Did GMTM take a veiled shot at Ted Nolan during the WGR interview?

[LabattBlue]

Amen. Ted Nolan is gone. I don't care one bit about anything related to him at this point

I'll hop on this bandwagon.  I never viewed Nolan as anything more than a placeholder.  He's gone. Who cares. Good riddance.

[bunomatic]

any former sabre can pound sand for all I care :blink:. Wait, what ?

[inkman]

any former sabre can pound sand for all I care :blink:. Wait, what ?

We boo them all upon whence they return.

 

 

Seriously, Murray just fired the guy. I wouldn't expect him to be singing his praises. For the record, I don't think GMTM would do that to Nolan... Publicly.

[bunomatic]

We boo them all upon whence they return.

 

 

Seriously, Murray just fired the guy. I wouldn't expect him to be singing his praises. For the record, I don't think GMTM would do that to Nolan... Publicly.

Yeah ink I get it. I was just piling on.  ;)

[I am Defecting]

The Sabres were 1-10-1 in the 12 games before they re-signed Nolan to a multi-year contract.  At that time, 14 months ago, Murray said , “We have to get him better players.  It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.”

 

Did Murray get Nolan better players?  No, but the Sabres did get Nolan’s replacement better players.  I admire Nolan in that he fought a good fight in his struggle for victories.  His nagging Murray for better players, in the face of a blatant tank job, cost him his job, perhaps.  He might have lost it either way, but I admire how he went out risking everything, head held high.  You could say that losses were wins in those days, but in the heat of the battle,I felt quite strongly that Nolan was being set up to fail, and would be made scapegoat. 

 

To me it seems the fallout began with Nolan hinting at wanting more time to work with Mark Pysk.  Nolan praised Pysk quite heavily, calling him NHL ready, etc. and made it clear that he wanted him up with the team.  The BN described it as lobbying , and perhaps used the situation as an example of the tank run amok when Pysk was sent down. That’s the way that I remember the fallout beginning.  It grew colder from there.  I felt that Nolan was being more honest about the situation, and, if you've got to choose sides, I found that more admirable.

 

Perhaps Nolan isn’t a great coach, but what I also admired was his defiant attitude in the face of adversity.  That attitude could go a long way on a better team.  And to say he isn’t an X’s and O’s coach is due perhaps to Nolan’s emphasis on the mental aspects of the game.  On a team without elite physical talent, I could forgive a coach for trying to coach them up mentally.   What’s an X’s and O’s coach?  That makes hockey seem like Atari.  I never expect coaches to divulge their system publicly. He was clearly drawing something on the whiteboards, be it X’s, O’s, P’s or Q’s, it didn’t take a genius to figure out, as Murray said, he needed better players.

 

Though I was skeptical, I hoped that Murray had an ace up his sleeve when he fired Nolan, maybe even a trump like Babcock.  Murray clearly thought he could land Babcock, otherwise, why pursue him?   The lesson I’ve learned thus far is that Murray  doesn’t hold all the cards regarding who he can sign.  But, there are potentially better coaches than Nolan whom Murray may be able to hire. 

 

I don’t think it was a shot at Nolan, what Murray said.  Nolan couldn’t smooth over whatever rift developed, and Murray didn’t seem to want to patch things up, or get Ted better players for last season either.  That said, Nolan shouldn’t want a public fight now, and neither should Murray.  If Babcock, or Bylsma or whomever called Nolan, I’m sure Ted would give them some version of a story where he was promised better players, and when he didn’t get them, the relationship went sour.  Both Murray and Nolan run the risk of seeming difficult to work with and impossible to please.

 

I don’t think it was shot at Nolan, what Murray said, nor what Weber and other players didn’t say.  If the players had anything good to say about Nolan, it would be risking their jobs to say it.   If they had anything bad to say, I haven’t heard a peep yet.  Anybody can make up what they want to hear, in the silence, thus far on the issue.  We speculate a lot on this message board.  It’s just speculation. 

 

I’m just noting that I didn’t take offense, as a Nolan fan, to what Murray said, because the internet meme of Ted Nolan, that you might take his words to represent – work hard, forecheck – probably doesn’t register with Murray,  a guy that’s re-hired and fired worked with Nolan extensively.  There’s little there to indicate he was talking about Nolan. Murray seemed to be trying to get across the point that it would take a lot of sophistication both to get the open coaching job, and to hire the right guy this time.

[qwksndmonster]

Good stuff Yuri.  That's the first post about Nolan since he got fired that I enjoyed reading.

[shrader]

I think it's a bit much to say that the tank cost Nolan his job.  He never would have had the job in the first place if it wasn't for the tank.  He was hired as a transitional coach and even he knew it.  Can anyone thing of examples of a coach, hired when a team is at rock bottom, sticking around long enough to see the team return to prosperity?  I'm sure there are a few, but let's face it, when the typical coach is lucky to stick around for maybe 4 years, Nolan had to know there was very little shot at a long future here.

[dudacek]

I think it's a bit much to say that the tank cost Nolan his job.  He never would have had the job in the first place if it wasn't for the tank.  He was hired as a transitional coach and even he knew it.  Can anyone thing of examples of a coach, hired when a team is at rock bottom, sticking around long enough to see the team return to prosperity?  I'm sure there are a few, but let's face it, when the typical coach is lucky to stick around for maybe 4 years, Nolan had to know there was very little shot at a long future here.

 

I did some research and posted it on here a while back on what happened to coaches of last-place teams. I couldn't find any examples.

[Weave]

I think it's a bit much to say that the tank cost Nolan his job.  He never would have had the job in the first place if it wasn't for the tank.  He was hired as a transitional coach and even he knew it.  Can anyone thing of examples of a coach, hired when a team is at rock bottom, sticking around long enough to see the team return to prosperity?  I'm sure there are a few, but let's face it, when the typical coach is lucky to stick around for maybe 4 years, Nolan had to know there was very little shot at a long future here.

 

 

I did some research and posted it on here a while back on what happened to coaches of last-place teams. I couldn't find any examples.

 

 

Babcock chose well.   :rolleyes:

[I am Defecting]

I think it's a bit much to say that the tank cost Nolan his job.  He never would have had the job in the first place if it wasn't for the tank.  He was hired as a transitional coach and even he knew it.  Can anyone thing of examples of a coach, hired when a team is at rock bottom, sticking around long enough to see the team return to prosperity?  I'm sure there are a few, but let's face it, when the typical coach is lucky to stick around for maybe 4 years, Nolan had to know there was very little shot at a long future here.

Patty LaFontaine brought Ted in to be hired.  I'd bet Ted felt he had more security when Patty was still employed.  When Patty res(z)igned, sure Ted must have questioned his long term future here.  It took Ted weeks, in fact, to hammer out the language on the extension, and finally agree to an extension deal.  At that point, Murray said, "We need to get him better players; it doesn't take a genius to figure that out."  So, I think Ted knew he might be fired, but thought that he would be given a fair shot to win games.  When he wasn't given the players, e.g. Pysk, then I do think Nolan realized he was just being used, and got bitter and hostile with Murray as a result - because he had been lied to about getting better players.  It may be a bit much to say that the tank cost Nolan his job, but it was a factor in the mutual resentment between Murray and Nolan, from what I could tell.

[TheFunPolice]

Murray can make you believe that it was Friday today if you gave him 10 minutes.

 

I love the guy but he is very good at politics (which is a plus for a GM IMO)

[tom webster]

I'm still waiting for these fans of Nolan to explain why he can't even get an interview anywhere else.

And as far as players keeping quiet in support of TN, they all have guaranteed contracts. They could care less what management thinks of their opinion. Over and over they talk about what a great guy he is but how the team is looking forward to more structure and professionalism.

Edited May 27, 2015 by tom webster

[K-9]

Yes, if only the great hockey mind of Ted Nolan had Mark Pysyk in his lineup, everything would have been different.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[I am Defecting]

I'm still waiting for these fans of Nolan to explain why he can't even get an interview anywhere else.

And as far as players keeping quiet in support of TN, they all have guaranteed contracts. They could care less what management thinks of their opinion. Over and over they talk about what a great guy he is but how the team is looking forward to more structure and professionalism.

Nolan did get an interview with the Vancouver Giants.  There is a thread on this.  Fingers crossed, as a Nolan fan, that he lands the job.  But if he takes a job like that, would he have to forfeit the million(s) coming to him from the Sabres?

 

"The players could care less what management thinks of their opinion?"  I respectfully disagree.  They can be fined by the team, given less playing time, or less money in their next contract.  Borderline NHL players would be particularly vulnerable to being cut or having their reputations tarnished in a business where opportunities are hard to come by.

 

"Over and over they talk about... how the team is looking forward to more structure and professionalism."  I question whether by over and over, you mean once from Weber, in reference to Babcock, without any reference to Nolan or the word "more," in the singular quote.

 

Lots of questions.

 

 

Yes, if only the great hockey mind of Ted Nolan had Mark Pysyk in his lineup, everything would have been different.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Hey, I like the guy, but this is just crazy.

[K-9]

Hey, I like the guy, but this is just crazy.

I think you are underestimating Ted Nolan, Mark Pysysk, or both.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[tom webster]

Nolan did get an interview with the Vancouver Giants. There is a thread on this. Fingers crossed, as a Nolan fan, that he lands the job. But if he takes a job like that, would he have to forfeit the million(s) coming to him from the Sabres?

 

"The players could care less what management thinks of their opinion?" I respectfully disagree. They can be fined by the team, given less playing time, or less money in their next contract. Borderline NHL players would be particularly vulnerable to being cut or having their reputations tarnished in a business where opportunities are hard to come by.

 

"Over and over they talk about... how the team is looking forward to more structure and professionalism." I question whether by over and over, you mean once from Weber, in reference to Babcock, without any reference to Nolan or the word "more," in the singular quote.

 

Lots of questions.

 

 

 

Hey, I like the guy, but this is just crazy.

Gionta, Gorges, Moulson, Hasek, back in the day. Juniors is where Nolsn belongs. Working with teams that may have one or two players with NHL ability who he can't harm, the rest of the team can get real life lessons from him.

[I am Defecting]

I suspect a lot of folks around here are fatigued by any Nolan conversation.  It's water under the bridge.  I can accept and am hoping that the Sabres find a better coach than Nolan.  I never would try to argue that Nolan's better than Babcock.  When Nolan was brought back with Patty, I wrote here, on that surprising day, that it seemed stupid to me, but that lots of things in sports might seem stupid.  Down 0-3 games to the Yanks in the ALCS, the Redsox started calling themselves the Idiots, and the rest is history.  

 

“One thing led to another and it was like, ‘Wow, this guy is pretty impressive,’ so I guess I popped the question,” Pegula said. “I asked him if he thought he could be a GM. He said, ‘No, but here’s what I think I can do.’ ”

 

It was one of those days when the traffic brought the board down.  It was, to set the context, two weeks after Battista was hired, the day that Rolston and Regier were fired, and some time before Patty led the search to hire Murray.  Pegula and Patty bumped into one another in a restaurant, and the beginnings of a plan were formed in Terry's head.  Second meeting, Pegula offered Patty the GM job, and Patty said, I've got zero experience as GM, but I will use my contacts to help you with the job.  And Patty was hired as President of Hockey Operations.  Ted was brought in as interim coach 'till the new GM could pick his own guy.  All of that was known up front.  The new GM would choose his own coach. 

 

General sentiment here was more surprise at the Nolan hire, than at the return of Patty.  Someone may have even predicted Lala coming back.  Hoss saw it coming, he wrote.  At the same time, most everyone was just so relieved to get rid of Regier.  It was a happy happy press conference thread.  A few here expressed their doubts, rightly so, that the moves reeked of nostalgia.  If anyone from our ranks deserves a merit badge for healthy skepticism and foresight, well done Shrader.  But Regier Is Gone was the biggest headline of all.  Let's not forget, Battista was hired shortly before, so there's my hatchet man theory born.

 

In hindsight, the LaFontaine hiring was probably a mistake.  It makes me think Terry just couldn't find a GM by himself.  And if you're like minded, he couldn't even fire a GM by himself.  He appeared to be in over his head, making every excuse for mistakes, and still in retreat over his over his "ain't going anywhere" whoopsie.  Anyway, LaFontaine was well received by just about everyone here.  Patty, in his own haste, because it was right during the season, had Nolan ready to assume coaching duties immediately.  Just about everyone here was OK with that.  It was definitely interim.  Both were there for the immediate finite task of getting the culture changed, and the franchise turned around.  They were then supposed to ride off into the sunset.

 

Ostensibly, Patty's job was done the minute he hired Tim Murray.  Maybe part of the deal was that he would help Tim Murray transition.  That didn't work out so well.  Pat's resignation put Pegula in another embarrassing spot.  It also put Tim Murray, as a first time GM, just weeks on the job in a very difficult position regarding his team's coach.  What do we do about Nolan?  It was March 1st, of the same damn season.  They hardly waited.  Almost immediately, Nolan was offered a three year contract extension.  The same Ted Nolan who was VP of Hockey Operations of the Amerks 'till Pegula bought the team and Darcy fired him.  With Patty gone, why not let Nolan go that first off-season?  

 

"I don't know if there was one 'Eureka moment,' " Murray said on contract day. "But I certainly got to the point where I knew I wanted him back, and I wanted him to be our head coach. And that wasn't yesterday or the day before."

 

Murray was only two months on the job when the contract was offered.  At face value, this was Murray's chance to choose his guy, and he chose Nolan.  If that's the case, then he made a big mistake.  The other possibility is that Pegula forced Nolan on Murray, also a big mistake.  I suppose the talk around town, even before the season began was a lot about McDavid, and Nolan being coach was just taken for granted.  Some thought we'd improve.  Most didn't.

 

It was probably a PR mistake to keep Nolan on.  They'd have lost a lot more gracefully under someone less beloved.  There have been lots of mistakes, I find it hard to reason extending Nolan for three years, just to fire him after this season was somehow wise.  Ruff was given a huge extension before being fired, and Rolston, and Regier, now Nolan.  I hope that Murray was a good hire, but that really would be an aberration under this ownership.  I tend to think it was Pegula's decision to force Nolan on Murray, so that's a tough break GMTM, and better luck moving forward.

 

It’s water under the bridge, the whole Nolan fiasco, but I don’t like the truth to be distorted.  There’s speculation, and there’s character assassination.  Not a single player mentioned above, '97 era Hasek excepted, has publicly said anything disparaging about Nolan as a coach or as a person.   

 

"No one wanted to see the coaches get fired"  http://media.wgr550.com/a/104152343/414-brian-gionta-talks-nolan-s-firing.htm

 

As I said, I don’t like the truth to be distorted, or blatant lies to be told, so I do what I can to set the record straight.  If someone tells the same lies over, and over, some people might think it’s the truth, e.g. Nolan and Hasek’s wife.  That's a rumor that should have died 17 years ago.  In 2033, I'd hate to have people writing that the players all trashed Nolan when he left.

 

He would tell some pretty sweet life stories too.  This posts for you Ted Nolan.  Excelsior!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Teddy!

 

I miss Anna. She was strong, yet fragile at the same time. I felt I could help.

 

Yuri....I don't think he needs any help.....

[DeleteThisAccount]

Forgot to post this but when I was listening to the interview and heard the comment I immediately thought it was a veiled shot at Nolan, who is not an X's and O's coach...

 

 

The section of the interview starts around the 12:00 mark of the interview where they are talking about what kind of coaching candidates he is looking for...

 

http://www.wgr550.com/Sabres-Tim-Murray-discusses-Babcock/21546278

 

 

Anyway the comment was:

 

"These coaches are pretty smart, they're very aware of analytics, they're very aware of a lot of things...I don't think there's anybody, not even the most old school guys that are gonna come in here and say 'We're gonna work hard, we're gonna forecheck hard, and we'll let the chips fall where they may.' There's way more preparation involved than that.  These guys aren't stupid.  This is a big job, and they come in prepared and try to wow you."

 

 

I was like...whoa...sounds like a direct shot at Nolan's "work hard and forecheck hard" mantra, lol

 

 

yes, he did. trust me, that comment jumped out at me immediately when i heard it.

 

jw

[I am Defecting]

yes, he did. trust me, that comment jumped out at me immediately when i heard it.

 

jw

With all due respect to a fellow poster, your impression comes off as subjective to me.  Why didn't you qualify it with a "seems to me," rather than the quasi-omniscient vibe?   :rolleyes:

 

I just don't get why Murray would be taking cheap shots. 

[DeleteThisAccount]

With all due respect to a fellow poster, your impression comes off as subjective to me.  Why didn't you qualify it with a "seems to me," rather than the quasi-omniscient vibe?   :rolleyes:

 

I just don't get why Murray would be taking cheap shots. 

 

it was an unfiltered "subtweet" in my opinion. but there were many inside the Sabres organization that had soured on Ted Nolan.

 

jw

[JJFIVEOH]

What ever did happen to Anna? 

[Weave]

What ever did happen to Anna? 

 

What ever did happen to Anna? 

 

Have you ever seen Anna and Yuri in the same room at the same time?

[shrader]

it was an unfiltered "subtweet" in my opinion. but there were many inside the Sabres organization that had soured on Ted Nolan.

 

jw

How long did it take for that to happen?  I feel like it only should have been a couple weeks.  There had to have been at least a few remnants left over from Nolan's first time here who weren't fond of him, even if it's the grizzled usher who still wants to rip tickets in half instead of using the hand-held scanner.

[Drunkard]

How long did it take for that to happen?  I feel like it only should have been a couple weeks.  There had to have been at least a few remnants left over from Nolan's first time here who weren't fond of him, even if it's the grizzled usher who still wants to rip tickets in half instead of using the hand-held scanner.

You should lay off the ticket ripper. He has edge and compete and brings his lunch pail into work with him day in and day out.