MattPie Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Not the same at all. Under the point system two ties equal a win which is ridiculous. Not exactly, two ties equal a win and a loss, which makes perfect sense.
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 My point is you're overreacting just like you did throughout the tank. One bad trade does not a mediocre GM make. How is he not mediocre? Just not being Regier isn't enough to make you a great GM. He gets fixated on players and then gives up a bunch to get them. We gave up two 2nd round picks for Gorges last summer -- why was that again? Now we suddenly gave up a huge asset to get Lehner (so much so that Ottawa is now in on O'Reilly). We gave up a lot in the Fasching and Kane/Bogosian trades as well. Meanwhile, has he fleeced anyone or made a trade to maximize our value yet? After this weekend, we're pretty much out of all the extra assets we started building up under Regier. What happens when he can't overpay for everything he wants? Everyone loves the interviews but he's nothing special so far.
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 How is he not mediocre? Just not being Regier isn't enough to make you a great GM. He gets fixated on players and then gives up a bunch to get them. We gave up two 2nd round picks for Gorges last summer -- why was that again? Now we suddenly gave up a huge asset to get Lehner (so much so that Ottawa is now in on O'Reilly). We gave up a lot in the Fasching and Kane/Bogosian trades as well. Meanwhile, has he fleeced anyone or made a trade to maximize our value yet? After this weekend, we're pretty much out of all the extra assets we started building up under Regier. What happens when he can't overpay for everything he wants? Everyone loves the interviews but he's nothing special so far. Gorges was for 1 2nd round pick in 2016 McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers which at this point is a wash Kane/Bogo we can't rate yet. Lehner we can't rate yet ROR has not been moved yet so you can't make that claim either. You can argue he overpays but so far he has been very special. He has actually attempted to build a hockey team. Darcy Regier only ever attempted to win trades which is why we had 1 center between 2008 and 2012.
Hoss Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Robin Lehner, David Legwand, William Carrier, Chad Johnson, a third and a 2017 2nd.
shrader Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Robin Lehner, David Legwand, William Carrier, Chad Johnson, a third and a 2017 2nd. It was the Islander pick that went for Lehner though, wasn't it? This game of trying to trace back trades always winds up getting very trick. Edited June 26, 2015 by shrader
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Gorges was for 1 2nd round pick in 2016 McNabb and 2 2nds for Fasching and Deslauriers which at this point is a wash Kane/Bogo we can't rate yet. Lehner we can't rate yet ROR has not been moved yet so you can't make that claim either. You can argue he overpays but so far he has been very special. He has actually attempted to build a hockey team. Darcy Regier only ever attempted to win trades which is why we had 1 center between 2008 and 2012. So we're right back to "He's awesome because he's not Regier."
spndnchz Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 It was the Islander pick that went for Lehner though, wasn't it? This game of trying to trace back trades always winds up getting very trick. Yes.
shrader Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Yea I confused the two firsts. I'll give you a pass. Thanks to the Kane deal, those two picks are forever tied together in my mind.
qwksndmonster Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 So we're right back to "He's awesome because he's not Regier." Yep. And other than the few moves we've seen from GMTM, that's about all we have to go on. We'll know if he can build a team eventually.
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 So we're right back to "He's awesome because he's not Regier." I didn't say he was awesome. I said he was trying to build a team which is clearly what his moves indicate. I can't give that credit to Darcy.
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Yep. And other than the few moves we've seen from GMTM, that's about all we have to go on. We'll know if he can build a team eventually. Maybe he can. Maybe it'll turn out he's awesome. So far he's just mediocre and he's doing a lot because his predecessor stocked up a ton of assets for him. I didn't say he was awesome. I said he was trying to build a team which is clearly what his moves indicate. I can't give that credit to Darcy. Except for that time he built the best team we ever had. Regier did a ton of weird things in his last few years here and ultimately had to go but "not Darcy" isn't the same as good GM. A lot of GMs are terrible because they're the exact opposite of Darcy Regier.
qwksndmonster Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Maybe he can. Maybe it'll turn out he's awesome. So far he's just mediocre and he's doing a lot because his predecessor stocked up a ton of assets for him. Darcy certainly tore the team down. Yaaaaaay :mellow: I personally like the moves GMTM has made toward developing our roster. Kane, Lehner, and Bogosian all seem like good pieces moving forward to me. Deslauriers and Fasching seem promising so far.
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 Maybe he can. Maybe it'll turn out he's awesome. So far he's just mediocre and he's doing a lot because his predecessor stocked up a ton of assets for him. Except for that time he built the best team we ever had. Regier did a ton of weird things in his last few years here and ultimately had to go but "not Darcy" isn't the same as good GM. A lot of GMs are terrible because they're the exact opposite of Darcy Regier. The a good team we had which he then dismantled over the course of the next 5 seasons. Sure let's give him credit for that
dudacek Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Opinion on GMTM has been mostly about his personality. We'll start to be able to judge his moves better when we see what guys like Lehner, Kane, Bogo, Eichel and Reinhart do next year. Those are his choices to be our core.
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 The a good team we had which he then dismantled over the course of the next 5 seasons. Sure let's give him credit for that That team was dismantled on Black Sunday -- which definitely wasn't his fault (see: Quinn and OSP). You think he wanted to let Briere and Drury walk?
Randall Flagg Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 Why does Darcy keep getting brought up
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 That team was dismantled on Black Sunday -- which definitely wasn't his fault (see: Quinn and OSP). You think he wanted to let Briere and Drury walk? I don't care what he wanted. I care what he did. DR is and will forever be a yes man. Also Drury and Briere weren't the only pieces that made the 05 team special. Why does Darcy keep getting brought up Cuz robviously has a erection lasting longer than 4 hours for him and won't seek medical attention.
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I don't care what he wanted. I care what he did. DR is and will forever be a yes man. Also Drury and Briere weren't the only pieces that made the 05 team special. In the adult world, sometimes you either agree to do what your boss wants or you get fired. I'm not going to blame Regier for working under the constraints he was given. Cuz robviously has a erection lasting longer than 4 hours for him and won't seek medical attention. Sick burn, bro. Edited June 26, 2015 by Robviously
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 How is he not mediocre? Just not being Regier isn't enough to make you a great GM. He gets fixated on players and then gives up a bunch to get them. We gave up two 2nd round picks for Gorges last summer -- why was that again? Now we suddenly gave up a huge asset to get Lehner (so much so that Ottawa is now in on O'Reilly). We gave up a lot in the Fasching and Kane/Bogosian trades as well. Meanwhile, has he fleeced anyone or made a trade to maximize our value yet? After this weekend, we're pretty much out of all the extra assets we started building up under Regier. What happens when he can't overpay for everything he wants? Everyone loves the interviews but he's nothing special so far. I have no idea how you can have such a definitive opinion on him when, as you admit, he's simply been trying to lose games to this point. Basically all of his moves have to be graded "incomplete" by their nature and combined with the team's goals that labeling him "mediocre" because some of those deals don't conform to your perception of fair value is totally premature. I think there's a really solid consensus that #21 for Lehner + Legwand salary dump is an overpayment. But the Kane and McNabb trades? Absolutely not. The Myers/Bogosian aspect of that trade is essentially a wash, so we're left with Armia, Lemieux, Stafford, #25. Armia is looking a lot closer to bust than boom, Lemieux had a nice post-draft junior year but is still very much a projected 3rd line NHL player, and Stafford's value as a rental was around a 2nd-3rd round pick. So we got a 1st line forward for a prospect trending down, a 3rd line prospect, a late 1st and a late 2nd/3rd. How is that definitively bad value? It's only bad value if you're overrating Armia and Lemieux. McNabb is a 3rd pairing defenseman and Deslaurier is a 4th liner, about equal value. So basically you're looking at two 2nds (#60 last year and #43 this year) for Fasching, a 4th rounder whose first year in the NCAA exceeded his draft status. So two mid-late 2nds for a prospect whose most likely projection is a 3rd liner. Given the bust rates of picks in that range, isn't that about right? I just don't see the facts backing up the horrible value meme that has developed. Circling back to my original point, too much of this is impossible to evaluate at this point to have a firm judgment. I love Murray's style and I will readily admit part of his appeal is being the anti-Regier with respect to his aggressiveness. But can we give him a couple of years of trying to build a team before saying he has proven to be mediocre? Opinion on GMTM has been mostly about his personality. We'll start to be able to judge his moves better when we see what guys like Lehner, Kane, Bogo, Eichel and Reinhart do next year. Those are his choices to be our core. This guy said what I said, only much more succinctly.
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 In the adult world, sometimes you either agree to do what your boss wants or you get fired. I'm not going to blame Regier for working under the constraints he was given. Sick burn, bro. In the adult world you are either a leader or a follower. DR is a follower. It was a sick burn bro, thanks for recognizing that dude bro man.
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 In the adult world you are either a leader or a follower. DR is a follower. It was a sick burn bro, thanks for recognizing that dude bro man. How old are you? This feels like a college student's concept of what being an adult with a career is.
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 How old are you? This feels like a college student's concept of what being an adult with a career is. I'm 12, how old are you mister? DR was a yes man more concerned with keeping his job than taking risks and fighting for what he believed. In the adult world, that keeps you employed in whatever job you got sure, but you aren't being moved up anytime soon. You know what keeps me relevant at my job? Being out front, being innovative, and taking risks on occasion.
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Posted June 26, 2015 I'm 12, how old are you mister? DR was a yes man more concerned with keeping his job than taking risks and fighting for what he believed. In the adult world, that keeps you employed in whatever job you got sure, but you aren't being moved up anytime soon. You know what keeps me relevant at my job? Being out front, being innovative, and taking risks on occasion. He was the GM -- where was he trying to be moved up to? Yes, he should have been more aggressive on trades. But when he was told the team wouldn't re-sign Drury and Briere, was he supposed to just quit "for what he believed"? That's ridiculous.
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Author Report Posted June 26, 2015 He was the GM -- where was he trying to be moved up to? Yes, he should have been more aggressive on trades. But when he was told the team wouldn't re-sign Drury and Briere, was he supposed to just quit "for what he believed"? That's ridiculous. He could of moved up to Stanley Cup Champion? No he should have fought for Drury and Briere and should have gone out and fought to get someone other than just Derek Roy for center. Darcy was a yes man.
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