or pedophilla or weird octopus culture.  

 

[That Aud Smell]

This idea. Blaming the victim. The "she must have deserved it" idea. What was she wearing. Or slut-shaming.  Calling a victim a "gold-digger'?

 

Is this what we are really talking about when we say "rape culture" ?  

 

The metalanguage used to discuss the sexual assault? 

 

If so, I think a case could be made for "pervasive," at least in terms of comments like that being widespread.  

 

I was hung up on the idea, (and maybe still am) that "normalized" means that sexual assault is socially acceptable. I'm still balking there. 

 

I think that is part of what's being discussed with rape culture, yeah. Words matter. A lot. And they reveal a lot, too.

 

I think the term "socially acceptable" is a murky one. Sure, 99% of polled Americans would reject sexual assault as a taboo. But dig a little deeper. Scratch the surface a bit. What did the person being asked understand when s/he heard the term "sexual assault." Is it a perverted stranger jumping out of an alley? Or is it that guy you just met at the bar and led on by grinding up on his pelvis on the dance floor? Is it your boyfriend of 3 years who's looking for some love and you're just not in the mood? Same question for a lady's husband. The attitudes and views will become more varied as the facts become more detailed. Such as has been the case here, I think.

 

"There are men everyday looking for this stuff" --Yes, you did say that.

 

Searches directly correlate to what people are viewing. Unless you hit the lotto and it's on the front  page of the cite, you have to search for it to view it. I have viewed plenty of stuff that isn't up my ally, just out of curiosity or someone baited me into clicking it. Searching for it consequentially implicates one of having a desire to view it.

 

Or, you know, you can go to the home page and just click on a category (e.g, eel pr0n).  :ph34r:

 

I think you are right to be balking.  

This is just a much an exercise in misappropriated logic and imbalanced reasoning as the conscious unfolding of deciding to act on impulses that one knows to be immoral.

 

This is not just anything. It's a big, fluid conversation with lots of ideas and concepts being discussed.

Edited August 18, 2015 by That Aud Smell