Trade ideas and speculation

[nfreeman]

Maybe I'm crazy, but the ROR I see out there this year matches the best of Drury that I can remember.

 

I could very well be crazy though.

I am fully confident saying Jack will be better the briere.

ROR is better than Drury. No question in my mind.

 

That's all I have to say.

I second this. I see flashes in Jack that will propel him to legitimate stud status already, and ROR is better at both ends of the ice than Drury. I'll take these two over those two 100/100 times. Briere never controlled the tempo of a game like Jack does already.

 

There are a lot of pants being removed far too early here.

 

Let's remember that Drury was money in all situations, including the playoffs, and played the biggest role in muscling a terrible team into mature contender status.  ROR reminds me of Drury like no other Sabre has since Black Sunday, but ROR hasn't yet come close to delivering what Drury delivered.

 

And, speaking of money, let's also remember that Briere retired as #3 in post-lockout NHL playoff scoring.

 

Until you've done it, you haven't done it.

[Iron Crotch]

Why can't the Sabres pick any scorer or just any player of any consequence in the lower rounds? They always have to go for the shiny #1 draft pick and lately it's been top 5. Mogilny was a 5th rounder. Tom Brady was a 6th rounder.

 

My guess is that's why we're no good...too many failed drafts outside the top 5 picks.

 

You do make a good point. The ability to "hit" on some late round picks (2nd and later) is what can create sustained success for an organization. Any one of us on this board could have figured out the draft Samson or Jack. It is the picks beyond the first round that IMHO can solidify Murray as a top-tier GM. David Poille down here in Nashville has made a career out of hitting on late round picks.

 

Some of the current top scorers in the game that were later round picks: Jamie Benn (5th), Johnny Gaudreau (4th), Joe Pavelski (7th), John Klingberg (5th), Mike Cammalleri (2nd), Mike Hoffman (5th), Patrice Bergeron (2nd), etc.

[Randall Flagg]

There are a lot of pants being removed far too early here.

 

Let's remember that Drury was money in all situations, including the playoffs, and played the biggest role in muscling a terrible team into mature contender status. ROR reminds me of Drury like no other Sabre has since Black Sunday, but ROR hasn't yet come close to delivering what Drury delivered.

 

And, speaking of money, let's also remember that Briere retired as #3 in post-lockout NHL playoff scoring.

 

Until you've done it, you haven't done it.

No question that Drury's resume is superior right now. I happen to think that ROR will match it someday, but until he does it that means nothing. I do think, however, that ROR is,in a vacuum, better at playing hockey than Drury was. His stickwork on defense is Datsyukian and he is scoring at a rate similar to Drury's 05-07 rate while on a much worse team in a much lower-scoring era. Edited January 5, 2016 by Randall Flagg

[clintwestwood]

There are a lot of pants being removed far too early here.

 

Let's remember that Drury was money in all situations, including the playoffs, and played the biggest role in muscling a terrible team into mature contender status.  ROR reminds me of Drury like no other Sabre has since Black Sunday, but ROR hasn't yet come close to delivering what Drury delivered.

 

And, speaking of money, let's also remember that Briere retired as #3 in post-lockout NHL playoff scoring.

 

Until you've done it, you haven't done it.

I'm talking in terms of pure skill. Clutch is not the same of course, but I don't see either of these guys failing in the big play moments that will eventually come up for them. And I don't think it's too far fetched to say ROR is that guy who can muscle this young team into contender status. They're not Drury or Briere or terms of clutch yet, but they are in skill in my opinion.

I do think, however, that ROR is,in a vacuum, better at playing hockey than Drury was. His stickwork on defense is Datsyukian and he is scoring at a rate similar to Drury's 05-07 rate while on a much worse team in a much lower-scoring era.

Couldn't have worded it any better. His basic skill set is better, and ceiling is higher. Once those clutch moments come up I'm not worried about him falling short.

[Iron Crotch]

There are a lot of pants being removed far too early here.

 

Let's remember that Drury was money in all situations, including the playoffs, and played the biggest role in muscling a terrible team into mature contender status.  ROR reminds me of Drury like no other Sabre has since Black Sunday, but ROR hasn't yet come close to delivering what Drury delivered.

 

And, speaking of money, let's also remember that Briere retired as #3 in post-lockout NHL playoff scoring.

 

Until you've done it, you haven't done it.

 

Excellent point. I feel like I've been watching a different team that what people on this board are seeing. Ryan O'Reilly is tied for 25th in the league in scoring, leads all NHL forwards in ice time, is 4th in faceoff percentage and is our pretty much our best player (with a nod to Risto). Why in the world would folks want to move him to wing? From my vantage point ROR is one of the top two-way centers in the game.

 

Maybe Samson slots in as a third line center down the road... but to me he looks fine on the wing for the time being.

[inkman]

Maybe I'm crazy, but the ROR I see out there this year matches the best of Drury that I can remember.

Completely agree. O'Reilly is better in every way over Chris Drew-ry (RJ'S pronunciation drove me nuts). Eichel and Rdeindhardt might not quite be to Briere's level but it won't be long before both surpass it.

[Weave]

Yeah, ROR has shown me more raw talent that Drury did.  And his two way game is every bit as good.  He doesn't have the team achievements Drury had, but he's not on a team with Forsberg, Sakic, and Roy either.  Captain Clutch was Captain 3rd line for a chunk of his career.

[Thorner]

You stand by your comment that people treat Reinhart like a "leper?" :w00t: But yet you can't produce a single example? Now that is TRULY hilarious.

 

NOBODY is "criticizing" Reinhart. A statement was made up-thread that Reinhart should be C next year. You yourself dont believe he should. Other than providing commentary on the relative merits of Reinhart & the 2 players he'd need to supplant to fill that role in the top 6, how do you suggest we frame the argument on behalf of keeping him on the wing on a top 2 line?

 

He IS small relative to O'Reilly & Eichel. (Note: before you come back w/ he's taller than O'Reilly, NOBODY has said he isn't.) He IS slow relative to O'Reilly & Eichel. All of that is factual. Eventually he may be as big as them (doubtful, but possible); barring injury, in ~4-5 years he will be quicker than O'Reilly, though due to their relative ages it is doubtful that he'll ever be quicker than Eichel barring injury.

 

He will be a better player as he continues to mature. NOBODY denies that.

 

And most of the 'picking on' Reinhart is response to YOUR questions/posts. People here, myself included, like Reinhart & expect him to be an integral piece of the LT core. Your insistences that he's treated like a "leper" around here do not make you look astute. ;)

 

Aside: Apologies to Nobody - didn't mean to call him out this much. ;) :lol:

 

I agree with your thoughts on this matter. One nitpick - I wouldn't say Reinhart is SMALL and SLOW relative to the other too. He is smaller and slower than them. But he's not a ton smaller and a ton slower so I would draw the line there.

 

Further to the what to do with Reinhart discussion, why can't all three play centre?

 

Seems to me the last time the Sabres were a contender we ran with three pretty balanced lines.

I don't remember exactly (maybe because Lindy juggled so much), but wasn't it something like

Hecht/Briere/Dumont as a sorta top line, Drury/Grier anchoring a defensively strong line that could score, and some mix of Kotalik, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov and Vanek as a "3rd" line that got a lot of mismatches?

Why not Jack as a better Briere, ROR as a better Drury and Sam as a better Roy?

 

I could potentially see things shaking out like this, too. Good take.

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but the ROR I see out there this year matches the best of Drury that I can remember.

 

I could very well be crazy though.

 

I see it the same way. The talent is there, I'd say ROR is probably a shade more talented, and he is still improving I think. Whether he can deliver in the clutch like Drury did, we can't know. But he hasn't really had a chance to show us he can yet, and he seems like the type of player that would only improve in times most needed. He's already scoring big goals for us now and turning games around, so in a way he is already showing an ability to be clutch.

 

Excellent point. I feel like I've been watching a different team that what people on this board are seeing. Ryan O'Reilly is tied for 25th in the league in scoring, leads all NHL forwards in ice time, is 4th in faceoff percentage and is our pretty much our best player (with a nod to Risto). Why in the world would folks want to move him to wing? From my vantage point ROR is one of the top two-way centers in the game.

 

Maybe Samson slots in as a third line center down the road... but to me he looks fine on the wing for the time being.

 

I don't think people are in a rush to move ROR to the wing. But I think the idea is that if Reinhart develops into the player he has the potential to, he could eventually be our second best center and therefore he, at that time, should move to 2C. I'm good with Sam on wing right now, and for the near future.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Thorny

[qwksndmonster]

There are a lot of pants being removed far too early here.

 

Let's remember that Drury was money in all situations, including the playoffs, and played the biggest role in muscling a terrible team into mature contender status.  ROR reminds me of Drury like no other Sabre has since Black Sunday, but ROR hasn't yet come close to delivering what Drury delivered.

 

And, speaking of money, let's also remember that Briere retired as #3 in post-lockout NHL playoff scoring.

 

Until you've done it, you haven't done it.

Eh.  ROR hasn't had the chance to deliver what Drury delivered.  Success in the playoffs is important, but making the playoffs is a team achievement.  It's like saying Ovi isn't the best winger in the game because he doesn't have a cup.  (I know, I know, Patrick Kane.  I still think Ovi is better.)

[Marvelo]

You mean 70 goal scorers and hall of fame QBS are available in every round every year? :beer:

 

Maybe I should lower my sights and just talk about one low rounder who even makes it. Foligno is a 4th and Ullmark and Liewen were 6th and that's it. Since 2005.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Marvelo

[LGR4GM]

Maybe I should lower my sights and just talk about one low rounder who even makes it. Foligno is a 4th and Ullmark and Liewen were 6th and that's it. Since 2005.

That's true but we also just traded away EVERYONE who was anyone for picks and prospects.  I wouldn't expect a 4-7th rounder from 2013 to be anywhere near making this roster. I think that we also have to acknowledge how important it is to simply hit on 2nd-3rd round picks as well.  If Pittsburgh had drafted even mildly well during those rounds in the last 10 years they would have another cup. I am talking like 50% hit rate.  For Buffalo we have done well getting players like McCabe and Weber. If we really want to go back to 2005... Enroth, Weber, Tropp, McNabb, McCabe are the guys who have played at least 100 NHL games in those 2 rounds.  Seems about right to me.  If we get 2 players out of all the wingers we have stashed away, say Possler and Bailey then we are honestly doing really well for 2nd and 3rd round guys.

[TrueBlueGED]

Eh. ROR hasn't had the chance to deliver what Drury delivered. Success in the playoffs is important, but making the playoffs is a team achievement. It's like saying Ovi isn't the best winger in the game because he doesn't have a cup. (I know, I know, Patrick Kane. I still think Ovi is better.)

WildCard is going to assault you with a crutch.

[Hoss]

Columbus Dispatch reporting trade talks between the Predators and Blue Jackets have intensified. Wonder if we'll be seeing Ekholm/Jones for Johansen after all.

[LGR4GM]

Columbus Dispatch reporting trade talks between the Predators and Blue Jackets have intensified. Wonder if we'll be seeing Ekholm/Jones for Johansen after all.

Hmmm I actually think that thing isn't a bad deal to be had on either side.  I think Preds win that deal though.

[Hoss]

Hmmm I actually think that thing isn't a bad deal to be had on either side.  I think Preds win that deal though.

They do because they get the center and are loaded on defense. If I'm Columbus it's hard to do that deal without at least a good forward prospect coming back.

[LGR4GM]

Well they have Yakov Trenin (idk), Vladislav Kamenev, Thomas Novak, and Kevin Fiala in their prospect pool.

Edited January 6, 2016 by LGR4GM

[TrueBlueGED]

Columbus Dispatch reporting trade talks between the Predators and Blue Jackets have intensified. Wonder if we'll be seeing Ekholm/Jones for Johansen after all.

I'd love this trade for the Preds if it happens. I don't know what Columbus is doing though. I know they desperately need D help, but if they deal Johansen then they'll desperately need center help. Definition of spinning your tires.

[darksabre]

I'd love this trade for the Preds if it happens. I don't know what Columbus is doing though. I know they desperately need D help, but if they deal Johansen then they'll desperately need center help. Definition of spinning your tires.

Cody Hodgson? 

[qwksndmonster]

Cody Hodgson?

From Ted Nolan to Torts. You deserve this, Cody.

[Brawndo]

Bob McKenzie listed twelve teams as a possibility for Drouin in a radio interview today and The Sabres were not on the list.

[Iron Crotch]

Cody Hodgson? 

 

He is so ###### bad. Last night I was cursing out loud every time he got the puck in the scoring zone (was at the Preds - Jets game)... because I knew he would just cough it up. The Preds third line is terrible and Hodgson is a big reason for that.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Potato

[Hoss]

http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2016/01/jackets-predators-talks-intensify.html

 

More details on the trade talks.

 

Bob McKenzie listed twelve teams as a possibility for Drouin in a radio interview today and The Sabres were not on the list.

 

Here's his article on the subject: http://www.tsn.ca/so-many-questions-few-easy-answers-in-drouin-drama-1.418988

 

 

 

And in further trade talks: A lot of chatter about Vinny Lecavalier.

 

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie

"@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Rumblings blog from yesterday, Vincent Lecavalier: espn.go.com/blog/nhl/tag/_…" Hearing lots of Vinny trade chatter today.

 

He's owed $9M over the next two seasons beyond this one. Has only played seven games this season. Could be an opportunity to get Matt Moulson off the books ($5M each of the three seasons beyond this one) and shake up the wings a little.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Hoss

[WildCard]

Posted this in the GDT

Are a bunch of washed up vets really doing anything to prevent this? (referring to current vets stopping us from becoming Edmonton)

Honestly, I believe so. Look how much Jagr has helped the Panthers. Granted, yes, he is the ageless wonder, but you can't deny he might be the best trade Tallon has ever made for that team. I don't think Gionta or Moulson just have the same pedigree or vision to teach the younger guys that Jagr has; not that that's exactly easy to come by. But getting, I don't know, Kessler, Lecavalier, Iginla, Eric Staal...those are guys I think can be available and we can bring in to teach the kids more than just hustle, they can teach them where to be on the ice, what to look for, and how to win (well, maybe not Kessler in that department)

From Ted Nolan to Torts. You deserve this, Cody.

:lol:

[Hoss]

We have a trade:

 

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie

Sounds as if LA and PHI have something done. Hearing Luke Schenn L.A. bound. Possibly Lecavalier too? Stay tuned.

[WildCard]

Here's his article on the subject: http://www.tsn.ca/so-many-questions-few-easy-answers-in-drouin-drama-1.418988

 

 

Some of those teams may be just kicking tires. And, quite frankly, I’d be shocked, and then some, if the Lightning were to trade Drouin within their division and perhaps even the Eastern Conference. So if I were the Canadiens or Senators, for example, as much as Drouin is precisely the type of player they need, I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

Found this interesting 

 

We have a trade:

 

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie

Sounds as if LA and PHI have something done. Hearing Luke Schenn L.A. bound. Possibly Lecavalier too? Stay tuned.

 

Philly is open for business. Can't wait to see you in blue and gold, Wayne.