Roster review #25 Mikhail Grigorenko

[Huckleberry]

20-25 goals is not a whacked-out theory for Griggy's ceiling.  But Datsyuk and Zetterberg are both absolute locks for the HOF.  It is insane to mention their names in a "Grigorenko reminds me of..." conversation.

 

 

I too prefer the optimistic approach, and I have not given up on Griggy.  I just think it sounds crazy to start comparing him to HOFers.

 

I wouldn't dare to compare anyone with HOF, maybe Eichel if he becomes ours, but no one in our system should be compared to any of those.

They all got a shitload to prove.  Just glad we are ammcoming to our senses nowadays.

 

I'm jus glad people putting griggy in the 20 goal range already, if i said that 2 years ago, wich i did i think.  I would be a lonely wolf crying out in the dessert watching the tumbleweed roll by.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Heimdall

[Kruppstahl]

This is one thing that bothers me in sports. I remember Jim Kelly had naysayers and detractors. Every year, this portion of the population hated him and frankly, thought he sucked. Even through the Super Bowl years. And maybe even into Canton. Some people get that mindset and there is nothing that can overturn it. Maybe there is too much pride for people to admit when they're wrong.

 

I would rather take the opposite approach -- give someone the benefit of the doubt until they are verified hopeless. Not that my approach is right, but is a little more optimistic way to go through life.

 

And I can admit when I am wrong -- I used my approach when Leino came to Buffalo. When I finally turned on him, I was very vocal and critical of his lack of performance. But at the end of the day, does the skeptic who hated from Leino from day one a better or smarter person?

 

You can wake up every day and say it's going to rain and eventually you'll be right. I would rather wake up thinking it's going to be a beautiful sunny day today. As long as I don't live in a tropical rain forest, that's my perspective.

Not sure what you are on about in this post.  No offense but you write a lot of off-topic stuff that is not relevant to the topic at hand.

 

As noted, until Grigorenko shows me that he is special or even above average, I don't see a big role for him in the Sabres franchise.  Maybe I am wrong.

[MBHockey13]

This is one thing that bothers me in sports. I remember Jim Kelly had naysayers and detractors. Every year, this portion of the population hated him and frankly, thought he sucked. Even through the Super Bowl years. And maybe even into Canton. Some people get that mindset and there is nothing that can overturn it. Maybe there is too much pride for people to admit when they're wrong.

 

I would rather take the opposite approach -- give someone the benefit of the doubt until they are verified hopeless. Not that my approach is right, but is a little more optimistic way to go through life.

 

And I can admit when I am wrong -- I used my approach when Leino came to Buffalo. When I finally turned on him, I was very vocal and critical of his lack of performance. But at the end of the day, does the skeptic who hated from Leino from day one a better or smarter person?

 

You can wake up every day and say it's going to rain and eventually you'll be right. I would rather wake up thinking it's going to be a beautiful sunny day today. As long as I don't live in a tropical rain forest, that's my perspective.

 

Amen. That is me 100%. I think it's a happier way to live.

[...]

Not sure what you are on about in this post. No offense but you write a lot of off-topic stuff that is not relevant to the topic at hand.

It's pretty clear SFIR is elaborating on why he thinks the way he does about Grigorenko. It's not off topic, far from it. Edited May 7, 2015 by SiZzlEmeIsTEr

[Huckleberry]

This is one thing that bothers me in sports. I remember Jim Kelly had naysayers and detractors. Every year, this portion of the population hated him and frankly, thought he sucked. Even through the Super Bowl years. And maybe even into Canton. Some people get that mindset and there is nothing that can overturn it. Maybe there is too much pride for people to admit when they're wrong.

 

I would rather take the opposite approach -- give someone the benefit of the doubt until they are verified hopeless. Not that my approach is right, but is a little more optimistic way to go through life.

 

And I can admit when I am wrong -- I used my approach when Leino came to Buffalo. When I finally turned on him, I was very vocal and critical of his lack of performance. But at the end of the day, does the skeptic who hated from Leino from day one a better or smarter person?

 

You can wake up every day and say it's going to rain and eventually you'll be right. I would rather wake up thinking it's going to be a beautiful sunny day today. As long as I don't live in a tropical rain forest, that's my perspective.

 

Yup, and my mindset currently still is that I have a hard time believing he won't be a solid 2C in the NHL.   This kid has become the underdog to make it and i want it to happen for the sabres.

Naysayers keep telling us he lacks character , but for me you don't go through what he had and not have it. 

[Doohicksie]

20-25 goals is not a whacked-out theory for Griggy's ceiling.  But Datsyuk and Zetterberg are both absolute locks for the HOF.  It is insane to mention their names in a "Grigorenko reminds me of..." conversation.

 

Why?  People do that all the time on teh intarwebz.  And no, I don't think he will be that 1-2 line center like those guys are, but I think he could have a solid career ahead of him.

 

I've already compared Risto to Nick Lidstrom.  I was in Detroit when Lidstrom came up and watched his early career and I see a lot of the same things in Risto in terms of great positioning, breakout passes and generally making things look smooth and effortless.

 

My point really was that at the point in Datsyuk's and Zetterberg's careers that Grigo is at now, (just breaking into the league), people would have raised an eyebrow to project them out to where they ended up.  As a prospect I think Grigo rates higher than either of those two guys did.

either would suffice as a serviceable center (3rd or 4th line.) I would love to see them challenge for 2nd line center, but if the roster depth chart places them on the 3rd line, I am thrilled with the development of the team. I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping both, but if a deal must be made to bring in a key component, than I would prefer to keep Grigo over Larsson.

I think it's a great problem to have and it may result in Reinhart getting some seasoning in Rochacha while that gets sorted.

 

 

that Ukrainian dude from Texas.

Polish, not Ukranian. And even then, that's several generations back.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

 

Polish, not Ukranian. And even then, that's several generations back.

 

 

Even better.

 

A Slav, like me.

[Doohicksie]

You bet yer dupa.

[bob_sauve28]

Maybe he will be our guy that scores the big playoff goals like that guy for Washington is doing now. Sorry, not looking up his name, its something like Kastermovoski

[LGR4GM]

I want to see Grigorenko's skating improve and then see him with Jack Eichel. 

[Huckleberry]

I want to see Grigorenko's skating improve and then see him with Jack Eichel. 

 

Or Reinhart, Grigorenko needs skilled players around him.

[Patty16]

Or Reinhart, Grigorenko needs skilled players around him.

 

that's a cop out, if you're that good you make your own chances. Or you really aren't a top center.  

[LGR4GM]

Or Reinhart, Grigorenko needs skilled players around him.

I think Grigorenko, given another year will start to be able to generate on his own but when you have multiple guys generating on a line, it makes it hard to shut that line down.

 

that's a cop out, if you're that good you make your own chances. Or you really aren't a top center.  

I think Grigorenko has created chances or at least started doing that this past season.  He's a very intriguing player going forward.

[rsxfirefighter]

that's a cop out, if you're that good you make your own chances. Or you really aren't a top center.  

I disagree...

Would Mogilny have scored 76 goals that season if LaFontaine was not his center? He averaged a goal a game that season (77 games)

 

Or would he stayed closer to his season average of 20-30 goals?

 

A good player can only do so much on their own, but if you surround them with equally good players they can become great.

 

If Grigorenko is making plays and setting up players for goals, then those players start drawing attention away from him which will allow him to get into the shooting lanes.

 

I just feel it was a maturity issue at the beginning of his career and then he got lumped into the dog house.

 

Will be great to see how he performs with a new head coach that will allow him an equal opertunity with another good player or two on his line, instead of trying to work up out of the dog house.

[Patty16]

I disagree...

Would Mogilny have scored 76 goals that season if LaFontaine was not his center? He averaged a goal a game that season (77 games)

 

Or would he stayed closer to his season average of 20-30 goals?

 

A good player can only do so much on their own, but if you surround them with equally good players they can become great.

 

If Grigorenko is making plays and setting up players for goals, then those players start drawing attention away from him which will allow him to get into the shooting lanes.

 

I just feel it was a maturity issue at the beginning of his career and then he got lumped into the dog house.

 

Will be great to see how he performs with a new head coach that will allow him an equal opertunity with another good player or two on his line, instead of trying to work up out of the dog house.

 

Mogilny played wing, so yes wings do play better when they have a HOF center.  so they 16/89 thing really doesn't fit this scenario. 

 

Girgo is a center, and they are generally supposed to make the players around them better.  That's why you hear why it's so important to be strong up the middle of the ice. 

[rsxfirefighter]

Mogilny played wing, so yes wings do play better when they have a HOF center.  so they 16/89 thing really doesn't fit this scenario. 

 

Girgo is a center, and they are generally supposed to make the players around them better.  That's why you hear why it's so important to be strong up the middle of the ice. 

 

I still believe it takes 2 to tango...I think a HOF center is only good without an equally good/great winger.

 

Hopefully Grigo gets a chance with quality Wingers, unlike the Contract Year wanna be's like Stafford...

 

Only then will we truely know if he can be good.

 

Heck, Derek Roy looked like a superstar when he had Vanek on his wing....and also on the 3rd line when there were better talent on the first two lines.

[SabresFanInRochester]

Mogilny played wing, so yes wings do play better when they have a HOF center.  so they 16/89 thing really doesn't fit this scenario. 

 

Girgo is a center, and they are generally supposed to make the players around them better.  That's why you hear why it's so important to be strong up the middle of the ice. 

 

I still believe it takes 2 to tango...I think a HOF center is only good without an equally good/great winger.

 

Hopefully Grigo gets a chance with quality Wingers, unlike the Contract Year wanna be's like Stafford...

 

Only then will we truely know if he can be good.

 

Heck, Derek Roy looked like a superstar when he had Vanek on his wing....and also on the 3rd line when there were better talent on the first two lines.

 

I tend to think you need a support cast, regardless of the title of wing or center. I like your Derek Roy point, but don't forget there was a time when Luke Adam had everybody fooled. It was his support cast. The center position is certainly important because that is typically your playmaker and puck-handler. If you have a winger that does that, then titles are not as relevant.

[Huckleberry]

For me it never was about mental maturity with him though, he just wasn't physically ready for the NHL.

Allthough he did show some flashes of what he could do during games.

[Samson's Flow]

For me it never was about mental maturity with him though, he just wasn't physically ready for the NHL.

Allthough he did show some flashes of what he could do during games.

I think my issue was more mental.

 

He had grown up always being so much better than everyone around him that his overwhelming talent would allow him to be successful. When he got drafted and was thrust into the NHL, he still carried that "I'm more talented than everyone else" mindset, which made him look disengaged on the ice. The last few years I think he is starting to understand that the NHL is a totally different game, and you need to be engaged and focused at all times to get a chance to show your talent. Yes, he grew into his body a bit, but his first few years he sort of expected the puck to come to him whereas last year he was more actively pursuing and making the puck come to him.

[Patty16]

I think my issue was more mental.

 

He had grown up always being so much better than everyone around him that his overwhelming talent would allow him to be successful. When he got drafted and was thrust into the NHL, he still carried that "I'm more talented than everyone else" mindset, which made him look disengaged on the ice. The last few years I think he is starting to understand that the NHL is a totally different game, and you need to be engaged and focused at all times to get a chance to show your talent. Yes, he grew into his body a bit, but his first few years he sort of expected the puck to come to him whereas last year he was more actively pursuing and making the puck come to him.

 

 

well said. 

 

I think what will certianly help his development is the arrival of a top center so he won't be pressured in to thinking he needs to be a top line guy. He still needs some physical maturity and strengthening to be able to play regularly at this level. 

 

He def has the hands and vision, but without some significant improvement in his skating and strength, and/or playing with awesome wingers he's not gonna be a top 6 player

[Huckleberry]

he gained 20kgm in muscles since we drafted him, i don't think he needs to add more.

[woods-racer]

he gained 20kgm in muscles since we drafted him, i don't think he needs to add more.

 

If my math is correct, 20 kg = 44 lbs. He is currently listed at 209 lbs (95kg). I don't think he came into the Sabres organization at 160 lbs (73 kg).

 

But if your point is that he is putting on muscle and definitely working with the training staff to get his body more NHL ready, I would agree with you.

[qwksndmonster]

that's a cop out, if you're that good you make your own chances. Or you really aren't a top center.  

Nobody called Grigorenko a "top center."  If you're a 21 year old mid 1st rounder you absolutely need talented line mates if you're going to have success as a scoring line center.

Edited May 8, 2015 by qwksndmonster

[Huckleberry]

If my math is correct, 20 kg = 44 lbs. He is currently listed at 209 lbs (95kg). I don't think he came into the Sabres organization at 160 lbs (73 kg).

 

But if your point is that he is putting on muscle and definitely working with the training staff to get his body more NHL ready, I would agree with you.

 

Yeah probably was like 20lbs :p

[dudacek]

Contract talks have opened between Grigo and the Avs, with the Grigo camp saying the NHL is preferred over KHL options:

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/col150706.html