What would you do to increase offense?

[LastPommerFan]

yeah exactly.  i always thought the size of the rink was the problem...but the olympics suggest that wasn't the case.

 

make the goal bigger, make the goalie pads smaller and call holding/obstruction.  

 

Goals against the big 5 (USA, CAN, SWE, FIN, and RUS) in group play were up 10% on the bigger surface in Sochi. (27 GA in Sochi vs 24 GA in Vancouver)

 

In Torino, those 5 let in an astounding 47 goals in group play.

 

Sochi was an anomaly.

[SwampD]

I also think they should outlaw roller hockey in the summertime. You can only play street (deck) hockey. Kids don't learn how to really stickhandle anymore cuz they don't have to.

[darksabre]

Goalie pads are never going to be reduced and people need to stop suggesting it. Unless the NHL bans goalies from playing the butterfly this is the smallest pads are ever going to get.

[Kruppstahl]

I doubt we'll ever see a meaningful reduction in pad size.  I think that increasing the net 4-6" in width has a much more reasonable chance of happening and has a similar result.

 

I'm still more interested in seeing the flow of the game from pre-NJD SC winners returned than I am 7 goal games.

Why won't we see a reduction in pad size?  We may not, but it is certainly possible, easy to initiate and control, and it would have an immediate impact on the game.  

 

I would rather see equipment get small as opposed to nets get big, b/c the historical continuity of the game would actually be preserved with the former approach, and blown to hell with the latter approach.

 

I totally agree with you that the desired outcome here should be the way the game is played, not number of goals.

 

A super exciting, end-to-end rushing game that is 2-1 is the most exciting thing on earth.  It places a huge value on scoring a goal and it's a big deal when a goal is scored.

 

On weird nights when everything that is shot goes in, and the final score is 7-6...well...that is boring.  Goals are cheap on those nights and you figure "no big deal" when a goal is scored, b/c you'll get it right back in 4 minutes anyway.

That's called "basketball" where scoring is very cheap indeed and the winner is usually decided by who scores last before a clock counts down to zero.

That crap is boring!

 

Goalie pads are never going to be reduced and people need to stop suggesting it. Unless the NHL bans goalies from playing the butterfly this is the smallest pads are ever going to get.

Why do you say that pads will never get smaller?

 

They have become absurdly HUGE over time, and it certainly is not a safety matter for the goalie.

[darksabre]

Why won't we see a reduction in pad size? We may not, but it is certainly possible, easy to initiate and control, and it would have an immediate impact on the game.

 

I would rather see equipment get small as opposed to nets get big, b/c the historical continuity of the game would actually be preserved with the former approach, and blown to hell with the latter approach.

 

I totally agree with you that the desired outcome here should be the way the game is played, not number of goals.

 

A super exciting, end-to-end rushing game that is 2-1 is the most exciting thing on earth. It places a huge value on scoring a goal and it's a big deal when a goal is scored.

 

On weird nights when everything that is shot goes in, and the final score is 7-6...well...that is boring. Goals are cheap on those nights and you figure "no big deal" when a goal is scored, b/c you'll get it right back in 4 minutes anyway.

That's called "basketball" where scoring is very cheap indeed and the winner is usually decided by who scores last before a clock counts down to zero.

That crap is boring!

 

 

Why do you say that pads will never get smaller?

 

They have become absurdly HUGE over time, and it certainly is not a safety matter for the goalie.

It is absolutely a matter of safety for the goalie. Players are shooting harder than ever and crashing the net as unapologetically as ever. The butterfly necessitates the larger chest arms because back in Jim Craig's day they didn't go down on every shot. Unless they tell goalies they can't play it Patrick Roy's way they're always going to need pads like this.

[X. Benedict]

 

The NHL is horribly talent-diluted and long since over-expanded.  Guaranteed contracts have destroyed individual player motivation on most nights.  

 

I'm of the opposite opinion. There is much more talent in the league top to bottom than 30 years ago. The athletes are bigger, faster, stronger and drawing from a world-wide talent base. 30 years ago, no russians, only defected czechs......and I just look at the talent on 4th lines today around the league today compared to years ago. These guys are phenomenal athletes.  

 

Play, on a night to night basis, is much more intense than when only 4 or 5  teams missed the playoffs. 

 

Adding teams has made the nightly competition much more fierce and meaningful than when standings didn't change after Christmas and teams played for ties on the road. 

[LastPommerFan]

It is absolutely a matter of safety for the goalie. Players are shooting harder than ever and crashing the net as unapologetically as ever. The butterfly necessitates the larger chest arms because back in Jim Craig's day they didn't go down on every shot. Unless they tell goalies they can't play it Patrick Roy's way they're always going to need pads like this.

 

Just as much or more protection could be provided under a more form fitting jersey. 

[darksabre]

Just as much or more protection could be provided under a more form fitting jersey.

The problem is you can't market that protection down through a lineup. I saw freeman's suggestion about Kevlar or something. The problem is no parent is buying their kid Kevlar pads, so it's a non starter from a product standpoint. Goalie pads are already crazy expensive. There's no way you'll convince the players and the equipment companies to do something like that. It'll kill the position.

I'll be honest with you. As someone who regularly suits up in this stuff, it's the most flexible and accommodating that the gear has ever been. I don't want that to change.

[Kruppstahl]

It is absolutely a matter of safety for the goalie. Players are shooting harder than ever and crashing the net as unapologetically as ever. The butterfly necessitates the larger chest arms because back in Jim Craig's day they didn't go down on every shot. Unless they tell goalies they can't play it Patrick Roy's way they're always going to need pads like this.

Thanks for the clarification.  I think you are completely wrong.

 

And even if we are to assume harder shot velocities require the knee pad to be 6" wider than is necessary for safety, all you have to do is go back to wooden sticks, which should have always been maintained the moment #99 and a few others started showing up with aluminum shafts.

 

EDIT:  For clarification, I would like to stress that I think goalies can be well protected while reducing the "frontal area" of their equipment substantially.

 

Composite sticks have seen increased shot velocities across the board, but not outside of moderate tolerances.

 

Whatever velocity gains have been achieved on average don't negate "old fashioned" equipment.

If players started shooting 200 mph or something meaningful, that argument might have validity.

I'm of the opposite opinion. There is much more talent in the league top to bottom than 30 years ago. The athletes are bigger, faster, stronger and drawing from a world-wide talent base. 30 years ago, no russians, only defected czechs......and I just look at the talent on 4th lines today around the league today compared to years ago. These guys are phenomenal athletes.  

 

Play, on a night to night basis, is much more intense than when only 4 or 5  teams missed the playoffs. 

 

Adding teams has made the nightly competition much more fierce and meaningful than when standings didn't change after Christmas and teams played for ties on the road. 

It's an interesting analysis.  What wins out?  Massive over-expansion vs. increased pool of talent to choose from?

 

There may be more talented players in the league now, but they are more spread out.  Their addition doesn't necessarily translate to "more exciting" or "better played" hockey.  I think the general level of athleticism has increased for sure among all players, but it was easier to concentrate talent 30 years ago for a variety of reasons.  

 

The true killer is the guaranteed contract, more liberal free agency rules, and the cap.  

 

For the record: I think play on a night to night basis, as the league currently stands, is poor enough as to make the games nearly un-watchable. 

 

At least for me.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Kruppstahl

[Randall Flagg]

I have no problem with the goalie pads staying exactly the way they are. When I watch clips of the days where goalies wore not much more than any other skater, the goals that went in were just ugly. Only changing the pads might change the score a bit, but keeping the play as stifled as it is now while making more goals come in the form of a slow wrist shot on the ice going underneath the shin of a goalie where a pad used to be will look worse to me. They scored plenty of times when they called interference even with large goalie pads. Right now it's not the goalies, it's the fact that every shot gets blocked in the slot, and players being basically held with no consequence, that gives us these 2-1 scores.

[Hoss]

The more I watch of this tournament the more I think that expanding the ice to international size would work. I've heard the concerns about defenses then just packing the middle even more and forcing bad angle shots all the time, but I think the talent and passing would trump that. You pack the middle then you're going to get hit with more cross-ice passes for big chances. And there's so much room that speed will kill in transition.

It won't happen simply because it would be very expensive (not only to install but also long-term with two less rows of seating to sell.

[Weave]

The more I watch of this tournament the more I think that expanding the ice to international size would work. I've heard the concerns about defenses then just packing the middle even more and forcing bad angle shots all the time, but I think the talent and passing would trump that. You pack the middle then you're going to get hit with more cross-ice passes for big chances. And there's so much room that speed will kill in transition.

It won't happen simply because it would be very expensive (not only to install but also long-term with two less rows of seating to sell.

Expanding the ice isnt likely to happen until the next wave of arenas are due throughout the league. But i would support a bigger ice surface.

[darksabre]

Thanks for the clarification. I think you are completely wrong.

 

And even if we are to assume harder shot velocities require the knee pad to be 6" wider than is necessary for safety, all you have to do is go back to wooden sticks, which should have always been maintained the moment #99 and a few others started showing up with aluminum shafts.

 

EDIT: For clarification, I would like to stress that I think goalies can be well protected while reducing the "frontal area" of their equipment substantially.

 

Composite sticks have seen increased shot velocities across the board, but not outside of moderate tolerances.

 

Whatever velocity gains have been achieved on average don't negate "old fashioned" equipment.

If players started shooting 200 mph or something meaningful, that argument might have validity.

 

It's an interesting analysis. What wins out? Massive over-expansion vs. increased pool of talent to choose from?

 

There may be more talented players in the league now, but they are more spread out. Their addition doesn't necessarily translate to "more exciting" or "better played" hockey. I think the general level of athleticism has increased for sure among all players, but it was easier to concentrate talent 30 years ago for a variety of reasons.

 

The true killer is the guaranteed contract, more liberal free agency rules, and the cap.

 

For the record: I think play on a night to night basis, as the league currently stands, is poor enough as to make the games nearly un-watchable.

 

At least for me.

The one thing you're assuming is that the old equipment offered much protection at all. It didn't. Any goalie from back then will tell you that they'd never wear that old gear if they'd have had the modern stuff. They got their kicked. They didn't even practice with the teams it was so dangerous. They were constantly on the cusp of serious injury.

 

Goaltender equipment as it currently exists allows excellent protection and flexibility and the NHLPA will never let the NHL change that, nor will the equipment manufacturers.

[WildCard]

The more I watch of this tournament the more I think that expanding the ice to international size would work. I've heard the concerns about defenses then just packing the middle even more and forcing bad angle shots all the time, but I think the talent and passing would trump that. You pack the middle then you're going to get hit with more cross-ice passes for big chances. And there's so much room that speed will kill in transition.

It won't happen simply because it would be very expensive (not only to install but also long-term with two less rows of seating to sell.

I had the same thought today. The international games are just so much fun to watch. 

[TrueBlueGED]

The one thing you're assuming is that the old equipment offered much protection at all. It didn't. Any goalie from back then will tell you that they'd never wear that old gear if they'd have had the modern stuff. They got their ###### kicked. They didn't even practice with the teams it was so dangerous. They were constantly on the cusp of serious injury.

 

Goaltender equipment as it currently exists allows excellent protection and flexibility and the NHLPA will never let the NHL change that, nor will the equipment manufacturers.

Fine, then let's make the nets larger.

[darksabre]

Fine, then let's make the nets larger.

 

It's really the easiest solution. I don't get why people are so averse to it. 

[LastPommerFan]

It's really the easiest solution. I don't get why people are so averse to it. 

 

If the nets are made larger, the goalie pad dimensions need to be capped where they are right now.

[darksabre]

If the nets are made larger, the goalie pad dimensions need to be capped where they are right now.

 

I don't see that being an issue. Like I said, I think goalie equipment has reached its final form, so to speak. 

[TrueBlueGED]

It's really the easiest solution. I don't get why people are so averse to it.

I was always against it because I think it's a bandaid solution to increase scoring rather than address the real problem, which is lack of offense. But I've given up--The Rangers broke me--I want some goals regardless of how defensive a team plays.

[Eleven]

New idea:  Eliminate the Metro division teams except for Pit and maybe NYI.

[LastPommerFan]

What if they made the primary tiebreaker goals scored?

[Eleven]

What if they made the primary tiebreaker goals scored?

 

Or 3-1-0 Europe / Olympic style?

[dudacek]

What if they made the primary tiebreaker goals scored?

One point in the standings for every goal scored, plus two for a win.

Edited May 17, 2015 by dudacek

[bob_sauve28]

What if they didn't lost the goalie have a catching glove? You know, just two waffle boards. More rebounds, less freezing the puck.

 

Problem solved!

[Eleven]

D4rk:  Serious question.  When you say they can't reduce pad sizes because the butterfly style exists, I assume you mean because the pads, when put together, protect the knees better.  In other words, they can't reduce pad *height*.  Even with the butterfly, is there a reason they can't reduce pad *width*?