John Shannon: "The Sabres would be better not making the playoffs"

[beerme1]

Caught him on GR yesterday and he said we would be better off not making the playoffs this coming season because it will create unrealistic expectations of making the conference final the next season and he doesn't think that's a reasonable expectation.

I respect him and like him. I understand his point of view but am going to disagree with him.

As Thurman Thomas would say, it's on like a mo fo now! O:-)

 

I think the goal will be make the playoffs this year and start cup runs next year ending in the conference finals next year exactly as he says people will feel, and the cup in the third season.

 

Am I wrong? Or is he? We are most certainly on an excellerated path now. It's a good listen.

 

http://media.wgr550.com/device/mobile/a/107065173/7-2-sportsnet-s-john-shannon-talks-free-agency.htm?

[PromoTheRobot]

I heard that too. The whole argument is based on the notion that GMTM will suddenly abandon his plan if the Sabres are good. Seriously? Tim Murray gives no f###s whether the Sabres are in the playoff hunt or dead last. The plan will be adhered to.

[Weave]

I think you both are wrong.

 

I don't think there is anything to be gained by not making the playoffs this season (and nothing to be lost by making them), but I don't think GMTM's goal is to make the playoffs this season.  I think the goal is to see how far the young kids can go, and adjust in the future as necessary so that Conference Finals do become a reasonable expectation.

Edited July 3, 2015 by weave

[PromoTheRobot]

I think you both are wrong.

 

I don't think there is anything to be gained by not making the playoffs this season (and nothing to be lost by making them), but I don't think GMTM's goal is to make the playoffs this season. I think the goal is to see how far the young kids can go, and adjust in the future as necessary so that Conference Finals do become a reasonable expectation.

How is what you said different from what I said? Murray has a plan he will stick to. That includes adjustments.

[Weave]

How is what you said different from what I said? Murray has a plan he will stick to. That includes adjustments.

 

It isn't.  And I wasn't quoting you.  In fact, we were posting at the same time.

 

have some coffee.

 

 

LOL< I can see where you thought I was answering you.  The both in my reply refers to the OP and Shannon.

Edited July 3, 2015 by weave

[PromoTheRobot]

Sorry. Just when I read "you're both wrong" I jump to conclusions.

[LGR4GM]

I think his argument was centered around overachieving instead of learning what it takes year in and year out.

[Weave]

Sorry. Just when I read "you're both wrong" I jump to conclusions.

 

 

:thumbsup:

[X. Benedict]

I think playoff experience is always valuable. Managing expectations two years out doesn't sound like a way to play.

[Weave]

I think playoff experience is always valuable. Managing expectations two years out doesn't sound like a way to play.

 

The game is different in the playoffs.  I don't think experiencing the playoffs adds to a players development other than, at some point they are going to have to learn how the game is different.  

 

If it happens this season, so be it.  IMO, if the kids are ready enough to make the playoffs, they are ready enough to learn how that game is different.

[apuszczalowski]

I think one of the biggest myths around here is that they have to take a certain amount of time to take a team to the status of being a contender. There is nothing wrong with them making the playoffs this year, that should always be the plan. The only issue would be with whether you sell the prospects and young players for older rentals to try and do it which the Sabres won't be doing. If they are in the hunt for the playoffs this year I don't see TM sitting back at the trade deadline and saying they don't want to try and make them. They will probably be a buyer at the deadline but won't be selling the farm just for a rental to help this year.

 

With free agency and trades no team needs to take more then a couple years to turn their franchise around if they have competent people in charge of doing it.

[LGR4GM]

The game is different in the playoffs.  I don't think experiencing the playoffs adds to a players development other than, at some point they are going to have to learn how the game is different.  

 

If it happens this season, so be it.  IMO, if the kids are ready enough to make the playoffs, they are ready enough to learn how that game is different.

Really the only true kids we have are Jack and Sam.  Risto and Zemgus have over 100 nhl games each and everyone else is early 20's.  I agree that making the playoffs this year would not be terrible.  I don't see Murray pulling a pitts and trading first round picks for depth at the deadline this year because of a playoff push. Murray has his plan and is executing it.

[mjd1001]

I actually agree with him 'literally'.

 

I think, long term, it would be best for the Sabres to not make the playoffs.  Not only low expecations, but they would also get that lottery pick again (to either use or as trade bait the higher it is).  But, that doesn't mean I don't WANT them to make the playoffs. I do.

 

I want them to make the playoffs, but they may be slightly better long term if they didn't this year.

[wjag]

I dismiss the whole expectations argument.  Get in and see what happens.  To play to be good next year is oh so Buffalo.

[PromoTheRobot]

I actually agree with him 'literally'.

 

I think, long term, it would be best for the Sabres to not make the playoffs.  Not only low expecations, but they would also get that lottery pick again (to either use or as trade bait the higher it is).  But, that doesn't mean I don't WANT them to make the playoffs. I do.

 

I want them to make the playoffs, but they may be slightly better long term if they didn't this year.

Lottery pick? Meh.

[Weave]

Listen to us.  talking about playoffs.  Isn't it the cutest?

[wjag]

Listen to us.  talking about playoffs.  Isn't it the cutest?

 

yeah.. they're probably closer to a lottery pick team than a playoff team and I expect them to be neither.  There is a whole lot of faith being put in Lehner/Johnson..

[X. Benedict]

yeah.. they're probably closer to a lottery pick team than a playoff team and I expect them to be neither.  There is a whole lot of faith being put in Lehner/Johnson..

 

True.The crease and we don't have the defense sorted out. Big minutes from Weber and McCabe don't make me hopeful yet. 

[beerme1]

I think you both are wrong.

 

I don't think there is anything to be gained by not making the playoffs this season (and nothing to be lost by making them), but I don't think GMTM's goal is to make the playoffs this season.  I think the goal is to see how far the young kids can go, and adjust in the future as necessary so that Conference Finals do become a reasonable expectation.

 

How am I wrong? Saying playoffs are the goal? Ok, that may not be the goal and I can agree with you that there is nothing to be gained by not making the playoffs. Well, short of missing and then lucking out and winning the lotto! But that is certainly not the goal. The goal will be to play high level hockey again and see where we end up. If it's playoffs, great. If we miss we miss.

However, I will say that with the upgrade in talent and coaching, I do expect we make the playoffs. Of course a lot could go wrong but the upgrades are there.

 

 

Listen to us.  talking about playoffs.  Isn't it the cutest?

 

 

I think we clearly have upgraded the talent to the point that we most certainly should talk about the playoffs for next season.

I actually agree with him 'literally'.

 

I think, long term, it would be best for the Sabres to not make the playoffs.  Not only low expecations, but they would also get that lottery pick again (to either use or as trade bait the higher it is).  But, that doesn't mean I don't WANT them to make the playoffs. I do.

 

I want them to make the playoffs, but they may be slightly better long term if they didn't this year.

 

 

I disagree with the thought that it will build them up long term by missing short term. Of course I want them to make the playoffs. Making it also gives them valuable experience that they miss out on if they miss the playoffs and we have plenty enough experience at that.

yeah.. they're probably closer to a lottery pick team than a playoff team and I expect them to be neither.  There is a whole lot of faith being put in Lehner/Johnson..

 

 

I have the same concern with the Goalie position but have faith that Murray wouldn't have done this without fully thinking that through. And Lehner has enough time in despite his age that he ought to be able to roll with this now.

I think one of the biggest myths around here is that they have to take a certain amount of time to take a team to the status of being a contender. There is nothing wrong with them making the playoffs this year, that should always be the plan. The only issue would be with whether you sell the prospects and young players for older rentals to try and do it which the Sabres won't be doing. If they are in the hunt for the playoffs this year I don't see TM sitting back at the trade deadline and saying they don't want to try and make them. They will probably be a buyer at the deadline but won't be selling the farm just for a rental to help this year.

 

With free agency and trades no team needs to take more then a couple years to turn their franchise around if they have competent people in charge of doing it.

 

 

Amen! No way are in a short term rental mode at the deadline. Absolutely no way. We are being built for the long term. In addition as I'm sure Murray knows, those deadline add on's rarely make a team a cup winner. I don't see Murray making a deadline deal for a number of years personally. Just like he feels about FA. That's not the best way to build a team.

I have full faith in him.

[IKnowPhysics]

Generally, I'm for the kids getting as much playoff experience as they can, while preparing the roster's inevitable dynasty.

[WildCard]

Making the playoffs isn't the same as making noise in them. I fail to see where this expectation for a conference final comes from, does this mean we should expect a Calgary - Winnnipeg and Ottawa - NYI Conference Finals? 

Edited July 3, 2015 by WildCard

[Weave]

How am I wrong? Saying playoffs are the goal? 

 

 

Yup.  That was what I was saying.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm not concerned about the team making the playoffs, I'm concerned about fan expectations being way too high, way too quickly and hearing nothing but doom & gloom when the team doesn't meet inflated expectations. 

[Taro T]

I'm not concerned about the team making the playoffs, I'm concerned about fan expectations being way too high, way too quickly and hearing nothing but doom & gloom when the team doesn't meet inflated expectations.

 

ANYTHING short of a Stanley Cup championship will bring SOME doom & gloom w/ it. (W/ the POSSIBLE exception of THIS year being a 1-2 series winner; and we'd probably get some there as well.)

 

That's just the nature of the beast. Can't see it being a large portion of the fanbase though, fortunately.

 

The guy that said the Sabres are better off missing the playoffs would be misguided. TM isn't going to get rentals to push this team into the playoffs; if they get there, it'll be organic and earned. They end the year w/ a ton of road games, so if they overcome the early season acclimation and the late season roadies, they'll have earned the attempt to grow playoff beards.

 

And I'd agree w/ Weave - the playoffs aren't the goal. BUT, they are A goal. Bring it on. Looking forward to it. :beer:

[Weave]

I'm not concerned about the team making the playoffs, I'm concerned about fan expectations being way too high, way too quickly and hearing nothing but doom & gloom when the team doesn't meet inflated expectations.

You should start ignoring people now.