The delusion fan provocation thread

[Fidelio]

It is nothing short of infuriating to see people going on about trading the assets still remaining at this years deadline in hopes that, by some miracle, we are in contention for 8th place. As if wasting valuable currency by trading from a position of massive weakness will somehow put us in a better position as an organization.  Its not so hard to fathom when considering we are most likely dealing with a  fair-weather frank who unlike you and the rest of the organization, hasn't been tediously planning and biding their time over the past several years. From 2012 when it became apparent the incumbent crop of clowns wasn't going to cut it, to realizing the necessity of a rebuild, to Eichel and Mcdavid invading scouts wet dreams across the country,  to the "pre tank", where the most dire hard of us had committed to anti-fandom before the 2014 team even laced up their skates and finally to the tank itself, where the vigilant among us endured enough emotional stress to warrant formal psychiatric treatment .   From the start of that wretched apparition which some deemed a win streak on November 19th, 2014 we all watched in terror when the porous excuses for 9th string net minders and half assed defensemen let in dump goal after mind blowing dump goal, forever etching names like anton forsberg deep into the cities collective consciousness.  And who could forget the late season heroes; Jonathan Toews and his late game heroics and Cam Atkinson with the "tank" clinching beaut in the finale that had me bouncing off the walls in a hotel room in Toronto while a conference I was supposed to be attending was being held downstairs. It was one hell of a year and i guess if I hadn’t been religiously following each move for the past 4 years as if it were milestones in my childs life, i might be able to relate to the desire to ice a bond fide playoff team at all costs, despite the consequences.  These are most likely the same blokes that sit down at a roulette table, put down 10,000 on 31 black, win 300,000 and then double down just to give it all back.  Still, it blows my mind that given the mountain of evidence stacked against them, these gentle fellows persist.  They still get hot and bothered by thoughts of massively wasteful and irrational trades that threaten to bankrupt the team, and crucify those who preach to proceed on the preordained path.  Amidst all the rumblings of urgency and trade rumors tho, I have yet to read a single viable plan that explains to me how a team with less combined playoff experience than  a single Blackhawks regular, will usurp true contenders rolling 4 lines  laden with proven elite talent.

 

 Teams like the 2014-2015 Blackhawks: Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa, Patrick Kane, Brad Richards, Brandon Saad.

New Look Stars:Jamie Benm, Tyler Seguin, Valeri Nichuskin, Patrick Sharp, Jasson Spezza, Ales Hemsky

New Look Caps:Alex Ovechkin, Nicklas Backstrom, T.J. Oshie, Marcus Johansson, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Justin Williams, just to name a few. 

 

The Sabres do not have a SINGLE proven top 3 commodity, a SINGLE proven top 2 Defensemen or a SINGLE proven playoff performer.  Their prospect pool is sorely lacking at the top of RW and with the trade of Zadorov,  on D.  They have talented cast offs from other teams who we hope a change of scenery will reinvigorate , Jack Eichel and a solid looking bottom 9F/ bottom (maybe) 4D.  Using the aforementioned teams as a comparative tool/ hypothetical future contender shell, their lineup looks like this:

 

Evander Kane??      Jack Eichel??    ???

Sam Reinhart??  Ryan Oreilly  Tyler Ennis

Jamie Mcgin Zemgus Girgensons Matt Moulson 

Marcus Foligno Johan Larsson  Nic Deslauries

 

??  Rasmus Ristolainen??

Mccabe?? Bogosian

Ruhwedel??  ??

 

Lehner??

???

 

Lets Assume Sam Reinhart maxes out at his proper elite top 6 potential, Oreillly avoids getting behind the wheel and Ristolainen becomes the all purpose #1 D he currently projects to be.  For the purposes of reasonably balanced probable outcomes, lets also assume there was a solid reason why Chevy-day-off dumped his former top pick(s) and physical super freak (other than trivial locker room gripes, cuz lets face it, using that as a frame of reference for letting a player go, O’reilly should be in Alcatraz 2.0), leaving Kane as a high end 2nd/3rd line winger.  Lets also gamble that Mccabe fits in nicely as a bottom 2 D on a legitimate contender. That leaves a first line of This:

 

??? Eichel ???

 

And D pairings Like This

??? Risto

??   Bogosian

Ruhwedel Mccabe

 

 

Who are we going to trade for to fill these gaping holes that hasn’t already been shipped off to real contenders and with what assets? If we trade to fill the bottom half up first and finish near the playoff bubble, what currency will be available to acquire prospects or players equivalent to guys like Backstrom, Jamie Benn, Marian Hossa, Patrick Sharp, Drew Doughty, Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, etc…. And who the hell ever parts ways with core superstars in their right mind (well except for the Bruins) anyways?  Just to get a sense of what these players are worth, see the salary chart below.  Every single one of the top 3 players on contending teams I mentioned would cost a minimum of two firsts, a second, and a third through restricted free agency value assignment  and i doubt trade values for players who weren’t wart ridden would be any different.

 

2005 Averaged Salary 2015-16 Averaged Salary Draft Pick Compensation $660,000 and below $1,205,377 and below No compensation $660,001 to $1,000,000 $1,205,377 to $1,826,328 Third-round pick $1,000,001 to $2,000,000 $1,826,328 to $3,652,659 Second-round pick $2,000,001 to $3,000,000 $3,652,659 to $5,478,986 First- and third-round pick $3,000,001 to $4,000,000 $5,478,986 to $7,305,316 First-, second-, and third-round pick $4,000,001 to $5,000,000 $7,305,316 to $9,131,645 Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick (An acceptable first line winger if complimented by top tier counterpart) $5,000,001 and above $9,131,645 and above Four first-round picks (Kane, Towes, Ovechkin, etc.. What we really want as a first line winger)

 

 

 

Bottom line is contending teams rarely acquire top tier first line players through trades, and when they do its the exception not the norm, and in my opinion, nothing to bank on.  My mind isn’t sealed shut on the matter but I just can’t see any way mortgaging future assets to improve now doesn’t severely impede this teams progression to cup contention.  Id love to read some rational propositions tho…

Edited August 4, 2015 by Tank4Matthews16

[Taro T]

It is nothing short of infuriating to see people going on about trading the assets still remaining at this years deadline in hopes that if by some miracle we are in contention for 8th place. As if wasting valuable currency by trading from a position of massive weakness will somehow put us in a better position as an organization.  Its not so hard to fathom when considering we are most likely dealing with a  fair-weather frank who unlike you and the rest of the organization, hasn't been tediously planning and biding their time over the past several years. From 2012 when it became apparent the incumbent crop of clowns wasn't going to cut it, to realizing the necessity of a rebuild, to Eichel and Mcdavid invading scouts wet dreams across the country,  to the "pre tank", where the most dire hard of us had committed to anti-fandom before the 2014 team even laced up their skates and finally to the tank itself, where the vigilant among us endured enough emotional stress to warrant formal psychiatric treatment .   From the start of that wretched apparition which some deemed a win streak on November 19th, 2014 we all watched in terror when the porous excuses for 9th string net minders and half assed defensemen let in dump goal after mind blowing dump goal, forever etching names like anton forsberg deep into the cities collective consciousness.  And who could forget the late season heroes; Jonathan Toews and his late game heroics and Cam Atkinson with the "tank" clinching beaut in the finale that had me bouncing off the walls in a hotel room in Toronto while a conference I was supposed to be attending was being held downstairs. It was one hell of a year and i guess if I hadn’t been religiously following each move for the past 4 years as if it were milestones in my childs life, i might be able to relate to the desire to ice a bond fide playoff team at all costs, despite the consequences.  

 Still, it blows my mind that given the mountain of evidence stacked against them, these gentle fellows persist.  They still get hot and bothered by thoughts of massively wasteful and irrational trades that threaten to bankrupt the team, and crucify those who preach to proceed on the preordained path.  Amidst all the rumblings of urgency and trade rumors tho, I have yet to read a single viable plan that explains to me how a team with less combined playoff experience than  a single Blackhawks regular, will usurp true contenders rolling 4 lines  laden with proven elite talent.

 

 

Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa, Patrick Kane, Brad Richards, Brandon Saad.

New Look Caps:

, Nicklas Backstrom, T.J. Oshie, Marcus Johansson, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Justin Williams, just to name a few. 

 

The Sabres do not have a SINGLE proven top 3 commodity, a SINGLE proven top 2 Defensemen or a SINGLE proven playoff performer.  Their prospect pool is sorely lacking at the top of RW and with the trade of Zadorov,  on D.  They have talented cast offs from other teams who we hope a change of scenery will reinvigorate , Jack Eichel and a solid looking bottom 9F/ bottom (maybe) 4D.  Using the aforementioned teams as a comparative tool/ hypothetical future contender shell, their lineup looks like this:

 

Evander Kane??      Jack Eichel??    ???

Sam Reinhart??  Ryan Oreilly  Tyler Ennis

Jamie Mcgin Zemgus Girgensons Matt Moulson 

Marcus Foligno Johan Larsson  Nic Deslauries

 

??  Rasmus Ristolainen??

Mccabe?? Bogosian

Ruhwedel??  ??

 

Lehner??

???

 

Lets Assume Sam Reinhart maxes out at his proper elite top 6 potential, Oreillly avoids getting behind the wheel and Ristolainen becomes the all purpose #1 D he currently projects to be.  For the purposes of reasonably balanced probable outcomes, lets also assume there was a solid reason why Chevy-day-off dumped his former top pick(s) and physical super freak (other than trivial locker room gripes, cuz lets face it, using that as a frame of reference for letting a player go, O’reilly should be in Alcatraz 2.0), leaving Kane as a high end 2nd/3rd line winger.  Lets also gamble that Mccabe fits in nicely as a bottom 2 D on a legitimate contender. That leaves a first line of This:

 

??? Eichel ???

 

And D pairings Like This

??? Risto

??   Bogosian

Ruhwedel Mccabe

 

 

Who are we going to trade for to fill these gaping holes that hasn’t already been shipped off to real contenders and with what assets? If we trade to fill the bottom half up first and finish near the playoff bubble, what currency will be available to acquire prospects or players equivalent to guys like Backstrom, Jamie Benn, Marian Hossa, Patrick Sharp, Drew Doughty, Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, etc…. And who the hell ever parts ways with core superstars in their right mind (well except for the Bruins) anyways?  Just to get a sense of what these players are worth, see the salary chart below.  Every single one of the top 3 players on contending teams I mentioned would cost a minimum of two firsts, a second, and a third through restricted free agency value assignment  and i doubt trade values for players who weren’t wart ridden would be any different.

 

 

 

2005 Averaged Salary

 

2015-16 Averaged Salary

 

Draft Pick Compensation

 

$660,000 and below

 

$1,205,377 and below

 

No compensation

 

$660,001 to $1,000,000

 

$1,205,377 to $1,826,328

 

Third-round pick

 

$1,000,001 to $2,000,000

 

$1,826,328 to $3,652,659

 

Second-round pick

 

$2,000,001 to $3,000,000

 

$3,652,659 to $5,478,986

 

First- and third-round pick

 

$3,000,001 to $4,000,000

 

$5,478,986 to $7,305,316

 

First-, second-, and third-round pick

 

$4,000,001 to $5,000,000

 

$7,305,316 to $9,131,645

 

Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick (An acceptable first line winger if complimented by top tier counterpart)

 

$5,000,001 and above

 

$9,131,645 and above

 

Four first-round picks (Kane, Towes, Ovechkin, etc.. What we really want as a first line winger)

 

 

 

 

Bottom line is contending teams rarely acquire top tier first line players through trades, and when they do its the exception not the norm, and in my opinion, nothing to bank on.  My mind isn’t sealed shut on the matter but I just can’t see any way mortgaging future assets to improve now doesn’t severely impeded this teams progression to cup contention.  Id love to read some rational propositions tho…

 

Where has ANYONE suggested the Sabres should trade assets this year if they are close to the playoffs at the trade deadline? :huh:

 

Very interesting post, but considering it is in reaction to a strawman, not sure what the point was. :unsure:

[MattPie]

That's quite the impassioned post, well done. But I haven't seen many people (if any) saying that we should be trading futures for assets now. I think most people here are at least a little uncomfortable with the number of futures the Sabres have shipped out (Murray was robbed!) even if the talent coming back has been solid. I certainly don't expect to see the Sabres in "win now" mode come February, as GMTM has said a few times that there's a timeline he's working.

[That Aud Smell]

 

It is nothing short of infuriating to see people going on about trading the assets still remaining at this years deadline in hopes that if by some miracle we are in contention for 8th place. 

 

....

 

I just can’t see any way mortgaging future assets to improve now doesn’t severely impede this teams progression to cup contention. 

 

Fair play for the keystrokin'. A bit of a long read by this forum's standards.

 

 

(A joke. Really.)

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and the concern that is behind it.

 

I posted a while back - some time after the Hawks won and someone mentioned who their true core was (something like 7 guys?). I wondered who our core projected to be. I'm still not totally clear.

 

I'm definitely hoping that the 2016 draft can give us another piece.

Edited August 4, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[Eleven]

What did you do to Gionta?

[apuszczalowski]

Thanks for coming here and telling us how everyone should think and exactly how teams should be built....

 

It's funny how you list the "new look stars" who haven't done anything on the ice to be cup contenders, and about half that core has been acquired via trades for picks , prospects, and player.

 

It a true fact that the only way to build a team that can win the cup is to acquire your roster through drafting and not trading away picks and prospects for established talent.

[Fidelio]

I supposed i should have mentioned that the people who whine about trading assets liter the airwaves of WGR550 and comment sections of bigger sites like bleacher report/espn etc (and cited them), and not this site.  More than that I guess i was trying to arouse a debate.  Also, i certainly deserve criticism (nice Gif) for my writing style: Much like my thoughts it is wordy, tangental, not concise etc.  Its a work in progress.  

 

Gionta, in my opinion, is more likely to be part of the coaching staff by the time this team contends.  He should be a nice father time for the up and comers the next few years as i'm sure we all agree. 

 

I think my zeal comes from a sense of insane attachment to this process and its successful completion.  Im petrified of Murray blowing up Darcy's years of patient planning and drowning the team in his ego.

 

Thanks for the feedback fellows.

Thanks for coming here and telling us how everyone should think and exactly how teams should be built....

It's funny how you list the "new look stars" who haven't done anything on the ice to be cup contenders, and about half that core has been acquired via trades for picks , prospects, and player.

It a true fact that the only way to build a team that can win the cup is to acquire your roster through drafting and not trading away picks and prospects for established talent.

 

Im not telling you how to think.

I said trading for stars is a rarity, not that it hasn't happened.

The stars benefited from fortunate circumstances (Trade with Boston, Cap choked Chicago), id rather not rely on fortune, as i said.

I was using the teams top 6 as an example, not the entire team in that instance. Stars have a baller top 6.

We've already made more major trades in the last 12 months alone than some teams make in a decade, i never said trading shouldn't be a part of it.

Its not a fact, but definitely a well documented trend that teams who draft in the top 5 multiple times have a higher chance at winning a cup within a decade (even EDM, just wait for it)

Sorry the posting frustrated you so, it clearly reflects flaws in the way I convey my opinions and perhaps even form them.

[That Aud Smell]

Its a work in progress.  

 

As are we all. 

 

Welcome!

[Fidelio]

Oh I almost forgot,

 

Japan, Mezaros, Hamburger, Titan, Shingles, Disaster, Back Street Boys

[MattPie]

I supposed i should have mentioned that the people who whine about trading assets liter the airwaves of WGR550 and comment sections of bigger sites like bleacher report/espn etc (and cited them), and not this site.  More than that I guess i was trying to arouse a debate.  Also, i certainly deserve criticism (nice Gif) for my writing style: Much like my thoughts it is wordy, tangental, not concise etc.  Its a work in progress.  

 

Gionta, in my opinion, is more likely to be part of the coaching staff by the time this team contends.  He should be a nice father time for the up and comers the next few years as i'm sure we all agree. 

 

I think my zeal comes from a sense of insane attachment to this process and its successful completion.  Im petrified of Murray blowing up Darcy's years of patient planning and drowning the team in his ego.

 

Thanks for the feedback fellows.

 

Im not telling you how to think.

I said trading for stars is a rarity, not that it hasn't happened.

The stars benefited from fortunate circumstances (Trade with Boston, Cap choked Chicago), id rather not rely on fortune, as i said.

I was using the teams top 6 as an example, not the entire team in that instance. Stars have a baller top 6.

We've already made more major trades in the last 12 months alone than some teams make in a decade, i never said trading shouldn't be a part of it.

Its not a fact, but definitely a well documented trend that teams who draft in the top 5 multiple times have a higher chance at winning a cup within a decade (even EDM, just wait for it)

Sorry the posting frustrated you so, it clearly reflects flaws in the way I convey my opinions and perhaps even form them.

 

Keep posting. Although generally speaking, I find the hockey knowledge here to be top notch and above and radio call-in show. I can't even listen to the callers; it's not fun when I can't reply that they're wrong wrong wrong.

[Fidelio]

Where has ANYONE suggested the Sabres should trade assets this year if they are close to the playoffs at the trade deadline? :huh:

 

Very interesting post, but considering it is in reaction to a strawman, not sure what the point was. :unsure:

 

You're a Strawman. :angel:

[Taro T]

Oh I almost forgot,

 

Japan, Mezaros, Hamburger, Titan, Shingles, Disaster, Back Street Boys

Only 3 of those are synonyms. ;)

[SwampD]

I supposed i should have mentioned that the people who whine about trading assets liter the airwaves of WGR550 and comment sections of bigger sites like bleacher report/espn etc (and cited them), and not this site.  More than that I guess i was trying to arouse a debate.  Also, i certainly deserve criticism (nice Gif) for my writing style: Much like my thoughts it is wordy, tangental, not concise etc.  Its a work in progress.  

 

Gionta, in my opinion, is more likely to be part of the coaching staff by the time this team contends.  He should be a nice father time for the up and comers the next few years as i'm sure we all agree. 

 

I think my zeal comes from a sense of insane attachment to this process and its successful completion.  Im petrified of Murray blowing up Darcy's years of patient planning and drowning the team in his ego.

 

Thanks for the feedback fellows.

You didn't really just type that, did you? :lol:

 

GMTM didn't really trade away too much imho. He traded some young unknowns for some less young (but still young enough) less unknowns. I know that others got their panties in a bunch and think we gave away too much, but I don't really have a problem with what he's done so far in terms of trades.

[Taro T]

You're a Strawman. :angel:

Kind of new to this English language thing, eh? :p

 

Well, welcome then. Wie geht's?

[Fidelio]

Keep posting. Although generally speaking, I find the hockey knowledge here to be top notch and above and radio call-in show. I can't even listen to the callers; it's not fun when I can't reply that they're wrong wrong wrong.

 

Thanks for the encouragement! First time poster long time listener. I stumbled upon this site randomly after being fed up with WGR content, and so far it seems there are intelligent, knowledgable and passionate fans here.  

 

Its not just the callers.  Its the content.  MEAT DRAFTS, CANDY DRAFTS, FRITOS... WTF. YOU GET PAID FOR THAT . (are we allowed to swear?)

I mean I understand that it must be difficult to fill 4 hour blocks with dense information 365, but there is rich with useful wisdom and then diarrhea pouring into my ears.  After awhile it becomes like a kind of ambient noise to facilitate alpha waves/ a meditative state. 

[Eleven]

Thanks for the encouragement! First time poster long time listener. I stumbled upon this site randomly after being fed up with ###### WGR content, and so far it seems there are intelligent, knowledgable and passionate fans here.  

 

Its not just the callers.  Its the content.  MEAT DRAFTS, CANDY DRAFTS, FRITOS... WTF. YOU GET PAID FOR THAT ######. (are we allowed to swear?)

I mean I understand that it must be difficult to fill 4 hour blocks with dense information 365, but there is rich with useful wisdom and then diarrhea pouring into my ears.  After awhile it becomes like a kind of ambient noise to facilitate alpha waves/ a meditative state. 

 

Didn't you post a couple of weeks ago?

[Fidelio]

You didn't really just type that, did you? :lol:

 

GMTM didn't really trade away too much imho. He traded some young unknowns for some less young (but still young enough) less unknowns. I know that others got their panties in a bunch and think we gave away too much, but I don't really have a problem with what he's done so far in terms of trades.

 

I don't think he gave up anything too serious yet. I HATED the Lehner trade and think Compher was one piece to many for a player who already had one foot out the door, but i'm still pleased with the direction of the team as it stands.  Again its more of a fear of whats to come.  Confidence can work positively in terms of decisiveness and it can work against you in the form of stubbornness.  Accordingly, Murray will seemingly soar or sink and nothing in between. Of course I'll gladly eat crow for breakfast lunch and dinner if we be hoisting the cup in a few years but again, i have a mortal fear that we are at a crucial point in this teams development (where murray and his staff will actually need to prove their merits in terms of working within the bounds of normal circumstances: aka  not having a house full of prospects, actually having to make more subtle, calculated moves) and my years of hoping and praying could all come crashing down with a few overly bold, trade failures.  

[qwksndmonster]

Thanks for providing us with some delusional Summertime hockey passion, T4M  :thumbsup:

I think my zeal comes from a sense of insane attachment to this process and its successful completion.  Im petrified of Murray blowing up Darcy's years of patient planning and drowning the team in his ego.

I take issue with this.  Darcy didn't have a "plan."  Tim Murray has demonstrated more vision and team building ability than Darcy did from 2008-(whenever he got canned) by an incredibly large margin.

 

And TM's ego?  :blink: Really?

Edited August 4, 2015 by qwksndmonster

[Fidelio]

Didn't you post a couple of weeks ago?

 

I did... more of a general idea to support my stupid pun  :ph34r:

Kind of new to this English language thing, eh? :P

 

Well, welcome then. Wie geht's?

 

Oh, Gurle, ne cheil mal han ono lul hangook mal i ya

[MattPie]

Wasn't there a candy draft here awhile back? I assume we were stealing content ideas from WGR at that point, and not the other way around.

[Fidelio]

Thanks for providing us with some delusional Summertime hockey passion, T4M  :thumbsup:

I take issue with this.  Darcy didn't have a "plan."  Tim Murray has demonstrated more vision and team building ability than Darcy did from 2008-(whenever he got canned) by an incredibly large margin.

 

And TM's ego?  :blink: Really?

 

Tim Murrays vision is yet to be proven as is his status as a quality GM.  Darcy, a 15+ year vet, got great return on aging players who went to other teams and (with he exception of pominville.. maybe) flamed out.  He stocked the cupboards for Murray and while Murray has certainly brought in some promising talent into the organization, as he himself said, it doesn't take a genius to draft Jack Eichel.  

 

Also, don't forget for much of Darcy's tenure he was handcuffed by finances, forcing him to let key core players go for nothing (drury, brier which would be crippling to any franchise/GM) and operate under a different set of parameters in general.  I'm not saying hes Einstein of GM's but i think he gets a worse rap than he deserves. 

[That Aud Smell]

Well, welcome then. Wie geht's?

Oh, Gurle, ne cheil mal han ono lul hangook mal i ya

 

Wut.

[Fidelio]

Wasn't there a candy draft here awhile back? I assume we were stealing content ideas from WGR at that point, and not the other way around.

 

Lord I hope so... you don't cash a paycheck from this site... or do you?

[qwksndmonster]

Tim Murrays vision is yet to be proven as is his status as a quality GM.  Darcy, a 15+ year vet, got great return on aging players who went to other teams and (with he exception of pominville.. maybe) flamed out.  He stocked the cupboards for Murray and while Murray has certainly brought in some promising talent into the organization, as he himself said, it doesn't take a genius to draft Jack Eichel.  

 

Also, don't forget for much of Darcy's tenure he was handcuffed by finances, forcing him to let key core players go for nothing (drury, brier which would be crippling to any franchise/GM) and operate under a different set of parameters in general.  I'm not saying hes Einstein of GM's but i think he gets a worse rap than he deserves. 

Darcy was good for a while.  And then he was bad... and somehow thought his team could win without quality centers (year after year after year).  Darcy slowly sold off assets (getting good value), not committing to the tank until he absolutely had to.  

 

You're right that GMTM hasn't proved anything yet.  But don't construe it as if Darcy was about to build a juggernaut and GMTM is just a cocky rookie who will ruin it.

Edited August 4, 2015 by qwksndmonster

[Fidelio]

Wut.

EXACTLY

Darcy was good for a while.  And then he was bad... and somehow thought his team could win without quality centers (year after year after year).  Then Darcy slowly sold off assets (getting good value), not committing to the tank until he absolutely had to.  

 

You're absolutely right that GMTM hasn't proved anything yet.  But don't construe it as if Darcy was about to build a juggernaut and GMTM is just a cocky rookie who will ruin it.

 

I did not! Just saying he wasn't some doof who sat on his hands because he was polyamorous with players wives.