I Don't Know How Anyone Could Be upset With The Moves

[CallawaySabres]

I know there was a ton of talk back and forth between the O'Reilly haters and lovers but come on, the moves Murray has made in the last few days have not only transformed this team, but sped up the rebuild by A LOT. I wanted O'Reilly badly before the trade and reading about him in the past few days from writers in Colorado, loving it even more. We now a true #1 and #2 center (if not two #1s), a starting goaltender and a coach who I believe is going to mold this group into a championship team. What is the point point of having assets if you can't use them to build a champion. Our picks at 21 and 31 would have taken years to develop and instead, we have legitimate NHLers to step in and really excel. Not only that, but the trades that GMTM has made are all for guys that are young enough to grow with this team.

 

We could either wait and see if the prospects pan out or strike when the iron is hot. With FA not even starting yet, there is a hell of a lot to look forward to THIS year. Looking at this lineup, we finally have players playing on the lines they are SUPPOSED to be on. No more seeing the likes of a Moulson on line 1 or a Stewart on line 2. The top 6 are solid and looking at that 3rd line, THAT is what a Stanley Cup 3rd line is supposed to look like (in my opinion). I am fired up and can't wait to this team grow right in front of our eyes. Bills and Sabres home openers this year.....fo...git....about.....it!

[ddaryl]

no way anyone could be upset.. We look like a team ready to be a force IMO

[...]

Something Murray said while talking about the Lehner deal helped me to soften up on my reaction to it; he said that every player in the league has had

that kind of injury at some point.  I figure that's probably more true than hyperbole.

 

I'm guilty of looking at some of these moves in a vacuum at first, but I'd like to think I can be reasonable enough to look at the big picture.  After I took some time to absorb the Lehner trade, and after hearing Murray talk about it, I'm good with it and believe it makes a lot of sense.  I decided not to react to the O'Reilly deal until I had some time to absorb it. 

 

Upon further reading, taking into account the details of the trade, and taking into account the opinions and viewpoints of those (here) whose hockey-think I respect, I like the move. 

 

And then, again, stepping back and surveying the big picture, Murray's vision is becoming crystal clear and I really, really dig it.  Each move, on its own, is a potential head-scratcher or cause for consternation on the surface, but after digging into the details, and looking at the moves together in context, I agree that there is absolutely nothing here to complain about.  Indeed, I am in awe, for the most part.

 

Add a good UFA D man and this team looks poised to way surpass the projections saying a 20 point increase would be an improvement. I feel they could contend for a wildcard slot, if not better.  And I believe that the vision is large enough and bold enough to make them Stanely Cup contenders.  How can anyone complain about that?

[Kristian]

no way anyone could be upset.. We look like a team ready to be a force IMO

D needs help, the forwards look good. On paper, yet.

[Kelly the Dog]

Gone are all the players who would disappear or loaf or go through the motions like Staff, Hodgson, even Zads at times.

 

Gone are all the players who shouldn't be in the league.

 

Gone are all the players who worked their ass off but really don't have the pure hockey talent to survive and prosper.

 

Gone is the coach that was more concerned with compete than scoring and defense.

 

With no stars

 

In their place are big, tough, hard working self starters with some skill or a boatload of skill, and a Stanley Cup winning coach with a couple solid assistants, a future bona fide superstar and two or three potential star players in Kane, OReilly and Reinhart.

[bunomatic]

Gone are all the players who would disappear or loaf or go through the motions like Staff, Hodgson, even Zads at times.

 

Gone are all the players who shouldn't be in the league.

 

Gone are all the players who worked their ass off but really don't have the pure hockey talent to survive and prosper.

 

Gone is the coach that was more concerned with compete than scoring and defense.

 

With no stars

 

In their place are big, tough, hard working self starters with some skill or a boatload of skill, and a Stanley Cup winning coach with a couple solid assistants, a future bona fide superstar and two or three potential star players in Kane, OReilly and Reinhart.

We b stylin :flirt:

[beerme1]

Mad respect for GMTM from me. More now than before and I was pretty impressed with him since he came to town. Some people will never accept anything if it's not exactly what they thought of and the way he operates ZFG style maybe puts some people off.

 

Too bad

ZFG

 

We significantly improved the hockey club.

[LGR4GM]

Haven't really heard anyone be overly upset about the moves.  Some questions about them but that is about it.

[CallawaySabres]

Haven't really heard anyone be overly upset about the moves.  Some questions about them but that is about it.

I recall many not wanting any part of Zadar over involved in O'Reilly trade and many were pissed about 21 for Lehner.

[2 minuter för grovbearbetn]

What I really appreciate is that GMTM is a chess player who sees the whole board. He had an intricate plan, and stuck to it. When he traded for Kane, Winnipeg got our last first round pick. He left nothing to chance. He was paying attention to the last bit of detail. He used pick 21 to get the goalie he wanted. Then in a press conference about that trade, he casually mentions that the guy he wants will be available at 31. 31 (and other players) turned out to be ROR. He sees the whole board. Sacrifice a rook to take the queen? Not a problem. Any of the moves by themselves and you think, eh... < shrug shoulders >. But put the whole board together, and you look at it and go, Oooooh!! 

 

I have no idea if we'll win the cup in 3 - 5 years, but I respect GMTM the player. 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2015 by 2_minutes_4_roughing

[ddaryl]

Something Murray said while talking about the Lehner deal helped me to soften up on my reaction to it; he said that every player in the league has had

that kind of injury at some point.  I figure that's probably more true than hyperbole.

 

I'm guilty of looking at some of these moves in a vacuum at first, but I'd like to think I can be reasonable enough to look at the big picture.  After I took some time to absorb the Lehner trade, and after hearing Murray talk about it, I'm good with it and believe it makes a lot of sense.  I decided not to react to the O'Reilly deal until I had some time to absorb it. 

 

Upon further reading, taking into account the details of the trade, and taking into account the opinions and viewpoints of those (here) whose hockey-think I respect, I like the move. 

 

And then, again, stepping back and surveying the big picture, Murray's vision is becoming crystal clear and I really, really dig it.  Each move, on its own, is a potential head-scratcher or cause for consternation on the surface, but after digging into the details, and looking at the moves together in context, I agree that there is absolutely nothing here to complain about.  Indeed, I am in awe, for the most part.

 

Add a good UFA D man and this team looks poised to way surpass the projections saying a 20 point increase would be an improvement. I feel they could contend for a wildcard slot, if not better.  And I believe that the vision is large enough and bold enough to make them Stanely Cup contenders.  How can anyone complain about that?

 

 

that is the most well written recant I have ever read on a sports forum

[bunomatic]

Wasn't upset about the trade for the goalie. Felt it was a bit high but draftpicks are a crapshoot. Regier would still be waiting for the market to set. In the ROR situation I went on record saying I didn't like the idea of selling the farm to get him but I'm hyped for the future of this team because GMTM had the cajones to do it. This is how you build a team. The hockey pundits throughout the league are raving about GMTMs style and how he was in on everything.  This guy has people talking. The sabres are on everyones radar and its in a good way. We have become a destination and free agency is about to open. Whats not to like?

[SabresFanInRochester]

I like the direction that Murray is going. I have not been critical of him here, but he does seem to consistently give up one too many assets to acquire a target.

 

Starting with the Evander Kane trade: I thought we gave up one too many prospects.

The Lehner trade: I thought that #21 was a high pick to give up. Especially since Buffalo had to take on Legwand, which was a complete favor. After Cam Talbot was had for a 3rd, 4th, and future pick, I still maintain that #21 was too high. If Lehner becomes a top goalie for Buffalo, I will eat my shorts, and GMTM's shorts, and not that I want to, but for the sake of winning, I would.

And the ROR trade: I thought the #21 pick would have to be used here, so I guess it's all semantics whether Lehner was the #21 or #31. However, I thought Compher was just one too many assets yet again. The trade seemed fine, until that piece.

 

It just seems that GMTM is so determined to get his target that he doesn't care what he gives up, and seems to overpay one piece each time. Maybe not a big deal once, but since it appears to be a pattern, those are some assets that we will no longer have in the farm system.

 

I know GMTM wants a defenseman, and mentioned acquiring via trade. I just say, watch out, because if the trend continues, we're going to see a Sabre dealt, who we really liked and saw as a part of the team.

 

Overall, I like the direction he is going. But, I didn't think we needed a goalie that badly. And my concern is that we are paying too much and will lack the pieces moving up in a few years because GMTM keeps shipping them off to close the deal.

[K-9]

I recall many not wanting any part of Zadar over involved in O'Reilly trade and many were pissed about 21 for Lehner.

I don't know. Since we started speculating on ROR I don't know how many months ago, it was always Nikita, Grigo, and 21 to get it done. If there were some worried about Z, I don't recall it. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

When Zero Fuxgiven traded for Kane I initially thought maybe he gave up too much. Until I saw that Bogosian was flat out a better player than Myers and then I no longer thought he gave up too much, but that it was probably a steal.

[dejeanneret]

Gone are all the players who would disappear or loaf or go through the motions like Staff, Hodgson, even Zads at times.

 

Gone are all the players who shouldn't be in the league.

 

Gone are all the players who worked their ass off but really don't have the pure hockey talent to survive and prosper.

 

Gone is the coach that was more concerned with compete than scoring and defense.

 

With no stars

 

In their place are big, tough, hard working self starters with some skill or a boatload of skill, and a Stanley Cup winning coach with a couple solid assistants, a future bona fide superstar and two or three potential star players in Kane, OReilly and Reinhart.

That's the problem when some fans follow a team so closely.  They attach a higher value to a player instead of seeing them who they really are. 

 

We were a last place team two years in a row with the talent we had.  So to grab a GREAT player like Kane or OReilly is worth giving up a bunch of "mediocre".  Grigs wasn't going to sign with us anyways since he wanted a one way deal.  Zadorov granted was the stud of the deal, but you have to give up SOMETHING.  A 31st pick or Compher are neither guaranteed to make the league. 

 

Same with the 21st pick. 

 

Even with the players we let go, there STILL isn't room on the roster for everyone.  Were still going to have to either cut or trade players who we "valued" last year.  When we add FA pieces, it's going to be more competitive and more players who we stuck a flag in the sand for last year will be gone.

 

Thats what happens when you finish last two years in a row.  It means your not good.

Edited June 29, 2015 by dejeanneret

[LGR4GM]

When Zero Fuxgiven traded for Kane I initially thought maybe he gave up too much. Until I saw that Bogosian was flat out a better player than Myers and then I no longer thought he gave up too much, but that it was probably a steal.

Myers has more natural talent, Bogosian has more natural hockey IQ.  Game 7 I would trust Bogosian, Myers... not so much.

[dejeanneret]

I don't know. Since we started speculating on ROR I don't know how many months ago, it was always Nikita, Grigo, and 21 to get it done. If there were some worried about Z, I don't recall it. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

I believe not being able to get Lehner for 31st cost us Compher.

 

TM admitted he tried until draft day to trade Lehner for 31 and was told it's either 21 or nothing.  He had to make a move or get off the pot, so he did it.

 

When the ROR deal changed from 21 to 31, I have a feeling the Avs wanted Compher. 

[Taro T]

I like the direction that Murray is going. I have not been critical of him here, but he does seem to consistently give up one too many assets to acquire a target.

 

Starting with the Evander Kane trade: I thought we gave up one too many prospects.

The Lehner trade: I thought that #21 was a high pick to give up. Especially since Buffalo had to take on Legwand, which was a complete favor. After Cam Talbot was had for a 3rd, 4th, and future pick, I still maintain that #21 was too high. If Lehner becomes a top goalie for Buffalo, I will eat my shorts, and GMTM's shorts, and not that I want to, but for the sake of winning, I would.

And the ROR trade: I thought the #21 pick would have to be used here, so I guess it's all semantics whether Lehner was the #21 or #31. However, I thought Compher was just one too many assets yet again. The trade seemed fine, until that piece.

 

It just seems that GMTM is so determined to get his target that he doesn't care what he gives up, and seems to overpay one piece each time. Maybe not a big deal once, but since it appears to be a pattern, those are some assets that we will no longer have in the farm system.

 

I know GMTM wants a defenseman, and mentioned acquiring via trade. I just say, watch out, because if the trend continues, we're going to see a Sabre dealt, who we really liked and saw as a part of the team.

 

Overall, I like the direction he is going. But, I didn't think we needed a goalie that badly. And my concern is that we are paying too much and will lack the pieces moving up in a few years[/s] because GMTM keeps shipping them off to close the deal.

Don't know that Lehner is a top 10 - top 15 goalie, but TM seems to think he is. Without a goalie, this is not a playoff team; but with one, depending on how quickly these guys can gel together, they may be.

 

How far off is "a few years" as for not having the assets to improve this team? You only get to have 50 guys under contract. 2nd - 3rd round guys (even ones taken high in those rounds like Compher and Lemieux) are easily obtainable and are replaceable. Guys that are currently under 27 on this team include: Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly, Kane, Ennis, Girgensons, Ristolainen, Bogosian, Pysyk, Foligno, Deslauriers, Larsson, McCabe, and Lehner. McGinn is only 27. Granted they won't all be here for the duration but this team is at a place where rather than replacing half of them each year they'll be replacing ~4 each year. 1-2 replacements via FA, and they're looking at having prospects / picks accounting for 2-3 new bodies each year. Especially knowing they plan to have Fasching in a year to two, it is difficult to see just where this team is hurting for assets that can become solid NHLers to add to what is currently here for several years to come.

[Drunkard]

Murray seems to have a pattern of paying whatever it takes to get the guy he's targeting. That's fine since we had previously been hoarding and stockpiling picks and prospects and because his predecessor seemed to have the exact opposite mindset. I don't have a problem with being the perceived loser in any trade if it allows him to get his guy(s) and build the team. I thought he overpaid for Lehner and I still do but I'm ok with that because he's young and under contract. I thought he overpaid by either Armia or Lemieux for Kane and Bogosian but again that's ok because he got his guys.

 

I still think the O'Reilly trade was a mistake but nothing to do now but wait and see. Not happy about trading Zadorov because I pictured him and Ristolainen being our top pair D for the next decade but like everyone says you have to give to get and that seemed to be the price. I like O'Reilly as a player and it's great that he'll be able to shelter our young centers initially but I think he is incredibly over rated and the assets given up to get him and the cap space he'll take up would be better utilized in other areas. We just tanked to unbelievably proportions for 2 seasons to get our franchise centers. Now we are going to overpay a young established veteran to either take one of their spots or to play out of position. The move will be good for the next 2-3 years but once Eichel and Reinhart are ready then somebody has to move out of position to the wing or down to the 3rd line. At this point I just hope they can extend him for less than $8 million per year because he's definitely got the upper hand in negotiations at this point and if his agent tells him he can get $9+ million from Toronto next summer and he decides to pursue UFA the Sabres are fu%#ed with a splintered broom handle.

 

The other part that bugs me is why add McGinn to it? We already have enough left handed wingers with Kane, Moulson, Ennis, Foligno, and Deslauriers with a strong possibility that Larsson and Girgensons could be shifted to wing because of our depth at center. If he was a throw in why couldn't Murrary get a right winger instead? Why not tell them to keep McGinn and we keep Compher instead? Legwand seems like a buyout candidate but I doubt McGinn is. I doubt we're going to be able to package 2 or 3 of these left handed forwards off for a left handed defensemen and if we do, they'd probably want the ones we'd prefer to keep and not our extra pieces.

[TrueBlueGED]

O'Reilly's best offensive season came playing on Duchene's wing. If Eichel and Reinhart do relegate him to that position, he'll give 1st line production there. It's a non issue. As for McGinn, their public comments certainly indicate they like him. There is a bit of a numbers game, but some camp competition never hurt anyone and there will be injuries, and having NHL players to fill in is far preferable to AHL players.

[LGR4GM]

O'Reilly's best offensive season came playing on Duchene's wing. If Eichel and Reinhart do relegate him to that position, he'll give 1st line production there. It's a non issue. As for McGinn, their public comments certainly indicate they like him. There is a bit of a numbers game, but some camp competition never hurt anyone and there will be injuries, and having NHL players to fill in is far preferable to AHL players.

His best offensive season also saw an unsustainable rise in his sh%

[TrueBlueGED]

His best offensive season also saw an unsustainable rise in his sh%

Maybe. Could it be that the rise in shooting percentage was attributable to playing wing to Duchene rather than center to wings he had to feed the puck to? I don't know, but it's not insane to think at least a portion of that uptick would be role/position driven.

[Doohicksie]

Look at the roster before and after. There's your answer right there. I think there are few people who would prefer the roster from before last Friday over what it is now.

 

There is the concern over what gives up in terms of picks and prospects and how that will affect the future, but he has to build a winner first and frankly I wouldn't call the prospect pool gutted.

[LGR4GM]

Maybe. Could it be that the rise in shooting percentage was attributable to playing wing to Duchene rather than center to wings he had to feed the puck to? I don't know, but it's not insane to think at least a portion of that uptick would be role/position driven.

The uptick was too much.  I could see a slight improvement on the wing but ROR is a puck distributor more than a shooter.  Doesn't take away from him at all, he will have very good wingers to dish too. Ennis and Kane can score.