That Aud Smell Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 How can that happen? Jeebus. Can't watch the video yet, but that is just ... I can't even. Just when I think the NHL can't make itself look any more poorly managed.
darksabre Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 How can that happen? Right? Does the team not get fined for this?
Neo Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Dear rules committee: A concussed human being cannot accurately self assess. Respectfully yours, Common Sense. CC: NHLPA. Gross Over-Simplification. The suspension should be 0 games or Life, depending on the medical report.
That Aud Smell Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Gross Over-Simplification. The suspension should be 0 games or Life, depending on the medical report. That is just it. The attempt to split the difference is just so, so stupid. A possible (albeit theoretical) alternative: Eliminate 'intent' as an element in the applicable rule. Strict liability. Chargeable as a criminal violation, like speeding. Problem with that: Players who truck a ref without intent aren't generally punished. Except Wideman. Because he said he wasn't concussed. Seriously. Sometimes I just hate the NHL.
Weave Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 That is just it. The attempt to split the difference is just so, so stupid. A possible (albeit theoretical) alternative: Eliminate 'intent' as an element in the applicable rule. Strict liability. Chargeable as a criminal violation, like speeding. Problem with that: Players who truck a ref without intent aren't generally punished. Except Wideman. Because he said he wasn't concussed. Seriously. Sometimes I just hate the NHL. I don't understand the mindset, but at least a couple of the guys on the Montreal broadcast shared it. A couple of them were arguing that Wideman not submitting to evaluation was evidence that he should be suspended. There is still alot of dinosaur out there that doesn't want to see head injuries for what they really are.
Neo Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Confession: it was easy for me to provide a gross over simplification. I can defend the logic. However, the league has more parties it's responsible to than I have. Pure logic at the expense of anything else isn't one of the parties. I just heard the full league's pronouncement on Sirius XM. They admitted to splitting the baby and acknowledged the concussion. Perhaps their gray is better than my black and white. Paraphrasing - He was concussed, but had the presence of mind and control of his faculties sufficient to skate steadily to the bench, tap the ice and raise his stick for a line change, and return to action. He was quite aware of his surroundings. Although cloudy, judgment was present and the act was deliberate. #WorldsFastestBacktracker PS: An interesting conversation could follow regarding medical help, a player's input, and the pressures of competitive world class competition and huge dollars. Ask a man making huge money at the top of his profession, with hundreds of nearly as capable men lined up to take his joy/livelihood away, if he wants to submit to a test that becomes a negative part of his record if he fails it. "No, I'm good" is what you'll get. This is a big NHLPA hot potato, I'm sure. Edited February 4, 2016 by N'eo
LTS Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Let's bring some positives to the table: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Video-Corey-Crawford-Babysits-Pair-of-Lucky-Blackhawks-Fans--367538291.html
That Aud Smell Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 He was concussed, but had the presence of mind and control of his faculties sufficient to skate steadily to the bench, tap the ice and raise his stick for a line change, and return to action. He was quite aware of his surroundings. Although cloudy, judgment was present and the act was deliberate. Jesus Christ on a goddam popsicle stick. (Not you, N'eo.) As the league is undoubtedly aware, athletes can do ALL sorts of coordinated physical things when they are suffering from the initial effects of a concussion. Skating, stick tapping, throwing a ball, flashing the glove at a puck, swinging a bit -- that sort of stuff can happen on a sort of autopilot. A guy who's been concussed is not always (in fact, is often NOT) the proverbial wobbly legged baby deer. The NHL is stupid.
SwampD Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Jesus Christ on a goddam popsicle stick. (Not you, N'eo.) As the league is undoubtedly aware, athletes can do ALL sorts of coordinated physical things when they are suffering from the initial effects of a concussion. Skating, stick tapping, throwing a ball, flashing the glove at a puck, swinging a bit -- that sort of stuff can happen on a sort of autopilot. A guy who's been concussed is not always (in fact, is often NOT) the proverbial wobbly legged baby deer. The NHL is stupid. Does anyone else think he may not actually be concussed, but is just using that as an excuse for doing something that even he has no idea why he did what he did?
That Aud Smell Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Does anyone else think he may not actually be concussed, but is just using that as an excuse for doing something that even he has no idea why he did what he did? That's possible. Far more probable (given his track record): He was concussed, didn't want to admit he was, had his team and the league fail to take appropriate intervention, then sorta came back and said maybe I was a little disoriented, and now we have a 20-game ban that should've either been closer to zero or the rest of the season.
Eleven Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Does anyone else think he may not actually be concussed, but is just using that as an excuse for doing something that even he has no idea why he did what he did? No; the league confirmed the concussion: https://twitter.com/NHLonNBCSports/status/695050962289856512
inkman Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Jeebus. Can't watch the video yet, but that is just ... I can't even. Just when I think the NHL can't make itself look any more poorly managed. Give it some time
Eleven Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Former Sabres Grant Ledyard and Mike Robitaille join the players lawsuit against the league for concussions. Ledyard talks of daily headaches, mood swings, depression, and drinks every night to get to sleep. Watching the Montreal feed for the game tonight. They had an interesting conversation about the Wideman suspension. Apparently the league spotter that informs teams of players that may have a head hit told the Calgary bench that Wideman needed to be evaluated. Wideman declined to go to the room. To me, that's good enough reason for the suspension right there.
That Aud Smell Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 To me, that's good enough reason for the suspension right there. I think maybe that's the subtext here. But there's no rule that'd put a player on notice that the league might dole out discipline on that basis.
TrueBlueGED Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I complained about this already, but NHL.com is just impossible to use. Modern website design in general is just awful, especially if you're using a desktop with a large monitor. I know the entire industry is trending mobile, I get that, but these giant graphics all over the place and obviously touch-designed interfaces are just jarring to use and hideous to look at on a desktop. I now give you all permission to get off my lawn. Former Sabres Grant Ledyard and Mike Robitaille join the players lawsuit against the league for concussions. Ledyard talks of daily headaches, mood swings, depression, and drinks every night to get to sleep. Watching the Montreal feed for the game tonight. They had an interesting conversation about the Wideman suspension. Apparently the league spotter that informs teams of players that may have a head hit told the Calgary bench that Wideman needed to be evaluated. Wideman declined to go to the room. This shouldn't even be an option. What good is having concussion spotters if players can just waive them off? Edited February 4, 2016 by TrueBlueGED
darksabre Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Modern website design in general is just awful, especially if you're using a desktop with a large monitor. I know the entire industry is trending mobile, I get that, but these giant graphics all over the place and obviously touch-designed interfaces are just jarring to use and hideous to look at on a desktop. I now give you all permission to get off my lawn. This shouldn't even be an option. What good is having concussion spotters if players can just waive them off? Right. If anything Wideman's punishment should be more severe for refusing to follow protocol.
Eleven Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 I think maybe that's the subtext here. But there's no rule that'd put a player on notice that the league might dole out discipline on that basis. You got it. It's the player safety department equivalent of arresting someone for resisting arrest.
MattPie Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 They could have given him 10 games under Cat 2. They ruled it was intent to injure rather than just being physical with the ref The wording implies that the hurting an official is sufficient for 20 games, intent or not. (bold below) The linesman was in the hospital that night, if I remember right. According to what I heard on GR during a break, they found a deliberate attempt to injure. 20 is the minimum. Here's the rule: 40.2 Automatic Suspension – Category I – Any player who deliberately strikes an official and causes injury or who deliberately applies physical force in any manner against an official with intent to injure, or who in any manner attempts to injure an official shall be automatically suspended for not less than twenty (20) games. (For the purpose of the rule, “intent to injure” shall mean any physical force which a player knew or should have known could reasonably be expected to cause injury.)
WildCard Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 They showed Price practicing on NHL network. Just him skating upright. He looks maimed. Some very serious LBI going on. He looks out for the year
Thorner Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Right? Does the team not get fined for this? The Flames sending Wideman back out there was more dangerous "player selection" than John Scott being deployed by Rolston. Modern website design in general is just awful, especially if you're using a desktop with a large monitor. I know the entire industry is trending mobile, I get that, but these giant graphics all over the place and obviously touch-designed interfaces are just jarring to use and hideous to look at on a desktop. I now give you all permission to get off my lawn. This shouldn't even be an option. What good is having concussion spotters if players can just waive them off? Well this one is obvious. So the league can take a, "Well, WE tried our best!" stance. Allow the players to take the full range of the blame onto themselves. Wash their hands of any further responsibility.
josie Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 I complained about this already, but NHL.com is just impossible to use. Just looked. Oh god. Someone loves their white space/negative space "clean" layout. This means the kids who were in design classes with me now have jobs at major websites. Soon it will all be thin, folksy outdoorsy hand printed style type and arrows everywhere. And triangles. Modern designer peeps love them some damn triangles. We'll call it Saskatchewan cabin chic. Flannel hockey jerseys, craft beard oils for playoffs, man buns.
Stoner Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Right. If anything Wideman's punishment should be more severe for refusing to follow protocol. I'm lost. To punish the player or the team? Why should Wideman be blamed if he had a concussion?
Thorner Posted February 4, 2016 Report Posted February 4, 2016 Just looked. Oh god. Someone loves their white space/negative space "clean" layout. This means the kids who were in design classes with me now have jobs at major websites. Soon it will all be thin, folksy outdoorsy hand printed style type and arrows everywhere. And triangles. Modern designer peeps love them some damn triangles. We'll call it Saskatchewan cabin chic. Flannel hockey jerseys, craft beard oils for playoffs, man buns. People wearing glasses that aren't actually prescription, just clear lenses, for style purposes.
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