The "Holland Tulip"

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Begonia or bologna?

 

I was thinking an improptu pounding of a rival's Begonia with the Bogosian Bologna........so we're all winners today......

[MBHockey13]

This board is like 96% reasonable people and 4% unreasonable crazies.

 

Those crazies post in almost every thread with the same nonsense.

 

I guess it does drive conversation but sometimes it's tiring reading the same old arguments.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This board is like 96% reasonable people and 4% unreasonable crazies.

 

Those crazies post in almost every thread with the same nonsense.

 

I guess it does drive conversation but sometimes it's tiring reading the same old arguments.

 

Worse at driving.......Asians?...or The Elderly?........GO!!!!!!!

[WildCard]

Worse at driving.......Asians?...or The Elderly?........GO!!!!!!!

Camaro drivers 

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Camaro drivers 

:P

[Thorner]

Worse at driving.......Asians?...or The Elderly?........GO!!!!!!!

 

People peeling out of the parking lot all jacked-up after seeing Furious 7.

[Stoner]

This board is like 96% reasonable people and 4% unreasonable crazies.

 

Those crazies post in almost every thread with the same nonsense.

 

I guess it does drive conversation but sometimes it's tiring reading the same old arguments.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but there is an ignore feature. It's not perfect, because when someone replies to someone you're ignoring, you still see it. I guess I don't get complaining about the crazies and then continuing to consume the craziness — and comment on it.

 

Your estimate of the crazy contingent is low. More like 14%.

[wjag]

I'm not trying to be snarky, but there is an ignore feature. It's not perfect, because when someone replies to someone you're ignoring, you still see it. I guess I don't get complaining about the crazies and then continuing to consume the craziness — and comment on it.

 

Your estimate of the crazy contingent is low. More like 14%.

 

 

When quantifying crazies, I think you should always estimate in prime numbers so is it 13% or 17%?

[That Aud Smell]

Vickrey Auction would be more appropriate. There is no speculation in an auction. The final price is the price. 

 

Is Vickrey the sealed one? My guess is that Babcock will be leveraging tentative offers he gets from one team as against other suitors. Which is why a fairly early visit with Buffalo had me wondering whether he wants that big Pegula offer in order to get the money he wants with a more Cup-ready team.

 

Or maybe he's all in for the rebuild and the long road back to greatness. But if that were the case, then why not go all in on TO?

 

There are two issues. How we want things to work and how they actually work. I want the GM to pick the coach. If Tim wants Richardson he should have him. Terry should only be involved if his involvement is needed by the GM. "Hey, Terry, this guy's on the fence. Why don't you whip up some of your famous jambalaya and have Mike and Babs over to the yacht?"

 

But I'm naive to think that's the way it's going to work. If Terry wants Babcock and gets him, I'll give him credit. I won't be unhappy. Just surprised. I don't think it'll be because the Pegulas are so warm. Other owners and owner's wives are warm. The Pegulas are not special snowflakes.

 

Now, if Babcock goes elsewhere, the deal is I am also free to say, well, maybe Babcock didn't like the cut of this owner's jib or the way he's owned the team.

 

Glad to see you're in the second step of recovery, Professor PAngloss.

 

Seriously, though: I think by now we now the deal, the drill. Pegula lervs him the horizontal management structure -- he's going to have a hand in hiring the coach. In fact, the org chart will not place any sort of barrier between Pegula and the coach. 

 

This sort of debate is well and good, if a little familiar.

 

What is not up for debate is how qualitatively superior the Pegulas are to all other owners when it comes to warmth and charm . . . and smelling nice. 

 

 

I want to see the Bogosian Begonia.

 

:w00t:

Edited May 11, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[X. Benedict]

Is Vickrey the sealed one? My guess is that Babcock will be leveraging tentative offers he gets from one team as against other suitors. Which is why a fairly early visit with Buffalo had me wondering whether he wants that big Pegula offer in order to get the money he wants with a more Cup-ready team.

 

Or maybe he's all in for the rebuild and the long road back to greatness. But if that were the case, then why not go all in on TO?

 

 

Glad to see you're in the second step of recovery, Professor PAngloss.

 

Seriously, though: I think by now we now the deal, the drill. Pegula lervs him the horizontal management structure -- he's going to have a hand in hiring the coach. In fact, the org chart will not place any sort of barrier between Pegula and the coach. 

 

This sort of debate is well and good, if a little familiar.

 

What is not up for debate is how qualitatively superior the Pegulas are to all other owners when it comes to warmth and charm . . . and smelling nice. 

 

 

 

:w00t:

 

Vickrey was just a thought. Tulips don't work as they are multiple. What we have here is an art auction with secret bids where Detroit presumably has a chance to match. 

You can't say there is a speculative bubble, he's just one guy and there is no presumed resale value. 

 

(just now thinking about my nearly full set of 1958 Washington Senators Tops baseball cards that my mom threw out when I left home). 

Edited May 11, 2015 by X. Benedict

[That Aud Smell]

Vickrey was just a thought. Tulips don't work as they are multiple. What we have here is an art auction with secret bids where Detroit presumably has a chance to match. 

You can't say there is a speculative bubble, he's just one guy and there is no presumed resale value. 

 

Right. I didn't follow the analogy to the tulip thing -- calling Babcock out as some sort of fool's gold, I guess. 

 

I dunno. The writers/pundits whom I respect the most -- among them, our old man Robi -- say the same thing: Babcock is one of the world's best coaches, and it ain't false or empty praise to say so. The guy is, by all accounts, incredibly bright (from a hockey standpoint) and equally hard-working with his preparations.

 

(just now thinking about my nearly full set of 1958 Washington Senators Tops baseball cards that my mom threw out when I left home). 

 

:cry:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Ken Holland guys......Ken Holland...... a little poetic license to make the thing work.

 

wjag was there

[That Aud Smell]

Ken Holland guys......Ken Holland...... a little poetic license to make the thing work.

 

wjag was there

 

Dude. I got that straight away. I just don't get the theory that's being floated -- that too much hope is being placed in him that he's not all that and a bag of chips, etc.

 

Babcock is an elite coaching talent in the prime of his career.

 

Does that guarantee future results? No. But it is what it is, and he is what he is.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

Babcock is an elite coaching talent in the prime of his career.

 

 

Thank You. We just went through 2 decades of that.....

[qwksndmonster]

Thank You. We just went through 2 decades of that.....

Do you not like Babdick because he coaches with Lindy?

Or because their styles are similar?

 

I don't get it.

[That Aud Smell]

Thank You. We just went through 2 decades of that.....

Do you not like Babdick because he coaches with Lindy?

Or because their styles are similar?

 

I don't get it.

 

Nor I.

 

So, we don't want an indisputably elite coach because we just got rid of one** a couple years ago?

 

** I'm not sure Lindy's on-par with Babcock -- at least in terms of how these guys are regarded in the hockey world.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Do you not like Babdick because he coaches with Lindy?

Or because their styles are similar?

 

I don't get it.

 

I've never said I don't like him. I just said he'd be the best coach they had in 30 years.

 

I just don't see the points I have brought up being brought up everywhere. There is a manic push for 50 something year old guy who has his name on the Cup 1 time, while the benefits of alternative candidates are hardly being discussed. I respect X. so if we end up with DeBoer, I can handle that. I think Blysma is perfect. There are 4 or 5 other guys who are just as successful and hitting or in their prime.

 

In horseracing we'd call Babcock an underlay on his actual ability.....but the fans are buying into it. I've said multiple times I would be glad to have him. At 5-2.....not 1-5......

[qwksndmonster]

I don't know why you're fixating on the whole number of cups thing.  Obviously it's the ultimate prize, but you have to get lucky to win it.  I think Babock's never ending playoff bid is more impressive.

 

I've liked your writing about Bylsma.  He's very low on my list and it's interesting to hear why you think he's the best fit.  Most of your reasons are (correct me if I'm wrong) based on personalities of our players and how you believe they would mesh with our potential new coaches.  Why not leave it at that?  

 

Why does the fact that people want who is perceived as the best available coach bother you enough to create a thread like this?

[That Aud Smell]

I've never said I don't like him. I just said he'd be the best coach they had in 30 years.

 

I just don't see the points I have brought up being brought up everywhere. There is a manic push for 50 something year old guy who has his name on the Cup 1 time, while the benefits of alternative candidates are hardly being discussed. I respect X. so if we end up with DeBoer, I can handle that. I think Blysma is perfect. There are 4 or 5 other guys who are just as successful and hitting or in their prime.

 

In horseracing we'd call Babcock an underlay on his actual ability.....but the fans are buying into it. I've said multiple times I would be glad to have him. At 5-2.....not 1-5......

 

This is more helpful. Far more helpful than the whole tulip thing.

 

As for what it will take to get Babcock (the odds), I am wholly and completely unconcerned over whether the Pegulas will need to over-pay. Someone is going to over-pay for him.

 

I don't know why you're fixating on the whole number of cups thing.  Obviously it's the ultimate prize, but you have to get lucky to win it.  I think Babock's never ending playoff bid is more impressive.

 

I've liked your writing about Bylsma.  He's very low on my list and it's interesting to hear why you think he's the best fit.  Most of your reasons are (correct me if I'm wrong) based on personalities of our players and how you believe they would mesh with our potential new coaches.  Why not leave it at that?  

 

Why does the fact that people want who is perceived as the best available coach bother you enough to create a thread like this?

 

I like the idea of Bylsma quite a bit myself -- I think his strength is teaching (I know they say that about everyone, but I think it is really true of Bylsma), and I also think he'd be a better fit for a squad that still needs to grow quite a bit. I think being somewhat awful for season or two would not suit Babcock as well (or possibly at all).

[dudacek]

How many candidates have cups?

How many cups?

[qwksndmonster]

 

I like the idea of Bylsma quite a bit myself -- I think his strength is teaching (I know they say that about everyone, but I think it is really true of Bylsma), and I also think he'd be a better fit for a squad that still needs to grow quite a bit. I think being somewhat awful for season or two would not suit Babcock as well (or possibly at all).

I tend to fixate on line matchups when I watch hockey, and after watching the Bylsma-coached 2014 USA olympic team I don't think I could ever come around to the idea of him as coach.  It sounds like all the behind the scenes teaching is Bylsma's bread and salt, so that's probably why I have a hard time getting excited about him.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This is more helpful. Far more helpful than the whole tulip thing.

 

As for what it will take to get Babcock (the odds), I am wholly and completely unconcerned over whether the Pegulas will need to over-pay. Someone is going to over-pay for him.

 

 

I like the idea of Bylsma quite a bit myself -- I think his strength is teaching (I know they say that about everyone, but I think it is really true of Bylsma), and I also think he'd be a better fit for a squad that still needs to grow quite a bit. I think being somewhat awful for season or two would not suit Babcock as well (or possibly at all).

 

If you said Babcock, or spin the wheel of Bylsma, McLain, McClellan, Carlyle, Torts, DeBoer, Richardson......I would say Babcock.

 

On who is the best coach in general?....

 

Babcock (5-2), Bylsma (6-1), McClain (8-1), McClellan (5-1), Carlyle (6-1), Torts (5-1), DeBoer (8-1), Richardson (15-1)

 

The Buffalo media and fans toteboard?

 

Babcock (1-5), Everyone else combined (7-2)

 

 

For THIS team....the next 3-5 years? Yes...that is why I have been vocal.

I tend to fixate on line matchups when I watch hockey, and after watching the Bylsma-coached 2014 USA olympic team I don't think I could ever come around to the idea of him as coach.  It sounds like all the behind the scenes teaching is Bylsma's bread and salt, so that's probably why I have a hard time getting excited about him.

 

Seriously though.....did you watch Babcock's 2014 team?

 

You saw Ted Nolan have a system with the Sabres where goalies had stratospheric save percentages compared to their norm. They usually lose, but it was a constant.

 

You saw Ted Nolan come within 2 minutes of knocking Babcock and Canada out of a medal with that same system.

 

You saw 70% of the fanbase wanting to run that half-bred, no system, tank-wrecking, son of a gun right out of town.

 

Yet somehow nobody gives pause?

 

I laid out the reasons for Bylsma over Babcock. I'm glad many understood and even think it is a good option.

[qwksndmonster]

For THIS team....the next 3-5 years? Yes...that is why I have been vocal.

This makes a lot more sense.  The problem that I have with your posts is that they're incredibly suggestive.  It never feels like I'm reading your opinion, it feels like I'm being instructed how to think.

[LGR4GM]

 

You saw Ted Nolan come within 2 minutes of knocking Babcock and Canada out of a medal with that same system.

 

You saw 70% of the fanbase wanting to run that half-bred, no system, tank-wrecking, son of a gun right out of town.

 

 

Two quick things because personally I don't care who the coach is as long as they get results.  

 

1) That system in the Latvia Canada game still worked.  Canada won.  On top of that those Olympics were on international ice surface and Babcock coached that team for a whopping what? 3 weeks?  Yea blame his system for almost losing a game but ignore they won a gold medal.  

 

2) That's racist.  Also having listened to the player locker clean out interviews and subsequent interviews, Nolan's time was up.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This makes a lot more sense.  The problem that I have with your posts is that they're incredibly suggestive.  It never feels like I'm reading your opinion, it feels like I'm being instructed how to think.

 

I guess that is the irony of me being a poor communicator. My biggest reason for being on the board is to NOT let someone tell you how to think.