Trade ideas and speculation

[WildCard]

Perhaps a gentlemen's wager, with proceeds to charity, as to which player puts up more points *for the Sabres* next year?

AVATAR BET

And that's the thing that gets missed. This isn't an exact science. There are always varying opinions within an organization regarding players and their potential. Mark Pysyk is a perfect example. There are people in the organization that believe he is a top pair/three guy and DB seems unsure if he is even a top 6 guy. I think people are going to be surprised what Foligno either gets in a contract or fetches in trade.

They are who we think they are. Exact science or no, it's abundantly clear, IMO at least, that Foligno is merely just a 3rd/4th liner who will but up 25 points at best. There is nothing in his play that indicates otherwise. 

[tom webster]

AVATAR BET

They are who we think they are. Exact science or no, it's abundantly clear, IMO at least, that Foligno is merely just a 3rd/4th liner who will but up 25 points at best. There is nothing in his play that indicates otherwise. 

At least you added the IMO. While I know goals aren't everything, and neither are points, right now there are roughly 192 forwards who have more goals then him.so I guess that puts him right in the top of third line players.

Additionally, he is following Jamie McGinn's path in production so if he continues he will score 15-20 next year. Again, no guarantees but as a 24 years ols power forward, he wouldn't be the first to emerge in year number 5.

[WildCard]

At least you added the IMO. While I know goals aren't everything, and neither are points, right now there are roughly 192 forwards who have more goals then him.so I guess that puts him right in the top of third line players.

Additionally, he is following Jamie McGinn's path in production so if he continues he will score 15-20 next year. Again, no guarantees but as a 24 years ols power forward, he wouldn't be the first to emerge in year number 5.

I see much more from McGinn than I do from Foligno. That's not to say that McGinn isn't likely a 3rd liner either. 

 

Well, that's the problem with Foligno, isn't it? We all want him to be a power forward, and it's clear he has the size for it, but it just hasn't materialized, and I'm not sure if it ever will. To me, this feels just like hoping Stafford./Myers will pull it all together and become what we all hoped for. IMO, Marcus just won't

 

For shits and giggles, Avatar bet that Foligno doesn't hit 20 goals next year? I don't even think he hits 15

[Patty16]

I see much more from McGinn than I do from Foligno. That's not to say that McGinn isn't likely a 3rd liner either. 

 

Well, that's the problem with Foligno, isn't it? We all want him to be a power forward, and it's clear he has the size for it, but it just hasn't materialized, and I'm not sure if it ever will. To me, this feels just like hoping Stafford./Myers will pull it all together and become what we all hoped for. IMO, Marcus just won't

 

For shits and giggles, Avatar bet that Foligno doesn't hit 20 goals next year? I don't even think he hits 15

 

 

Yea exactly.  Foligno has spurts from time to time, but a whole lot of nothing in between.  Put a diff name on his back and i think fans like him a lot less. 

[tom webster]

I see much more from McGinn than I do from Foligno. That's not to say that McGinn isn't likely a 3rd liner either. 

 

Well, that's the problem with Foligno, isn't it? We all want him to be a power forward, and it's clear he has the size for it, but it just hasn't materialized, and I'm not sure if it ever will. To me, this feels just like hoping Stafford./Myers will pull it all together and become what we all hoped for. IMO, Marcus just won't

 

For shits and giggles, Avatar bet that Foligno doesn't hit 20 goals next year? I don't even think he hits 15

That's the point. McGinn has materialized into a solid third liner with second line potential and he is 4 years older.

Part of the problem, I believe is that the line is being blurred across the NHL as to what is top 6. It really is the top 4 with other interchangeable pieces being thrown in. There are currently only 108 players with 13 goals which gives them a chance of hitting 20. With 30 teams in the league, you will have roughly 4 players per team if you divided them equally. A winger that can score 15 goals is a legitimate top 6 forward in this league.

Yea exactly.  Foligno has spurts from time to time, but a whole lot of nothing in between.  Put a diff name on his back and i think fans like him a lot less. 

This is the new Daryl Talley. Talley went from being the most underrated player to being the ,most overrated because everyone kept calling him underrated. Foligno has gone form being a favored son because of his father to being underrated because of it. 

McGinn, 57 games  12 goals -13 assists - give him a new contract

Foligno  50 games  7 goals - 8 assists - he isn't even a bona fide NHL'er

[TrueBlueGED]

I see much more from McGinn than I do from Foligno. That's not to say that McGinn isn't likely a 3rd liner either.

 

Well, that's the problem with Foligno, isn't it? We all want him to be a power forward, and it's clear he has the size for it, but it just hasn't materialized, and I'm not sure if it ever will. To me, this feels just like hoping Stafford./Myers will pull it all together and become what we all hoped for. IMO, Marcus just won't

 

For shits and giggles, Avatar bet that Foligno doesn't hit 20 goals next year? I don't even think he hits 15

To be fair to Foligno, McGinn looked like a giant turd while playing in the bottom six. I agree McGinn has more finish, but for this team going forward, I think Foligno around $2 million makes a heck of a lot more sense than McGinn for around $3.2 million.

 

All that said, I agree that Foligno has shown who he is, and that's definitely not a top-6 player. 4 years pro is pretty close to my mendoza line for they are who they are.

[DeleteThisAccount]

not to suggest that there have or haven't been discussions, there is a sense i get that people shouldn't be surprised if Mark Pysyk gets moved at some point before the start of next season.

 

jw

[Patty16]

not to suggest that there have or haven't been discussions, there is a sense i get that people shouldn't be surprised if Mark Pysyk gets moved at some point before the start of next season.

 

jw

 

 

Interesting, before this season i would have thought that wasn't in the realm of possibility, but I haven't like his game this year.  But that's to be said of too many Sabres. 

[DeleteThisAccount]

Interesting, before this season i would have thought that wasn't in the realm of possibility, but I haven't like his game this year.  But that's to be said of too many Sabres. 

 

i'm hearing you're not the only one who hasn't liked Pysyk's game.

 

jw

[WildCard]

not to suggest that there have or haven't been discussions, there is a sense i get that people shouldn't be surprised if Mark Pysyk gets moved at some point before the start of next season.

 

jw

I wouldn't be shocked, but that really depletes an already abysmal back end. 

[Hoss]

not to suggest that there have or haven't been discussions, there is a sense i get that people shouldn't be surprised if Mark Pysyk gets moved at some point before the start of next season.

 

jw

Now THIS is good. Appreciate the insight. I think many can tell the team isnt as fond of him as many fans are. Moving him would still be a decent surprise.

[Eleven]

i'm hearing you're not the only one who hasn't liked Pysyk's game.

 

jw

 

I don't dislike his game, but I do wonder why so many gush over him.  He seems to be a good, not great, defenseman.  I think your colleague Hamilton is in love with him.

 

 

I wouldn't be shocked, but that really depletes an already abysmal back end. 

 

There's the problem with moving him.

[Patty16]

i'm hearing you're not the only one who hasn't liked Pysyk's game.

 

jw

 

I figured as much.

 

 For me, he's not "getting after it" as much and seems to have lost his insight into angles.   He's also playing a few LESS mins per game so I wonder if it's a rhythm thing. 

 

He has a certain skill set (supposedly) that would make another GM think he can still make him a pretty good NHL dman.  

[beerme1]

Perhaps a gentlemen's wager, with proceeds to charity, as to which player puts up more points *for the Sabres* next year?

 

 

Always open to this man! I'd go $25 City Mission for mine. Your qualifier "for the Sabres" is the obligatory poison pill then killing a bet should a trade occur. Unless you've got inside knowledge :ph34r:

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't dislike his game, but I do wonder why so many gush over him.  He seems to be a good, not great, defenseman.  I think your colleague Hamilton is in love with him.

 

 

 

There's the problem with moving him.

 

If we had 2 more good-but-not-great defensemen who could get the puck up ice without turning it over, our blue line wouldn't be a trainwreck. Mike Robitaille was on Hockey Hotline this morning talking about how our D deseperately needs to add a player or two who can move the puck up the ice to our forwards, and he thinks it's worth sacrificing defensive play to do it. I swooned.  :wub:  Roby

I figured as much.

 

 For me, he's not "getting after it" as much and seems to have lost his insight into angles.   He's also playing a few LESS mins per game so I wonder if it's a rhythm thing. 

 

He has a certain skill set (supposedly) that would make another GM think he can still make him a pretty good NHL dman.  

 

I think the coaching staff is so obsessed with "getting after it" physically that trying to get him to do it has thrown off the part of his game that is valuable. 

[beerme1]

If we had 2 more good-but-not-great defensemen who could get the puck up ice without turning it over, our blue line wouldn't be a trainwreck. Mike Robitaille was on Hockey Hotline this morning talking about how our D deseperately needs to add a player or two who can move the puck up the ice to our forwards, and he thinks it's worth sacrificing defensive play to do it. I swooned.  :wub:  Roby

 

I think the coaching staff is so obsessed with "getting after it" physically that trying to get him to do it has thrown off the part of his game that is valuable. 

 

 

But isn't that the supposed strong suit of Pysyk's game? Being able to move the puck up the ice quickly? It sure isn't the physical game and I see what you're saying that if they are demanding that from him he has lost his main game. Not sure I buy that though. Maybe nfreeman was right all along about Pysyk. There's nothing to see here move along?

[TrueBlueGED]

But isn't that the supposed strong suit of Pysyk's game? Being able to move the puck up the ice quickly? It sure isn't the physical game and I see what you're saying that if they are demanding that from him he has lost his main game. Not sure I buy that though. Maybe nfreeman was right all along about Pysyk. There's nothing to see here move along?

 

Sir, you can't pump Freeman's tires just a few posts after saying how wrong he was about something else. That's not how the internet's supposed to work :p

 

Our only defenseman who can currently effectively transition the puck is Risto. And yea, Pysyk's game is supposed to be transitioning the puck and smart positioning defensively. It's definitely been off this year, but if the coaches are trying to change his game in the Dzone, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that's thrown him off mentally. 

[nfreeman]

I wouldn't be shocked, but that really depletes an already abysmal back end. 

 

Well, it depends on what's coming back, innit?

 

I don't dislike his game, but I do wonder why so many gush over him.  He seems to be a good, not great, defenseman.  I think your colleague Hamilton is in love with him.

 

 

I believe it's called "former first-rounder desperate myopia."

 

Always open to this man! I'd go $25 City Mission for mine. Your qualifier "for the Sabres" is the obligatory poison pill then killing a bet should a trade occur. Unless you've got inside knowledge :ph34r:

 

Well, my point was that Larsson getting unloaded before next season is part of the bet -- otherwise, with Larsson apparently having secured a regular lineup spot and Schaller in Rochester, it would be a pretty foolish bet by me.

 

But isn't that the supposed strong suit of Pysyk's game? Being able to move the puck up the ice quickly? It sure isn't the physical game and I see what you're saying that if they are demanding that from him he has lost his main game. Not sure I buy that though. Maybe nfreeman was right all along about Pysyk. There's nothing to see here move along?

 

OK -- you can just have the $25.  Worth every penny!

 

 

Sir, you can't pump Freeman's tires just a few posts after saying how wrong he was about something else. That's not how the internet's supposed to work :P

 

Our only defenseman who can currently effectively transition the puck is Risto. And yea, Pysyk's game is supposed to be transitioning the puck and smart positioning defensively. It's definitely been off this year, but if the coaches are trying to change his game in the Dzone, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that's thrown him off mentally. 

 

Or, to go back to my preferred "nfreeman was right all along" perspective, his game is limited, and if he doesn't make the right decision, and execute the defensive-zone pass almost perfectly, a very, very high percentage of the time, he's not a viable top-4 NHL defenseman.

 

Having said that, my general impression this season is that he's played well enough to have secured a #6/#7 role (albeit on a bottom-8 team), which isn't bad for a first-year NHLer.  I'm in no hurry to unload him -- but if GMTM can package him with other assets for a better defenseman coming back -- I'm all for it.

[TrueBlueGED]

In further defense of Mark Pysyk:

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=6&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=9&saxis=103&mintoi=300&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2016-02-16&splitseasons=1

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5close&pos=defense&minutes=200&teamid=4&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

 

Sidenote: does anyone know how to embed the graph from war on ice? Says extension isn't valid here, but wondering if there's an easy workaround.

[beerme1]

 

OK -- you can just have the $25.  Worth every penny!

 

 

 

Or, to go back to my preferred "nfreeman was right all along" perspective, his game is limited, and if he doesn't make the right decision, and execute the defensive-zone pass almost perfectly, a very, very high percentage of the time, he's not a viable top-4 NHL defenseman.

 

Having said that, my general impression this season is that he's played well enough to have secured a #6/#7 role (albeit on a bottom-8 team), which isn't bad for a first-year NHLer.  I'm in no hurry to unload him -- but if GMTM can package him with other assets for a better defenseman coming back -- I'm all for it.

 

 

LOL. I do agree with your last point that if he can be used to better us, do it.

[That Aud Smell]

not to suggest that there have or haven't been discussions, there is a sense i get that people shouldn't be surprised if Mark Pysyk gets moved at some point before the start of next season.

 

huh. well, i reckon he's not a GM TM sorta player.

 

I don't dislike his game, but I do wonder why so many gush over him.  He seems to be a good, not great, defenseman.  

 

in fairness, there was a time where he looked to be Teppo Lite.

 

seems to have lost his insight into angles.   

 

great way of putting it.

 

I think the coaching staff is so obsessed with "getting after it" physically that trying to get him to do it has thrown off the part of his game that is valuable. 

 

this may be the closest to the truth. maybe he's not playing his game.

[TrueBlueGED]

Or, to go back to my preferred "nfreeman was right all along" perspective, his game is limited, and if he doesn't make the right decision, and execute the defensive-zone pass almost perfectly, a very, very high percentage of the time, he's not a viable top-4 NHL defenseman.

 

Having said that, my general impression this season is that he's played well enough to have secured a #6/#7 role (albeit on a bottom-8 team), which isn't bad for a first-year NHLer.  I'm in no hurry to unload him -- but if GMTM can package him with other assets for a better defenseman coming back -- I'm all for it.

 

It happens so infrequently, I understand wanting to cling it the few times it's valid :nana:

Edited February 16, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[MattPie]

 

In further defense of Mark Pysyk:

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=6&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=9&saxis=103&mintoi=300&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2016-02-16&splitseasons=1

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5close&pos=defense&minutes=200&teamid=4&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

 

Sidenote: does anyone know how to embed the graph from war on ice? Says extension isn't valid here, but wondering if there's an easy workaround.

 

 

I don't think there's a really easy embed, but save as .png and upload might work.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't think there's a really easy embed, but save as .png and upload might work.

 

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Eleven]

 

In further defense of Mark Pysyk:

 

http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=6&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=9&saxis=103&mintoi=300&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2016-02-16&splitseasons=1

 

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5close&pos=defense&minutes=200&teamid=4&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

 

Sidenote: does anyone know how to embed the graph from war on ice? Says extension isn't valid here, but wondering if there's an easy workar

 

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

 

 

So that tells me that he has a high Corsi, but that's correlated to less time on ice and more starts in the offensive zone, right?