Trade ideas and speculation

[Rasmus_]

Someone tweeted out #8, one of Pysyk or McCabe and Girgensons for Fowler and likely #24.  I find this to be a laugh.  Fowler can go take a hike for that lunacy.  I'm sorry, this player is not worth a top ten draft pick.  

Bieksa and Stoner aren't worth the paper that their contracts are written on.  God, some people want a 24 LHD, who isn't a top pairing defensemen to add god awful contracts.  No ty.

[TrueBlueGED]

Someone tweeted out #8, one of Pysyk or McCabe and Girgensons for Fowler and likely #24.  I find this to be a laugh.  Fowler can go take a hike for that lunacy.  I'm sorry, this player is not worth a top ten draft pick.  

 

There's no way that's legitimate. Even folks in the "Murray overpays" crowd don't think he'd do that.

[beerme1]

Just catching up and have done the last two pages yet.

 

 

I wouldn't do that, no. 

 

Me either

 

 

I think I would.

 

No. Don't do it. Unless you know we are getting Stamkos :ph34r:

 

 

Why Kane? 

 

They don't want to move Lindholm and would want to hurt us if we do. Hell I might change what I said to 8, McCabe, Kane and 1st next year. I think we'd feel that lol.

[Rasmus_]

Fowler can stay in Anaheim or be traded elsewhere.  God, I cannot believe he's getting this type of press.  I'd rather give up value for Dumba, who I feel is both better and has tons of upside. 

[TrueBlueGED]

Fowler can stay in Anaheim or be traded elsewhere.  God, I cannot believe he's getting this type of press.  I'd rather give up value for Dumba, who I feel is both better and has tons of upside. 

 

I can't say I think Dumba is better. More upside? Sure, I buy that. But right now I definitely think Fowler is the superior player. Dumba is also a rightie :(

[Randall Flagg]

Fowler can stay in Anaheim or be traded elsewhere.  God, I cannot believe he's getting this type of press.  I'd rather give up value for Dumba, who I feel is both better and has tons of upside. 

I have to totally disagree with all of your Cam Fowler assessment. The guy has played the most minutes on a team that got to game 7 of the WCFs and allowed the fewest goals this year. His possession stats and those garbage player comparison charts don't tell half of the story. He gets something like 44% offensive zone starts, and lugs around Bieksa and the Ducks' shutdown forwards in a shutdown role. He is one of the best defensemen in the league at moving the puck out of the defensive zone, and is probably a top 5 skater in the world, in terms of defensemen. His positioning and stickwork are good-to-great, he just doesn't wow with physical presence or highlight reel offense. He is by far the best realistic option, IMO, for fixing the Sabres' biggest problem (getting the nod over Shattenkirk because of his handedness.) He's 24. Dumba doesn't sniff his jock, and I'd bet that 2 of the 3 defensemen people want to pick don't ever become as good as Fowler already is. 

[jsb]

Someone asked about who Montour was, here's some info I found on the guy. Played with San Diego in the AHL last season had 13G and 54As in 82 games.

 

Fastest Skater: Brandon Montour, D, San Diego Gulls (AHL)

‏Montour has wheels. With or without the puck, this kid can move. There will be times during games where he will gather the puck on his stick and take off on an end to end rush that can make most defending players look like they are in slow motion. He is an aggressive and enterprising offensive defenseman who often plays with an inherent risk that stems from his tremendous quickness and top-end speed. He can be a nightmare for slower defensemen and wingers to keep hold of in the offensive zone and in transition.

Future

Montour is skating for new Anaheim AHL affiliate San Diego in 2015-16. In his first season of pro hockey, he is the leading scorer amongst Gulls' defensemen. Montour has been dominant at times but his positional play is still evolving. His risk taking can sometimes get him in bad spots — whether it's taking undisciplined penalties or getting caught out of position. With his combination of offensive instincts and drive to score, Montour projects as a player capable of causing havoc from the back end of the attack and running an NHL power play effectively. With added bulk and strength and refined positional play he has a high upside.

 

[TrueBlueGED]

You got me there sorry True.  Blah, well I just cannot believe the asking price on Fowler.  He's the fourth best defensemen on his team.  I would take Lindholm, Vatanen, and Theodore over him.  I am only partially favoring Despres over him.  

 

Lindolm absolutely. Vatanen is pretty close, I think--I'd like to see what Fowler could produce in Vatanen's sheltered role. As is, I really don't think you can definitively say Vatanen is better. Theodore? C'mon man, he has 19 NHL games played! I dunno what made you so angry, but I suggest saving it until a deal you hate has actually been consummated :)

 

 

I have to totally disagree with all of your Cam Fowler assessment. The guy has played the most minutes on a team that got to game 7 of the WCFs and allowed the fewest goals this year. His possession stats and those garbage player comparison charts don't tell half of the story. He gets something like 44% offensive zone starts, and lugs around Bieksa and the Ducks' shutdown forwards in a shutdown role. He is one of the best defensemen in the league at moving the puck out of the defensive zone, and is probably a top 5 skater in the world, in terms of defensemen. His positioning and stickwork are good-to-great, he just doesn't wow with physical presence or highlight reel offense. He is by far the best realistic option, IMO, for fixing the Sabres' biggest problem (getting the nod over Shattenkirk because of his handedness.) He's 24. Dumba doesn't sniff his jock, and I'd bet that 2 of the 3 defensemen people want to pick don't ever become as good as Fowler already is. 

 

I mostly agree with this. With Goligoski and Yandle off the market, and Campbell likely going to a contender, we simply don't have many realistic options left. That said, I still really really really do not want to trade #8. There has to be another way to get it done.

[Randall Flagg]

Lindolm absolutely. Vatanen is pretty close, I think--I'd like to see what Fowler could produce in Vatanen's sheltered role. As is, I really don't think you can definitively say Vatanen is better. Theodore? C'mon man, he has 19 NHL games played! I dunno what made you so angry, but I suggest saving it until a deal you hate has actually been consummated :)

 

 

 

I mostly agree with this. With Goligoski and Yandle off the market, and Campbell likely going to a contender, we simply don't have many realistic options left. That said, I still really really really do not want to trade #8. There has to be another way to get it done.

I don't want to trade 8, for sure, and I think I might believe that it won't be necessary. I said earlier, if we get Fowler and draft Juo/Serg, I no longer fret about long term d-corps. 

Also, I see him posting on hf too, so that's probably why he's angry :lol: everyone there is on drugs

 

Also, I think draft picks in general get overvalued. Not saying this in response to anything or anyone in particular.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't want to trade 8, for sure, and I think I might believe that it won't be necessary. I said earlier, if we get Fowler and draft Juo/Serg, I no longer fret about long term d-corps. 

Also, I see him posting on hf too, so that's probably why he's angry :lol: everyone there is on drugs

 

Also, I think draft picks in general get overvalued. Not saying this in response to anything or anyone in particular.

 

Draft picks definitely get overrated there, that's for sure :lol:

 

That said, I love the slate of talent available at #8 this year, and it's likely to be our last good shot at a high end player for the foreseeable future, so it carries possibly more value than usual to me.

[beerme1]

Lindolm absolutely. Vatanen is pretty close, I think--I'd like to see what Fowler could produce in Vatanen's sheltered role. As is, I really don't think you can definitively say Vatanen is better. Theodore? C'mon man, he has 19 NHL games played! I dunno what made you so angry, but I suggest saving it until a deal you hate has actually been consummated :)

 

 

 

I mostly agree with this. With Goligoski and Yandle off the market, and Campbell likely going to a contender, we simply don't have many realistic options left. That said, I still really really really do not want to trade #8. There has to be another way to get it done.

 

 

This is a sound position.

[Hoss]

Flagg hit the nail on the head. Fowler got the most minutes on the team that had both the best power play percentage AND best penalty kill in the entire league. They were the first team in the league to do so in over 30 years. Fowler was given a TON of credit for this.

[3putt]

An alternative opinion from their beat writer http://thehockeywriters.com/ducks-cant-hesitate-to-trade-cam-fowler/. Albeit the Hockey writers.

[Thorner]

I don't want to trade 8, for sure, and I think I might believe that it won't be necessary. I said earlier, if we get Fowler and draft Juo/Serg, I no longer fret about long term d-corps. Also, I see him posting on hf too, so that's probably why he's angry :lol: everyone there is on drugs

 

Also, I think draft picks in general get overvalued. Not saying this in response to anything or anyone in particular.

If we can go from what we have now on LHD, to, in one day, a potential future left side of Fowler, Juolevi/Sergachev, and McCabe, I'd do flips.

[TrueBlueGED]

An alternative opinion from their beat writer http://thehockeywriters.com/ducks-cant-hesitate-to-trade-cam-fowler/. Albeit the Hockey writers.

 

Yea, he's definitely not a perfect player. It's part of the reason parting with #8 would sting so much

[Randall Flagg]

An alternative opinion from their beat writer http://thehockeywriters.com/ducks-cant-hesitate-to-trade-cam-fowler/. Albeit the Hockey writers.

It's hard to believe that when Bieksa left Fowler, he didn't play much easier minutes. And Stoner? Come on. Also, if he was elite both with the puck and without it, he would not be available to us without us giving up the kids. We don't need him here to be Roman Josi. We need stability on the left side, and puck movement. He gives us these and helps Risto by easing his minutes, which may be the most important part of his acquisition, helping Risto hit his ceiling.

 

(Criticism not directed at you, 3putt, just some of what the article says)

Edited June 24, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[TrueBlueGED]

It's hard to believe that when Bieksa left Fowler, he didn't play much easier minutes. And Stoner? Come on. Also, if he was elite both with the puck and without it, he would not be available to us without us giving up the kids. We don't need him here to be Roman Josi. We need stability on the left side, and puck movement. He gives us these and helps Risto by easing his minutes, which may be the most important part of his acquisition, helping Risto hit his ceiling.

 

(Criticism not directed at you, 3putt, just some of what the article says)

 

Right. I really like the fit here. His strengths are what we lack, and playing with Risto can help with his weaknesses.

 

But if they're demanding #8, I'm still gunshy and looking at other options. 

[3putt]

None taken. I think the IQ quote is spot on. I don't give up 8th oa for this guy. Jmho. I would rather take Sergachev and wait a year. He is in the same class as Provorov based on my eye test. Provorov might be a bit faster and meaner, but not much.

[darksabre]

Right. I really like the fit here. His strengths are what we lack, and playing with Risto can help with his weaknesses.

 

But if they're demanding #8, I'm still gunshy and looking at other options.

I take Fowler and give Stamkos 12per and go win a Cup in two years.

[TrueBlueGED]

I take Fowler and give Stamkos 12per and go win a Cup in two years.

 

And if you don't, you throw in the towel and officially join the "Because Buffalo" ranks :lol:

[darksabre]

And if you don't, you throw in the towel and officially join the "Because Buffalo" ranks :lol:

I'm already there bro, I'm already there.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm already there bro, I'm already there.

 

Then your previous post confuses me. It should say something more like "I take Fowler, watch him refuse to re-sign in two years, swing and miss on Stamkos only to overpay Lucic on a 7 year deal to compensate."

[darksabre]

Then your previous post confuses me. It should say something more like "I take Fowler, watch him refuse to re-sign in two years, swing and miss on Stamkos only to overpay Lucic on a 7 year deal to compensate."

Oh. Oh god.

[Brawndo]

Yea, he's definitely not a perfect player. It's part of the reason parting with #8 would sting so much

 

I will be kicked off the bunker list for this.  

 

http://public.tableau.com/shared/ZN64CKYNW?:display_count=yes

Edited June 24, 2016 by BRAWNDO

[TrueBlueGED]

I will be kicked off the bunker list for this.  

 

http://public.tableau.com/shared/ZN64CKYNW?:display_count=yes

 

My guess is if you flipped their usage, Fowler would look better than Bogo does and Bogo would look worse than Fowler does. Aside from that, the things Fowler is good at I think are more valuable than the things Bogosian is good at.