Eleven Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Plenty of cheap shots now. Fighting hasn't prevented them. No, but the instigator rule has encouraged them.
nucci Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 No, but the instigator rule has encouraged them. Yep, I agree with that...I guess the older I get fighting seems ridiculous to me....
dudacek Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) If fighting discourages cheap shots, how do you explain Radko Gudas, Pat Kaleta, Matt Cooke, Chris Neil, Sean Avery, Matt Barnaby, Rich Pilon, Ulf Samuelsson, Dale Hunter, Neil Sheehy, Nevin Markwart, Behn Wilson, Pat Price, Paul Baxter, Ken Linseman, Garry Howatt, Pat Bouttette, Tiger Williams, Dennis Polonich, Bugsy Watson, the Broad Street Bullies... Shall I go on? Hockey has always had cheap shot artists and fighting has only been an element of revenge, not deterrence. Edited March 20, 2016 by dudacek
Stoner Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks to the commenters who made any commenting on my part completely pointless. I will ask this: when did fighting start in the NHL?
WildCard Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 If fighting discourages cheap shots, how do you explain Radko Gudas, Pat Kaleta, Matt Cooke, Chris Neil, Sean Avery, Matt Barnaby, Rich Pilon, Ulf Samuelsson, Dale Hunter, Neil Sheehy, Nevin Markwart, Behn Wilson, Pat Price, Paul Baxter, Ken Linseman, Garry Howatt, Pat Bouttette, Tiger Williams, Dennis Polonich, Bugsy Watson, the Broad Street Bullies... Shall I go on? Hockey has always had cheap shot artists and fighting has only been an element of revenge, not deterrence. Fine, then take revenge out. What's to stop more cheap shots then?
dudacek Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Fine, then take revenge out. What's to stop more cheap shots then? A culture where GMs are sickened by players like Gudas, not trading high picks for them at the deadline. You agree fighting as a deterrent is an abysmal failure?
darksabre Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 I don't think fighting was ever intended to be a deterrent.
WildCard Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 A culture where GMs are sickened by players like Gudas, not trading high picks for them at the deadline. You agree fighting as a deterrent is an abysmal failure? What's the first thing everyone says in the GDT when Sam and Jack get run at? 'Such-and-such better go kick such-and-such's ass'. Miller gets run over by Lucic, and what do we all bemoan? That nobody fought Lucic. For years we complained how soft we were, and that teams walked all over us and took liberties with us. Does fighting not prevent that? I don't think fighting was ever intended to be a deterrent. Then what is the entire point of the enforcer? Didn't Gretzky even have one on his line to ensure he didn't get murdered?
dudacek Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) The biggest myth in hockey is that fighting is there to deter cheap shots. It's a lie told by GMs to the Chris Nilans and John Kordics of the world to give them a false sense of nobility and manipulate them into doing their dirty work. Fighting in hockey exists to intimidate, nothing more, nothing less. It is there to deter players from going hard into the corners or playing tough defence; it is there to create space for skill players to do what they do best. It is a tactic used by coaches to help their teams win. It Is a sanctioned manifestation of schoolyard bullying and it works because the paying customer buys into the storyline that our guy is the good guy. Edited March 20, 2016 by dudacek
WildCard Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 The biggest myth in hockey is that fighting is there to deter cheap shots. It's a lie told by GMs to the Chris Nilans and John Kordics of the world to give them a false sense of nobility and manipulate them into doing their dirty work. Fighting in hockey exists to intimidate, nothing more, nothing less. It is there to deter players from going hard into the corners or playing tough defence; it is there to create space for skill players to do what they do best. It is a tactic used by coaches to help their teams win. It Is a sanctioned manifestation of schoolyard bullying and it works because the paying customer buys into the storyline that our guy is the good guy. No offense, but that still doesn't answer my question about what we do in the Lucic situation, or when our rookies are targeted. Do we just retaliate, and go after their goalie/rookies?
Weave Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Dudacek wins the thread. No offense, but that still doesn't answer my question about what we do in the Lucic situation, or when our rookies are targeted. Do we just retaliate, and go after their goalie/rookies? You retaliate to prevent the intimidation from working. Sam needs to know someone has his back.
WildCard Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 You retaliate to prevent the intimidation from working. Sam needs to know someone has his back. So, you fight them?
Weave Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 So, you fight them? In most cases, yeah. Granted, Detroit seems to have avoided intimidation with a turn the other cheek policy......
darksabre Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 What's the first thing everyone says in the GDT when Sam and Jack get run at? 'Such-and-such better go kick such-and-such's ass'. Miller gets run over by Lucic, and what do we all bemoan? That nobody fought Lucic. For years we complained how soft we were, and that teams walked all over us and took liberties with us. Does fighting not prevent that? Then what is the entire point of the enforcer? Didn't Gretzky even have one on his line to ensure he didn't get murdered? Anyone who thinks Gretzky needed an enforcer doesn't understand that no player in the league was going to risk being banned for going after Gretzky. Cheap-shotting Gretzky would be a one way ticket to the unemployment line. Gretzky's status protected him.
WildCard Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Anyone who thinks Gretzky needed an enforcer doesn't understand that no player in the league was going to risk being banned for going after Gretzky. Cheap-shotting Gretzky would be a one way ticket to the unemployment line. Gretzky's status protected him. Like Crosby's has protected him?
dudacek Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 No offense, but that still doesn't answer my question about what we do in the Lucic situation, or when our rookies are targeted. Do we just retaliate, and go after their goalie/rookies? We're in danger of talking past each other. I'm saying the threat of a fight would not have stopped Lucic from running Miller. In answer to your question, In the current psychology of the game, we need to do what Bogo did with Phaneuf. Not because it will deter Phaneuf from more cheap shots, but because it makes the Sabres feel more like a band of brothers who will stick up for each other. It's all about who is the alpha male it least in the minds of the two teams involved.
Eleven Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Don't know if someone posted this already, but I do know that someone recently asked: James Mirtle Verified account@mirtle HNIC announces NHL draft lottery will be on April 30th. All Canadian NHL teams interested.
Norcal Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Noticed something while watching a couple Canes games recently. The Sabres broadcast team was calling Cane defender Michael Jordan name like the former bball player for the Bulls. Everyone else pronounces it Yourdon. Eh, Rasmussen Ristolainen, who's listening anyways
Rasmus_ Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Don't know if someone posted this already, but I do know that someone recently asked: James Mirtle Verified account@mirtle HNIC announces NHL draft lottery will be on April 30th. All Canadian NHL teams interested. Buffalo became the 8th Canadian market correcto?
darksabre Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Like Crosby's has protected him? He's only been hurt what, once? The Pens have never seen the need to protect him. His reputation takes care of him.
WildCard Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 He's only been hurt what, once? The Pens have never seen the need to protect him. His reputation takes care of him. He's had two severe concussions from cheap shots. His reputation has done nothing to protect him
Randall Flagg Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 He's had two severe concussions from cheap shots. His reputation has done nothing to protect him One of those was Myers, and that wasn't a dirty hit from Myers because he knew no one was there to fight Crosby, it was just a typical Myers not understanding how to deliver a clean check.
K-9 Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 Anyone who thinks Gretzky needed an enforcer doesn't understand that no player in the league was going to risk being banned for going after Gretzky. Cheap-shotting Gretzky would be a one way ticket to the unemployment line. Gretzky's status protected him. Marty McSorley says hi. GO SABRES!!!
Thorner Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 The biggest myth in hockey is that fighting is there to deter cheap shots. It's a lie told by GMs to the Chris Nilans and John Kordics of the world to give them a false sense of nobility and manipulate them into doing their dirty work. Fighting in hockey exists to intimidate, nothing more, nothing less. It is there to deter players from going hard into the corners or playing tough defence; it is there to create space for skill players to do what they do best. It is a tactic used by coaches to help their teams win. It Is a sanctioned manifestation of schoolyard bullying and it works because the paying customer buys into the storyline that our guy is the good guy. Another outstanding Point of View from our own Rex Murphy (CBC)
Eleven Posted March 20, 2016 Report Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Marty McSorley says hi. GO SABRES!!! So does Esa Tikkanen. MacTavish was no slouch, either. Edited March 20, 2016 by Eleven
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