Trade ideas and speculation

[deluca67]

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/sports/leafs/2015/06/06/maple-leafs-may-look-to-trade-top-selection.html?referrer=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2F1xC0pQPX3A

 

It's probably going to take 21, 31 and NYI pick plus a prospect, but if we could add Eichel and Marner/Provonov, I would pull the trigger.

 

Marner did say he can play any forward position

The Sabres are not getting into the top five without a top 10 pick. Your package might get the Sabres into the top ten, they willhave to then take that top 10 pick and build an offer around it for a top 5 pick. 21 to #4 or #3 is too big of a jump unless you plan on adding Girgensons and/or Ristolainen to the offer.  

[dudacek]

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/06/06/teams-will-be-lining-up-if-stamkos-wants-to-leave-tampa

 

Sharp to Buffalo for 21 or 31?

 

I would be very upset if we traded either of those picks for Sharp. 

It goes against everything we heard from Murray and Bylsma at the time of the Bylsma hiring.

A 34-year-old winger does nothing to bring this team closer to the Stanley Cup.

[deluca67]

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/06/06/teams-will-be-lining-up-if-stamkos-wants-to-leave-tampa

 

Sharp to Buffalo for 21 or 31?

#21 or #31 for a 33 year old? Sharp is a finishing piece of a Stanley Cup puzzle, not a building block. If the Hawks are looking to dump salary, I would want Raanta or Van Riemsdyk to be included especially if I am giving up quality assets like the #21 or #31 picks.  

[Hoss]

I'm pretty torn on Sharp. He'll be 34 at mid-season this year and won't be around when the team is truly becoming successful, but I can't imagine that his experience wouldn't be extremely valuable to Eichel, Reinhart and the other youngsters. Having been with Toews and Kane in Chicago their entire careers he would have plenty to share on and off the ice.

I think we could get something more valuable than that with 21 if Murray looks, but I would do 31 for him in a heartbeat. I think Chicago will get a better offer than that, though.

[Brawndo]

The Sabres are not getting into the top five without a top 10 pick. Your package might get the Sabres into the top ten, they willhave to then take that top 10 pick and build an offer around it for a top 5 pick. 21 to #4 or #3 is too big of a jump unless you plan on adding Girgensons and/or Ristolainen to the offer.

You are right, I based it on this portion of the article

 

The message from the Leaf camp: They’re open for business. The idea could well be to trade the fourth overall pick for another first-round pick as well as a second-round pick, giving the Leafs three picks in the first two rounds instead of two. The Leafs don’t have their own second-round pick, but they do have Nashville’s first-round pick from the Cody Franson trade.

 

The Leafs probably would not take that much of a drop for four, but if that package lands you in the top ten and Provonov is available I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

If the Leafs asked for 21, NYI Pick and next year's first what would you say? I wouldn't do it myself.

[Robviously]

#21 or #31 for a 33 year old? Sharp is a finishing piece of a Stanley Cup puzzle, not a building block. If the Hawks are looking to dump salary, I would want Raanta or Van Riemsdyk to be included especially if I am giving up quality assets like the #21 or #31 picks.  

This.  If we're trading #21 or #31 it should be for someone who will be here and still in his prime in 3 years when we're a contender.  Anyone on the wrong side of 30 is probably a bad idea.

[deluca67]

This.  If we're trading #21 or #31 it should be for someone who will be here and still in his prime in 3 years when we're a contender.  Anyone on the wrong side of 30 is probably a bad idea.

The best I would offer for Sharp is a conditional 2016 4th round pick. If he scores 25+ goals for the Sabres than that 4th becomes a 3rd. I make that deal knowing I can flip Sharp the following year for more than I paid for him. He's a $5.9 mil cap hit over the next two seasons. The Sabres have the cap room, they could use it to their advantage. 

[Iron Crotch]

I agree wtih the above.  People are optimistic, but this team still finished dead last in the league two years running.  We're nowhere close to needing "finishing pieces" like Sharp.  I like cheaper older players who can offer mentoring to the younger guys (like Gionta), but otherwise if we make a blockbuster trade it has to be for someone who can grow with the group (e.g., Bogosian and Kane).

What's most interesting to me is with all the young center depth - Eichel, Reinhart, Girgs, Grigo, Compher - either someone has to be moved to wing or someone is trade bait.  Most assume Grigorenko is trade bait, but I'm not so sure.  Murray likes big forwards and Grigo has size, speed, and faceoff ability.  I wonder if any of these guys not named Eichel could slot in on the wing.

 

[#freejame]

You are right, I based it on this portion of the article

 

The message from the Leaf camp: They’re open for business. The idea could well be to trade the fourth overall pick for another first-round pick as well as a second-round pick, giving the Leafs three picks in the first two rounds instead of two. The Leafs don’t have their own second-round pick, but they do have Nashville’s first-round pick from the Cody Franson trade.

 

The Leafs probably would not take that much of a drop for four, but if that package lands you in the top ten and Provonov is available I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

If the Leafs asked for 21, NYI Pick and next year's first what would you say? I wouldn't do it myself.

Isn't 21 the NYI pick? If you mean 31, 21 and next year's first, I absolutely do it. Marner is a terrific talent and will be better than Tofolli, so we wouldn't need to make that offer sheet (not that we would be able to then).

 

 

EDIT: Didn't mean to link that video, but it will do. Just know there are more impressive ones out there.

Edited June 7, 2015 by IrwinNelson

[thewookie1]

If you wanted to get up into the Top 10 again from 21 it would require at least two trades. The one I always use as a starter is 21 for 13 + Mike Richards(25%)  Mainly because it doesn't require any additional loss of assets. Richards can play in Rochester and protect the young prospects there. After that, I'm unsure, but 13 is certainly easier to work from.

[deluca67]

If you wanted to get up into the Top 10 again from 21 it would require at least two trades. The one I always use as a starter is 21 for 13 + Mike Richards(25%)  Mainly because it doesn't require any additional loss of assets. Richards can play in Rochester and protect the young prospects there. After that, I'm unsure, but 13 is certainly easier to work from.

Why give up #13 when the Kings can just buy Richards out? 

[LabattBlue]

I would be very upset if we traded either of those picks for Sharp. 

It goes against everything we heard from Murray and Bylsma at the time of the Bylsma hiring.

A 34-year-old winger does nothing to bring this team closer to the Stanley Cup.

Agreed 100%

... I can't imagine that his experience wouldn't be extremely valuable to Eichel, Reinhart and the other youngsters. Having been with Toews and Kane in Chicago their entire careers he would have plenty to share on and off the ice.

 

 

This "mentoring" kind of statement is used way too enough here(not just you Hoss).  For all we know, a large number of the guys being touted as good for the Sabres because they could be mentors to the youthful core, could be real a$$holes both on and off the ice.

Edited June 7, 2015 by LabattBlue

[Hoss]

Labatt, I've spoken out against the mentoring stuff before. But Sharp isn't just that. It would be valuable on top of the obvious skill he brings to the table. You bring him in and your top nine by midseason should be, without any other additions:

 

Kane-Eichel-Sharp

Moulson-Reinhart-Ennis

Foligno-Girgensons-Gionta

 

Grigorenko, Hodgson and Larsson weren't even named there.

 

I do think we need to always keep the long-term success in mind, but I think that giving these kids a winning experience now is also very important.

[LGR4GM]

You are right, I based it on this portion of the article

 

The message from the Leaf camp: They’re open for business. The idea could well be to trade the fourth overall pick for another first-round pick as well as a second-round pick, giving the Leafs three picks in the first two rounds instead of two. The Leafs don’t have their own second-round pick, but they do have Nashville’s first-round pick from the Cody Franson trade.

 

The Leafs probably would not take that much of a drop for four, but if that package lands you in the top ten and Provonov is available I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

If the Leafs asked for 21, NYI Pick and next year's first what would you say? I wouldn't do it myself.

No I wouldn't.  We have no way of gauging the team going into the 2015 season. They could easily miss the playoffs and with the new lottery end up pick 1-3.  It would be foolish for a rebuilding team such as Buffalo to trade their 2016 first round at the 2015 draft.  

[#freejame]

No I wouldn't.  We have no way of gauging the team going into the 2015 season. They could easily miss the playoffs and with the new lottery end up pick 1-3.  It would be foolish for a rebuilding team such as Buffalo to trade their 2016 first round at the 2015 draft.  

I would argue that Marner will be better than everyone in that draft, less Matthews. I'd rather get Marner than have a chance at Matthews.

[nfreeman]

I'm not opposed to bringing in Sharp, but not for #21 or #31. I also think that if Chicago ends up trading Sharp, they won't get anything equivalent to #31 for him, given age, contract and supply/demand.

[LGR4GM]

I would argue that Marner will be better than everyone in that draft, less Matthews. I'd rather get Marner than have a chance at Matthews.

It is far too early to make that assumption.  

 

For the record, I dont think the proposed trade gets you to #4.

[Hoss]

I'm not opposed to bringing in Sharp, but not for #21 or #31. I also think that if Chicago ends up trading Sharp, they won't get anything equivalent to #31 for him, given age, contract and supply/demand.

I would be surprised if Chicago doesn't get either a first or a second and a solid second piece for Sharp from a contender. He's an immediate top-six winger they get two guaranteed years of control on at a bargain ($5.9M cap hit both years).

 

Washington, Columbus and Montreal are three teams that come to mind right away. Maybe Winnipeg who has two firsts. Columbus obviously isn't giving 8, but they've got two early seconds and a late second to think about.

 

Chicago will get good value for Sharp. It won't just be a dump.

[thewookie1]

Why give up #13 when the Kings can just buy Richards out? 

 

The cost is real bad over the long term

[Hoss]

 

The cost is real bad over the long term

Maybe, but if they're going to move down for a salary dump they're not going to retain salary.

[thewookie1]

Then we just pick it up fully, maybe get a 3rd in 2017 with it too or something weird like that.

[deluca67]

I would be surprised if Chicago doesn't get either a first or a second and a solid second piece for Sharp from a contender. He's an immediate top-six winger they get two guaranteed years of control on at a bargain ($5.9M cap hit both years).

 

Washington, Columbus and Montreal are three teams that come to mind right away. Maybe Winnipeg who has two firsts. Columbus obviously isn't giving 8, but they've got two early seconds and a late second to think about.

 

Chicago will get good value for Sharp. It won't just be a dump.

We can not ignore that Sharp's production dropped 45% in 2014 from 2013. Even for a contender I just don't see the value when taking into consideration the cost. We are talking a #1 pick and taking on $10.5 mil over two seasons. 

Edited June 7, 2015 by DeLuca1967

[Hoss]

We can not ignore that Sharp's production dropped 45% in 2014 from 2013. Even for a contender I just don't see the value when taking into consideration the cost. We are talking a #1 pick and $10.5 mil over two seasons.

$10.8M over two seasons is nothing for a top six winger. That's a bargain.

And I don't think all 29 other teams are going to view that drop as a sure sign that he's done. I think most, including myself, anticipate that he can and will bounce back.

[deluca67]

$10.8M over two seasons is nothing for a top six winger. That's a bargain.

And I don't think all 29 other teams are going to view that drop as a sure sign that he's done. I think most, including myself, anticipate that he can and will bounce back.

At age 34? That's a huge gamble, a little too rich for my blood. 

[dudacek]

Richards, and to a lesser extent Brown (because Richards is done, while Brown is still an NHLer), are really handicapping the Kings' ability to compete in a salary cap world.

 

Essentially, they are investing nearly $12 million into a third line winger and a minor-leaguer, and they are locked into that for the next five years. Even if they buy Richards out, he still counts against the cap.

 

Kings have $9 million available cap space to replace or re-sign UFAs Sekera, Regehr, Williams and Stoll, and UFAs Toffoli and Jones. And they have to save some space for a huge Kopitar contract before he becomes a UFA next year.

 

They are in a desperate situation and I do see the potential there for them to be giving the Sabres something to relieve them of a bad contract.

 

History shows 21 and 31 for 13 is roughly book value.

I think the Kings would have to consider that trade if we took on Richards' contract as well, because it frees up nearly $6 million for them to sign a useful player.

We could afford it easily under the cap right now. The question is, how much will it hurt in year four and five?

 

Would they do it for 21 and 51?

Could a similar deal be done around Brown?

Would the Kings have any interest in taking back our worst contract, Cody Hodgson?

Are there prospects on either side that could sweeten the deal?

 

I think this situation is worth watching.

Edited June 7, 2015 by dudacek