bunomatic Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 All he is worth to me is CoHo, Foligno, and the 21st pick. IMO RoR is a slightly better player than Foligno. Personally to me he is a over hyped and way overvalued. I wouldn't trade anything close to what has been suggested in this thread. I'm in agreement on the hype. He happens to be the latest flavour. Most offers suggested are huge overpayment as is his suggested salary.
MattPie Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 All these trade proposals (expect that Hodgson/Foligno one) seem like an awful lot to give up for a guy that, IMHO, is going to be on the market next July.
X. Benedict Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 All these trade proposals (expect that Hodgson/Foligno one) seem like an awful lot to give up for a guy that, IMHO, is going to be on the market next July. I don't think his price will be two roster players and a pick. Who would the Sabres really be bidding against?
MattPie Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I don't think his price will be two roster players and a pick. Who would the Sabres really be bidding against? I think this kind of deal is a year or two too early for the Sabres. Teams that would want ROR for only one season would be teams on the cusp of real contention, especially those that are fearing they don't have too many kicks left at the can (Vancouver, I'm looking at you). The Sabres can afford to wait until next year and pick him up for free. If the Sabres are .500 next season it'll be a pleasant surprise so why burn assets on a down season. I guess the argument is over the course of a year ROR will be convinced to sign. I'm not buying it; being in Colorado didn't convince him to sign there.
LastPommerFan Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I think this kind of deal is a year or two too early for the Sabres. Teams that would want ROR for only one season would be teams on the cusp of real contention, especially those that are fearing they don't have too many kicks left at the can (Vancouver, I'm looking at you). The Sabres can afford to wait until next year and pick him up for free. If the Sabres are .500 next season it'll be a pleasant surprise so why burn assets on a down season. I guess the argument is over the course of a year ROR will be convinced to sign. I'm not buying it; being in Colorado didn't convince him to sign there. I think the assumption for (most of) the posters advocating a trade is that there will be an extension negotiated prior to and contingent upon the trade. Does anyone know if there is any CBA language relating to a sign&trade agreement? Or precedent under the current CBA?
LGR4GM Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Posted May 19, 2015 We really haven't established ROR value yet have we?
MattPie Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I think the assumption for (most of) the posters advocating a trade is that there will be an extension negotiated prior to and contingent upon the trade. Does anyone know if there is any CBA language relating to a sign&trade agreement? Or precedent under the current CBA? For some reason, I thought the previous CBA (2005) didn't allow it, but I have no idea on the current one. But yes, an agreement before the trade changes the equation.
Thorner Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) I've supported a ROR trade always but I wouldn't want Risto moved for anything less than a defenseman already playing at or near Risto's ceiling. This. I'm not giving up Ristolainen in a package in a trade for O'Reilly. We are much deeper in prospective forwards than we are in prospective defense right now. It would be trading our D-man with the highest potential ceiling for a guy, who while very good, is playing a position in which we have more strength. A package that included Girgensons and Zadorov and the 21st pick would be more reasonable. It is still something I'd hesitate to offer. I think I would do Grigorenko, Zadorov, and the 21. But, that many of us would make that deal means Colorado will probably ask for more. I think this package would be my personal limit. Edited May 19, 2015 by Thorny
Hoss Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 We really haven't established ROR value yet have we? No, we have. Individually. Rarely is there a player where a fan base collectively agrees on what their value is aside from the superstars and the bottom feeders. Keep trying. :p
Taro T Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I think the assumption for (most of) the posters advocating a trade is that there will be an extension negotiated prior to and contingent upon the trade. Does anyone know if there is any CBA language relating to a sign&trade agreement? Or precedent under the current CBA? Haven't seen any restrictions on such under the new CBA other than the standard deals can't be extended until their in the final year and 1 year deals can't be reworked prior to January. So, it appears the Avs could let somebody talk to his agent starting in July. 7.3 states: except where otherwise permitted, no player who is a party to an SPC with a club shall, during the term of such SPC, enter into negotiations with another club. I read that as a team can permit the player to negotiate w/ other teams. But not until after July 1.
LGR4GM Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Posted May 19, 2015 No, we have. Individually. Rarely is there a player where a fan base collectively agrees on what their value is aside from the superstars and the bottom feeders. Keep trying. :P Keep trying what?
Hoss Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 Keep trying what? To make those supporting an O'Reilly trade seem like confused, disorganized fools. :p I'm just messing around. I think there's different groups of posters that value him on a similar level in each group.
SabresBillsFan Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I like O'Reilly but I just don't think you give up a ton to get him. Grigs, Hodgson and the late first are plenty to me but I highly doubt Colorado wants those two players. I think Cody if he's on this team to start the year will rebound and if Grigs continues to work he should be much improved.
Hoss Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I like O'Reilly but I just don't think you give up a ton to get him. Grigs, Hodgson and the late first are plenty to me but I highly doubt Colorado wants those two players. I think Cody if he's on this team to start the year will rebound and if Grigs continues to work he should be much improved. It's your prerogative if that's how you truly value O'Reilly, but that deal isn't even close to what it would take.
beerme1 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I think this kind of deal is a year or two too early for the Sabres. Teams that would want ROR for only one season would be teams on the cusp of real contention, especially those that are fearing they don't have too many kicks left at the can (Vancouver, I'm looking at you). The Sabres can afford to wait until next year and pick him up for free. If the Sabres are .500 next season it'll be a pleasant surprise so why burn assets on a down season. I guess the argument is over the course of a year ROR will be convinced to sign. I'm not buying it; being in Colorado didn't convince him to sign there. I've been thinking this for some time now. I would love to get ROR. But this talk of Risto going a deal is just insane. I don't want to part with Nikita to get it done. Pysyk maybe but I really think since we aren't winning the cup next year we should just let this one be and see what happens when he hits FA. Hell who knows, maybe even his salary demands are a little more reasonable by then. Not likely but why should we give up anything to get him now? Of course if we can move Cody in a deal that changes the whole thing.
Hoss Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I've been thinking this for some time now. I would love to get ROR. But this talk of Risto going a deal is just insane. I don't want to part with Nikita to get it done. Pysyk maybe but I really think since we aren't winning the cup next year we should just let this one be and see what happens when he hits FA. Hell who knows, maybe even his salary demands are a little more reasonable by then. Not likely but why should we give up anything to get him now? Of course if we can move Cody in a deal that changes the whole thing. I think if you went back and read the thread you'd realize that there really isn't any legitimate talk about Risto being in the trade. Liger has been saying that, since we have a high opinion of O'Reilly, that Risto would be involved in the talks. Others have taken the time that they would NOT trade Risto for him (I don't know anybody that would). That's the extent of the Risto conversation.
Thorner Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I think if you went back and read the thread you'd realize that there really isn't any legitimate talk about Risto being in the trade. Liger has been saying that, since we have a high opinion of O'Reilly, that Risto would be involved in the talks. Others have taken the time that they would NOT trade Risto for him (I don't know anybody that would). That's the extent of the Risto conversation. nfreeman specifically mentioned Murray possibly including Risto in a deal. That is where some of this is probably stemming from as well.
dudacek Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 Girgensons and Gorges/Pysyk for O'Reilly and #10 (where we grab Werenski or Provorov). I don't like it because I believe in Girgensons' upside, but Murray may think we've seen the best Zemgus has to give.
beerme1 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 Ok so I feel this. NFW Murray trades Zem, Zad, Gorges, Risto in a ROR deal. I think if you went back and read the thread you'd realize that there really isn't any legitimate talk about Risto being in the trade. Liger has been saying that, since we have a high opinion of O'Reilly, that Risto would be involved in the talks. Others have taken the time that they would NOT trade Risto for him (I don't know anybody that would). That's the extent of the Risto conversation. Maybe I'm starting to slow down young man. Sometime with work and drink, I cant keep up with all the message boards interweb stuff. :P
Randall Flagg Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 Ok so I feel this. NFW Murray trades Zem, Zad, Gorges, Risto in a ROR deal. Maybe I'm starting to slow down young man. Sometime with work and drink, I cant keep up with all the message boards interweb stuff. :P If we got ROR in a deal centered around Gorges I think everyone would dance in the streets :)
beerme1 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 If we got ROR in a deal centered around Gorges I think everyone would dance in the streets :) True but even though GMTM may not have emotions, he won't want to deal a guy who said no thanks to Toronto so he could come to Buffalo so soon after Babcock is considering the shatting upon the Leafs also. Karma. Gionta is here for the rest of his time as a player. 1 year, two three who knows but I just don't see GMTM parting with a guy who was willing to come here when the team was looking at rock bottom. And to add to that, I like him as a player. He has a lot to offer our D for a number of years. Perfect vet imo. Never mind keeping a guy like Tallinder past prime as much as I respect Hank. Josh should have a pretty good six or seven year run here before hanging them up filling that same position.
deluca67 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 Girgensons and Gorges/Pysyk for O'Reilly and #10 (where we grab Werenski or Provorov). I don't like it because I believe in Girgensons' upside, but Murray may think we've seen the best Zemgus has to give. Why would Colorado even consider this deal? They are giving up the best player in the deal and the #10 pick for what? They can pickup a Georges in free agency and Pysyk is a huge question mark. I like Girgensons, no team is giving up a top six forward and a top 10 draft pick for him. I don't think his price will be two roster players and a pick. Who would the Sabres really be bidding against? You wouldn't think there would be a bunch of teams interested in a 25 year old center that can play both ends of the ice? If the Av's put O'Reilly on the trade market someone is going to over pay. i wouldn't count out any team. I can see teams looking at O'Reilly as a finishing piece of their puzzle.
LGR4GM Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Posted May 19, 2015 Girgensons and Gorges/Pysyk for O'Reilly and #10 (where we grab Werenski or Provorov). I don't like it because I believe in Girgensons' upside, but Murray may think we've seen the best Zemgus has to give. Hold the phone. Ryan O'Reilly is in the discussion for improving his production from about 50pts to possibly 60pts. But Zemgus who was literally in only his 2nd NHL season may have given "the best he has to give". Also just to clarify I understand you are suggesting Murray may believe this but if he does than Murray is not the great "young talent" evaluator we have been told he is. I am clearly seeing Zemgus in a different light. The guy doubled his goal production in 9 less games and was our 2nd best forward as a 21yr old.
nfreeman Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 Why would Colorado even consider this deal? They are giving up the best player in the deal and the #10 pick for what? They can pickup a Georges in free agency and Pysyk is a huge question mark. I like Girgensons, no team is giving up a top six forward and a top 10 draft pick for him. You wouldn't think there would be a bunch of teams interested in a 25 year old center that can play both ends of the ice? If the Av's put O'Reilly on the trade market someone is going to over pay. i wouldn't count out any team. I can see teams looking at O'Reilly as a finishing piece of their puzzle. I agree that someone is going to overpay for ROR, but the contract has to be factored in. It's going to depress his market value. No one is going to give up much for him without having an extension in place or at least feeling very confident about being able to sign him. ROR is going to make it clear which teams he's interested in signing with and which he isn't. That is going to reduce the number of bidders. I think ultimately ROR, if he is traded this summer, will go to a team willing to give up a young top-pairing defenseman. Colorado needs defenseman and they don't want to spend $7MM per year to get one. For the Sabres to make that trade, it has to be Risto or maybe Bogo.
deluca67 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Posted May 19, 2015 I agree that someone is going to overpay for ROR, but the contract has to be factored in. It's going to depress his market value. No one is going to give up much for him without having an extension in place or at least feeling very confident about being able to sign him. ROR is going to make it clear which teams he's interested in signing with and which he isn't. That is going to reduce the number of bidders. I think ultimately ROR, if he is traded this summer, will go to a team willing to give up a young top-pairing defenseman. Colorado needs defenseman and they don't want to spend $7MM per year to get one. For the Sabres to make that trade, it has to be Risto or maybe Bogo. I would go into a deep depression if the Sabres trade Zach Bogosian.
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