Trade ideas and speculation

[thesportsbuff]

I have wavered on the Sharp idea myself. Mostly due to his age. Admittedly I thought he was closer to 30 than 35.  I think he would add a nice veteran presence, winner, etc but overall it just doesn't make a ton of sense outside of the "connect the dots" circumstances (they need to move money, we can take money). So I think I am out on Sharp, provided it would cost more than a 3rd rounder to get him. 

 

I am officially IN on Phil Kessel! I know he's not the model hockey player in some regards but he has always been one of my favorite non Sabres. I love watching him go end-to-end, it reminds me of a 100x more refined Afinogenov. At 27, he's still young, but maybe not young enough to fit the profile of what Murray is looking for. Probably unrealistic, but I would welcome it. Our other 2015 1st + 2016 1st ? Maybe another mid round pick? 

 

Steve Simmons implied Friday the possibility of a disconnect between Stamkos and the coaching staff, even going as far to suggest a trade wouldn't be entirely out of the question. I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up what it would take to fetch Steven Stamkos, but holy cow. That would be nasty. 

[deluca67]

I have wavered on the Sharp idea myself. Mostly due to his age. Admittedly I thought he was closer to 30 than 35.  I think he would add a nice veteran presence, winner, etc but overall it just doesn't make a ton of sense outside of the "connect the dots" circumstances (they need to move money, we can take money). So I think I am out on Sharp, provided it would cost more than a 3rd rounder to get him. 

 

I am officially IN on Phil Kessel! I know he's not the model hockey player in some regards but he has always been one of my favorite non Sabres. I love watching him go end-to-end, it reminds me of a 100x more refined Afinogenov. At 27, he's still young, but maybe not young enough to fit the profile of what Murray is looking for. Probably unrealistic, but I would welcome it. Our other 2015 1st + 2016 1st ? Maybe another mid round pick? 

 

Steve Simmons implied Friday the possibility of a disconnect between Stamkos and the coaching staff, even going as far to suggest a trade wouldn't be entirely out of the question. I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up what it would take to fetch Steven Stamkos, but holy cow. That would be nasty. 

If Stamkos and the coaching staff don't get along, you get rid of the coaching staff. There is no way to sell a Stamkos trade to their fan base.  

[dudacek]

I like the idea of Kessel here more than most of you do. He scores goals and is only 27.

I wouldn't pay what Leaf fans are asking, but I would be kicking those tires.

[deluca67]

Richards, and to a lesser extent Brown (because Richards is done, while Brown is still an NHLer), are really handicapping the Kings' ability to compete in a salary cap world.

 

Essentially, they are investing nearly $12 million into a third line winger and a minor-leaguer, and they are locked into that for the next five years. Even if they buy Richards out, he still counts against the cap.

 

Kings have $9 million available cap space to replace or re-sign UFAs Sekera, Regehr, Williams and Stoll, and UFAs Toffoli and Jones. And they have to save some space for a huge Kopitar contract before he becomes a UFA next year.

 

They are in a desperate situation and I do see the potential there for them to be giving the Sabres something to relieve them of a bad contract.

 

History shows 21 and 31 for 13 is roughly book value.

I think the Kings would have to consider that trade if we took on Richards' contract as well, because it frees up nearly $6 million for them to sign a useful player.

We could afford it easily under the cap right now. The question is, how much will it hurt in year four and five?

 

Would they do it for 21 and 51?

Could a similar deal be done around Brown?

Would the Kings have any interest in taking back our worst contract, Cody Hodgson?

Are there prospects on either side that could sweeten the deal?

 

I think this situation is worth watching.

Do we want Brown at this point of his career? His offensive game has gone awol the past two seasons. 27 points each of the last two seasons. I know what he brings outside of the offensive game, but I need more than 27 points for the $7 mil a year I would be paying.  

[IKnowPhysics]

Pass on Sharp.  Too much downside and the timeline doesn't fit.

 

Hard no on Kessel.

[JJFIVEOH]

The best I would offer for Sharp is a conditional 2016 4th round pick. If he scores 25+ goals for the Sabres than that 4th becomes a 3rd. I make that deal knowing I can flip Sharp the following year for more than I paid for him. He's a $5.9 mil cap hit over the next two seasons. The Sabres have the cap room, they could use it to their advantage. 

 

Absolutely. No more than a 4th. Plus I think he has a NTC. That doesn't mean I think he wouldn't want to come to BFLO........... just saying it complicates matters if he has a select list of where he wants to go.

[Hoss]

Richards, and to a lesser extent Brown (because Richards is done, while Brown is still an NHLer), are really handicapping the Kings' ability to compete in a salary cap world.

 

Essentially, they are investing nearly $12 million into a third line winger and a minor-leaguer, and they are locked into that for the next five years. Even if they buy Richards out, he still counts against the cap.

 

Kings have $9 million available cap space to replace or re-sign UFAs Sekera, Regehr, Williams and Stoll, and UFAs Toffoli and Jones. And they have to save some space for a huge Kopitar contract before he becomes a UFA next year.

 

They are in a desperate situation and I do see the potential there for them to be giving the Sabres something to relieve them of a bad contract.

 

History shows 21 and 31 for 13 is roughly book value.

I think the Kings would have to consider that trade if we took on Richards' contract as well, because it frees up nearly $6 million for them to sign a useful player.

We could afford it easily under the cap right now. The question is, how much will it hurt in year four and five?

 

Would they do it for 21 and 51?

Could a similar deal be done around Brown?

Would the Kings have any interest in taking back our worst contract, Cody Hodgson?

Are there prospects on either side that could sweeten the deal?

 

I think this situation is worth watching.

No way I'm doing 21 and 51 for 13 and Richard. Even worse if it's for Brown. He's getting paid for seven more years.

I like the idea of Kessel here more than most of you do. He scores goals and is only 27.

I wouldn't pay what Leaf fans are asking, but I would be kicking those tires.

I agree.

 

 

On Sharp: I'm not giving a first for him on our end at this point, I've decided. 31 and a prospect (not one of our top guys, but somebody like Carrier or Hurley) might be worth it. But it's not a deal I make until the morning of day two. I exhaust all other options that might involve 31, including trades and who is available.

[LGR4GM]

Kessel just stinks of locker room issues.

 

Sharp is no as well.  No reason to waste assets on a guy 8years older than most of the team.  

[Hoss]

Another thought on Sharp: if Murray really wants a veteran winger to help round out the top six and has won before he'd be better off pursuing Justin Williams in free agency.

 

Williams is two and a half months younger, had a very similar statline (but in 13 more games) and wouldn't cost assets in a trade.

[thesportsbuff]

Kessel just stinks of locker room issues.

 

Sharp is no as well.  No reason to waste assets on a guy 8years older than most of the team.  

 

I don't know how much stock to put into that, really. Some would say where there's smoke, there's fire... and there has definitely been a lot of smoke (even for Toronto). Personally, to me he comes off as a guy who is just a little shy, and maybe not a very vocal leader -- and I think that's why the Toronto media rip him so much. The way everyone was joking around so openly about it at the All Star Game kind of makes me think that the players know it's all a load of crap, and not as big of a deal as some make it out to be. But then again, I don't know him personally, so to speculate on his personality is silly.

Edited June 7, 2015 by thesportsbuff

[thewookie1]

Richards, and to a lesser extent Brown (because Richards is done, while Brown is still an NHLer), are really handicapping the Kings' ability to compete in a salary cap world.

 

Essentially, they are investing nearly $12 million into a third line winger and a minor-leaguer, and they are locked into that for the next five years. Even if they buy Richards out, he still counts against the cap.

 

Kings have $9 million available cap space to replace or re-sign UFAs Sekera, Regehr, Williams and Stoll, and UFAs Toffoli and Jones. And they have to save some space for a huge Kopitar contract before he becomes a UFA next year.

 

They are in a desperate situation and I do see the potential there for them to be giving the Sabres something to relieve them of a bad contract.

 

History shows 21 and 31 for 13 is roughly book value.

I think the Kings would have to consider that trade if we took on Richards' contract as well, because it frees up nearly $6 million for them to sign a useful player.

We could afford it easily under the cap right now. The question is, how much will it hurt in year four and five?

 

Would they do it for 21 and 51?

Could a similar deal be done around Brown?

Would the Kings have any interest in taking back our worst contract, Cody Hodgson?

Are there prospects on either side that could sweeten the deal?

 

I think this situation is worth watching.

 

21 + 31 likely gets you close to 13 even without Richards  (With another team) (Boston/Calgary)

 

Richards cap dump really is a hard thing to figure out a value for.

 

If they're desperate we could potentially fleece them with 21 for 13, Richards and a 3rd in 2017 or 2018 

 

It may be possible to maneuver 21 + 51 for 13 and 43 with us taking Richards off their hands. (That 43rd pick would then of been both LA and BUF's 2 separate times.)

Edited June 7, 2015 by thewookie1

[LGR4GM]

I don't know how much stock to put into that, really. Some would say where there's smoke, there's fire... and there has definitely been a lot of smoke (even for Toronto). Personally, to me he comes off as a guy who is just a little shy, and maybe not a very vocal leader -- and I think that's why the Toronto media rip him so much. The way everyone was joking around so openly about it at the All Star Game kind of makes me think that the players know it's all a load of crap, and not as big of a deal as some make it out to be. But then again, I don't know him personally, so to speculate on his personality is silly.

I know how much I believe it.  Kessel's team has imploded 2 years in a row. He isn't a leader.  It's a waste of money for a 27yr old. 

 

8mil cap hit for a winger who isn't a beast 2way forward  :sick:

[Brawndo]

I know how much I believe it. Kessel's team has imploded 2 years in a row. He isn't a leader. It's a waste of money for a 27yr old.

 

8mil cap hit for a winger who isn't a beast 2way forward :sick:

He has seven years left on his deal at an AAV of 8 Million as well. No thanks

[thesportsbuff]

I know how much I believe it.  Kessel's team has imploded 2 years in a row. He isn't a leader.  It's a waste of money for a 27yr old. 

 

8mil cap hit for a winger who isn't a beast 2way forward  :sick:

 

You can believe whatever you're so inclined to. He may not be a strong leader --not everyone has to be-- but Toronto's problems run much deeper than their star winger not giving a pep talk, or whatever leaders of bad hockey teams are expected to do. 

 

Defensive deficiencies or not, a young star in the beginning of his prime who has outscored all but three players in the league over the past five seasons isn't a "waste of money." 

[LGR4GM]

You can believe whatever you're so inclined to. He may not be a strong leader --not everyone has to be-- but Toronto's problems run much deeper than their star winger not giving a pep talk, or whatever leaders of bad hockey teams are expected to do. 

 

Defensive deficiencies or not, a young star in the beginning of his prime who has outscored all but three players in the league over the past five seasons isn't a "waste of money." 

If we were about to go on a cup run maybe not.  Adding Phil Kessel to this team right now is a mistake.  

[nfreeman]

I would be surprised if Chicago doesn't get either a first or a second and a solid second piece for Sharp from a contender. He's an immediate top-six winger they get two guaranteed years of control on at a bargain ($5.9M cap hit both years).

 

Washington, Columbus and Montreal are three teams that come to mind right away. Maybe Winnipeg who has two firsts. Columbus obviously isn't giving 8, but they've got two early seconds and a late second to think about.

 

Chicago will get good value for Sharp. It won't just be a dump.

 

OK -- we've got bragging rights at stake on this one.  My prediction is that whatever Chicago gets for him will not be as good as #31.

 

We can not ignore that Sharp's production dropped 45% in 2014 from 2013. Even for a contender I just don't see the value when taking into consideration the cost. We are talking a #1 pick and taking on $10.5 mil over two seasons. 

$10.8M over two seasons is nothing for a top six winger. That's a bargain.

And I don't think all 29 other teams are going to view that drop as a sure sign that he's done. I think most, including myself, anticipate that he can and will bounce back.

 

You 2 hosers seem to be having a hard time multiplying $5.9MM x 2 years.

 

He has seven years left on his deal at an AAV of 8 Million as well. No thanks

 

Boom.  This torpedoes the Kessel idea for me too.  I could see rolling the dice if it were, say, a 3-year commitment.  But 7?  NFW.

 

As for the LA scenario -- it's interesting.  Frankly, I think taking Richards or Brown off their hands would, by itself, be worth the jump from #21 to #13.  I would not include a 2nd rounder in the package.  Perhaps a #3 (although I don't think we have one this year) or a #4.

[Hoss]

OK -- we've got bragging rights at stake on this one.  My prediction is that whatever Chicago gets for him will not be as good as #31.

 

 

You 2 hosers seem to be having a hard time multiplying $5.9MM x 2 years..

Part 1 - My prediction is that it will be. Quite easily.

 

Part 2 - My math was bad. I think DeLuca meant actual dollars which would be $10.5M. I saw that and originally thought he had bad math so put $10.8M not realizing what DeLuca was saying and missing a million.

[deluca67]

Part 1 - My prediction is that it will be. Quite easily.

 

Part 2 - My math was bad. I think DeLuca meant actual dollars which would be $10.5M. I saw that and originally thought he had bad math so put $10.8M not realizing what DeLuca was saying and missing a million.

Thanks! I was thinking actual dollars since the Cap wont be an issue for the Sabres for a while. 

If we were about to go on a cup run maybe not.  Adding Phil Kessel to this team right now is a mistake.  

I'm a huge Kessel fan. I've said previously it is the wrong time to add Kessel. He needs to go to contender. I can see Kessel putting a team like Montreal or Anaheim over the top. He'd be wasted here in Buffalo at this point. 

[Randall Flagg]

Pitt could really use an elite winger for Crosby too. Not sure anything they have would make sense for Toronto though.

[thesportsbuff]

If we were about to go on a cup run maybe not.  Adding Phil Kessel to this team right now is a mistake.  

 

Boom.  This torpedoes the Kessel idea for me too.  I could see rolling the dice if it were, say, a 3-year commitment.  But 7?  NFW.

 

I'm a huge Kessel fan. I've said previously it is the wrong time to add Kessel. He needs to go to contender. I can see Kessel putting a team like Montreal or Anaheim over the top. He'd be wasted here in Buffalo at this point. 

 

Those are all valid and understandable points, and I agree it is probably an unlikely scenario. But I personally don't share those same concerns. He won't come here and win a cup immediately, so yes a few years of his prime would be wasted and it may not be the best career choice for Phil. But it could make some sense for the Sabres. While I will acknowledge that he is probably not a great vocal leader, he would still be one of few Sabres with nearly a decade's experience in the league, including a few playoff runs, by the time the team is ready to compete. At around 30, 31 years old, he would still have a couple good years left as a top 6 caliber forward. And learning how to win becomes a little easier when you have a proven NHL sniper on your team.

 

His contract doesn't really scare me either, as it kind of goes hand in hand with my last point. He will only be 34 at the end of the deal-- it isn't like we would be paying a washed up has-been for several years while he fights off retirement. I would expect him to be a very good player through out the duration of the deal.

 

Just some other thoughts:

• Phil Kessel is tied for 4th in goals scored over the past five seasons. That stat is slightly skewed by the fact that he's played as many as 20 more games than some of the players around him on the list, but I wouldn't necessarily call that a bad thing either -- he hasn't missed a single game in those five years. 
• While putting up pretty impressive offensive numbers in Toronto, he has never had a legitimate #1 center to play with there. Bozak is an okay player and Kadri is a pretty good player, but no one comes close to what we expect Eichel to be. Or even Reinhart. I love JVR as a player as well, but I think it's a no brainer that he would be surrounded with a lot more talent here in Buffalo.
• Piggybacking off that thought: We've all heard the stories about his run ins with media, and how he maybe doesn't like to be the center of attention. He certainly wouldn't have to be here. Not with Eichel, Kane, etc. 
• More fuel to the Toronto rivalry fire. It is hardly even a significant rivalry anymore because of how bad the teams both have been, and it may not get any better soon since the Leafs are rebuilding. The Babcock ordeal helps us hate them a little more. Can you imagine how much more they would hate us if we snagged Kessel? Especially when he's scoring/winning games at the ACC with a star studded Sabres team? That would be fun. I also think it would serve as some motivation for Kessel who was called out, belittled, and probably somewhat embarrassed at times by the TO media. 

[LGR4GM]

You give yet another reason why the deal wouldn't happen. If Kessel is as sunshine and rainbows as you say why would the leafs trade him to an immediate division rival?  Also what would we have to spend to get this paragon of goal scoring?

•  

   

  • More fuel to the Toronto rivalry fire. It is hardly even a significant rivalry anymore because of how bad the teams both have been, and it may not get any better soon since the Leafs are rebuilding. The Babcock ordeal helps us hate them a little more. Can you imagine how much more they would hate us if we snagged Kessel? Especially when he's scoring/winning games at the ACC with a star studded Sabres team? That would be fun. I also think it would serve as some motivation for Kessel who was called out, belittled, and probably somewhat embarrassed at times by the TO media. 

Also you aren't going to motivate Kessel to be anything other than what he is now.  Remember Thomas Vanek?  We all thought for years Vanek was going to break through this magical ceiling and actually be an all around impact player but nope. Kessel is a goal scorer for sure but that's it.  That's all he brings to the table. 

 

I don't agree that Phil Kessel makes any sense for the Buffalo Sabres. I am fairly certain we just spent 3 years getting rid of a squishy core of players.  Not to mention you bring in Kessel and he is the highest paid player on the team.  That will matter in that locker room especially if Kessel clashes with his teammates.   

Edited June 8, 2015 by LGR4GM

[inkman]

squishy core of players.

Yep and they don't come any more squishy that ol jelly donut Kessel. We are building a heavy, tough, fast team. We don't need Phil 'doughboy' Kessel.

[TrueBlueGED]

I just don't want to be paying a winger $8 million to be on the wrong side of 30 when this team really hits its stride. That said, I do think Kessel gets unfairly dumped on and I'd be happy to employ one of the best offensive players in the league if the situation was different.

[Derrico]

I agree wtih the above.  People are optimistic, but this team still finished dead last in the league two years running.  We're nowhere close to needing "finishing pieces" like Sharp.  I like cheaper older players who can offer mentoring to the younger guys (like Gionta), but otherwise if we make a blockbuster trade it has to be for someone who can grow with the group (e.g., Bogosian and Kane).

What's most interesting to me is with all the young center depth - Eichel, Reinhart, Girgs, Grigo, Compher - either someone has to be moved to wing or someone is trade bait.  Most assume Grigorenko is trade bait, but I'm not so sure.  Murray likes big forwards and Grigo has size, speed, and faceoff ability.  I wonder if any of these guys not named Eichel could slot in on the wing.

Grigo has speed??

[Derrico]

Good lord no to Phat Phil.