Reflecting: Tank Wars

[WildCard]

The circumstantial evidence is fairly damning against a vehement anti tanker who is also staunchly far right on the political spectrum.

Well now I wanna know

[dudacek]

Well now I wanna know

Yeah, I stay away from the politics thread.

You Muricans carry guns.

[Claude_Verret]

I don't mind revealing my guess.  His last post: "I hope McDavid and Eichel bust"

 

I could be wrong, and I apologize to him if I am, but my best guess is:

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/user/2314-thematrix31/

[Stoner]

i wish i could have read the article, sounds like a hoot 

It really wasn't. It was pretty dull and unreadable. Nothing about the story was controversial. The controversy (apparently; I haven't sliced and diced it) is that Yahoo published someone without vetting for political correctness. In Schopp's case, I imagine his problem is that a prominent outlet published an anti-tank piece, and that a mere peasant with an IQ less than his was granted such an opportunity.

I don't mind revealing my guess.  His last post: "I hope McDavid and Eichel bust"

 

I could be wrong, and I apologize to him if I am, but my best guess is:

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/user/2314-thematrix31/

I was thinking more along the lines of a more recent new poster.

[3putt]

Knock it off all of you. This is Tokyo Rose all over again. Stand togethor. A house divided....

[Claude_Verret]

Of course you've got the same "31" at the end of the SS handle and twitter handle....

[TheMatrix31]

 

I stand by everything I said. Thanks for proving my points. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by TheMatrix31

[LGR4GM]

The article detailed how this person became a Sabres in 2008 and really enjoyed watching Vanek and Miller. It then goes into a log standing discussion about how Buffalo Sports has lost integrity after the tank and they will no longer be a Sabres fan because they aren't deserving of that persons loyalty.  That's the general summary I can provide. 

 

 

I stand by everything I said. Thanks for proving my points. 

This comes with a warning, if you did post the article here, you will be torn apart by some members of the board.  That said, would you be willing to post some or all of it for those who did not read it keeping in mind I am asking you to basically open yourself up to a ton of attacks.  I read it and I disagreed with most of what you said but since I was on the tank before there was a tank it is understandable.  

Edited April 16, 2015 by LGR4GM

[kas23]

I'm not sure if there has ever been a tank that was so overt as the tank we just witnessed.

There really wasn't anything "overt" about this "tank". You think Arizona playing light out against San Jose was part of the "tank"? You think Nolan riding Lindback nightly, who posted a 0.924 save average since being traded, was congruent with a "tank"?

[Claude_Verret]

Yes, please post it here for those who didn't get a chance to read it.   :angel:

 

edit: btw Mike Schopp I think said it best..

 

Mike Schopp @Schopptalk · 8h8 hours ago

If you missed every terrible point about the #Sabres made in the last six months, here's all of them: @wyshynski http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/how-buffalo-s-connor-mcdavid-tank-killed-my-passion-for-sabres-hockey-145050744.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw … …

Edited April 16, 2015 by Claude_Verret

[TheMatrix31]

If you wanted to read it, maybe you people shouldn't have gone dumpster-diving and gotten it pulled from the website it was published on. 

 

But again, thanks for proving my points.

Edited April 16, 2015 by TheMatrix31

[Fire Eater]

Here's the article.  I didn't write it.  I found it on a twitter feed ( I kinda hope this person becomes a Leafs fan.

 

 

 

I wasn't around for "No Goal, " but I knew that the Sabres were fo me.

I wasn't around for the 2006 run to the Eastern Conference Finals, but I knew that the Sabres were for me.

I wasn't around for July 1, 2007, but I knew that the Sabres were for me.

You see, I've felt my fair share of sports pain. I'm a Phoenix Suns, Houston Texans, and Atlanta Braves fan, too. I know all too well about getting close and falling flat year after year. I know all too well about referee screwjobs. I know all too well about injuries derailing teams destined for championship glory. I know all too well about having to let beloved players go. I know.
What I also know is that I fell in love with those teams because of the way they did things as an organization. Class, honor, respect, pride, dignity. They all did things the right way. I knew I could take pride in the team no matter what, regardless of any season result. I found a lot of myself in the teams I rooted for. It's a big reason why I fell in love with the Sabres. It wasn't until I grew so frustrated with the direction in which the NBA was heading that I decided to become a full-time hockey fan. I needed to fill the void that was left by the corrupted, manufactured NBA.

I had been a very casual hockey fan my entire life. I wanted a northern team that didn't have much success but still had a great, intelligent, energetic fanbase. Starting around 2008 or so, I started watching Sabres games because I used to use them in old hockey games and took notice of Ryan Miller and Thomas Vanek. Then, lifelong Sabres fan and billionaire Terry Pegula bought the team. What a dream that was. A guy who had all the resources in the world and was a lifelong fan of the team? Stanley Cup contention was not far off. I started to feel connected with the team and relished rivalries with Boston and Philadelphia, even staying home on Easter Sunday 2011 to watch Ville Leino stab millions of Sabres fans in the heart with his overtime killer. These are the things that create hockey fans for life. I found myself wishing that I started watching hockey earlier in my life so that I'd know as much about it as I do other sports.

Since then, the Sabres have fallen from grace. What was deemed "Hockey Heaven" has been dragged to the depths of Hockey Hell. A dark, desolate dungeon of despair where the Sabres and their fans would seemingly languish in for all of eternity. Alas the emergence of Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel as "generational talent" gave the Sabres and other despondent franchises hope. A light at the end of the tunnel. The Sabres management decided they would strip the team down and lose on purpose in a not-so-inconspicuous attempt to secure one of those two and change the course of their franchise forever.

I hate the idea of tanking. I hate the word "tank." Mostly because it's been used in recent years to describe sports teams that are in transition. There's a difference between "tanking" and teams merely in transition and shifting or building assets. I saw it with my Suns, and in 2013-14 they were expected to win 20 games and ended up winning 48 and missing the playoffs by one game. Not once did appease calls to lose on purpose. The Texans went 2-14 in 2013 and instead of expecting to just "be bad anyway" they fought back with new coaching and went 9-7 in 2014 with their oh-so-special #1 pick not even contributing. The word "tanking" is for teams that lose on purpose and the Buffalo Sabres, Arizona Coyotes, and Edmonton Oilers have done that throughout the 2014-15 NHL season. It's despicable.

The problem is that Buffalo Sports has a losing culture. You cannot foster a winning culture by losing on purpose. There's this sentiment that has spread through the sports world in recent years like a cancer that "if you ain't first, you're last." Unfortunately, that sentiment is now more than just a line in a crappy Will Ferrell movie. It's the hypnotic chant of all downtrodden franchises and their fanbases. Ask the Kings from a couple years ago if they would have rather missed the playoffs instead of sneaking in as a #8. Because they established a winning culture, missing the playoffs this year is unthinkable to Kings fans I know. Ask the Flyers and Canadiens from a couple years ago if they would have rather missed the playoffs instead of both going on miracle runs to the Eastern Conference Finals. Ask the Oilers if years and years of high draft picks means anything without the management and scouting to back it up. You can't win if you're not in. People are worried about the "Ninth Place Treadmill" but here I am worrying about the "Edmonton Treadmill." Losers should never be rewarded for losing, and most times, they're not.

I understand that "generational talent" means a lot in sports. Across all sports, single players have helped shift their team's future. For every Hall-of-Famer, though, there's quite a few busts. The point is, the draft is a crapshoot and will always be a crapshoot no matter what. If you have proper management and scouting, you will be able to identify players no matter your draft slot. Some of the best franchises in sports have done an exemplary job drafting late and developing talent. A team with good management and scouting doesn't require #1 picks to succeed. If draft picks were the cure to every sports franchise's ills, perpetual laughing stocks would be perpetual world champions. If Tim Murray was as great as Sabres fans seem to think he is, he wouldn't need to lose on purpose to procure a draft pick to get a star. To base your franchise's entire future on losing on purpose just to get a guy who hasn't proven it on the professional level is foolish at best and repulsive at worst. I've simply seen too many horror stories to ever put *that* level of faith into the draft.

Not only are fans cheering this on, but so are members of the media. Buffalo sports media is rife with radio hosts and social media writers that openly root for the team to lose on purpose. And it's not confined to local media. National sports writers have embraced this and encourage it constantly. It's beyond a joke at this point. And when fans see their thought leaders confirming this "strategy," all it does is perpetuate the notion that it's a good idea. Was there any other time in sports history where blatant losing on purpose would be welcomed and encouraged and joked about like this? If the Rangers or Canucks or Leafs were blatantly losing on purpose, would it be so widely cheered? Likely not. It's shameful. It's ruined the integrity of the sport. Just like with Tim Donaghy and other corrupt officials in basketball. Once you start doubting the legitimacy of what you're watching, it's all over.

I frequent a very popular Sabres message board and what used to be a fountain of knowledge for me and a way to connect with longtime Sabres fans is now an insufferable cesspool of cultists marching to that single, solitary drumbeat. Openly rooting for the team to lose, berating anyone who expresses even the slightest morsel of happiness at a win, all the while clamoring for growth from the team. What exactly do you think will grow on a team that loses on purpose? How exactly do you plan on dispelling years and decades of losing Buffalo sports culture by losing on purpose? How exactly do you cultivate players like Zemgus Girgensons, Rasmus Ristolainen, Nikita Zadorov and others by doing this? Players across the league who might have decided to sign in Buffalo may have taken fan passion into account along with the loads of cash we'd throw at them, but why would anyone want to play for such ingrates who would start rooting for the other team at the drop of a hat? What an embarrassment. I was castigated beyond belief for rooting for Buffalo to beat Boston a couple weeks back because if we're going to be losing on purpose, I at least wanted to beat our most hated rivals and help prevent them from making the playoffs too. If I have to put up with losing on purpose, I want Boston to lose too.

I am absolutely repulsed to call myself a Sabres fan. Why would I want to be associated with a team that's doing this? I'm a new hockey fan and these last couple years have done nothing to encourage me to immerse myself further with the Sabres. I've dealt with losing teams before but I can't stomach this. Conform or be cast out.

"How dare you cheer for the team you chose to root for?"
"Don't you know that losing now means winning later?"
"McEichel!"

After the last couple weeks with Sabres fans at First Niagara straight up cheering opposing teams' goals, I reached a breaking point. What's happening with the Sabres goes against everything I stand for but it would be cheap to just stop rooting for them and root for others. I look on at teams like the Flames, Jets Senators and Wild who didn't lay down and were absolutely killing themselves just to make the playoffs this year. They play fast and hungry and never, ever stopped. They built on what they had and that's admirable as hell. And next year they'll keep building. I find myself rooting for anything that pisses Sabres fans off at this point. From wins to ruin lotto chances to rooting for one of (or both) McDavid and Eichel to bust just to teach the draft fetishists a lesson. Nothing against those players, of course. It's not their fault. Even if one of them came to Buffalo, I would feel guilty knowing how the team got them. I wouldn't feel right rooting for them. I know the vast majority of others don't feel the way I do as winning is the only thing. To me, winning means nothing when the team you root for and fans you root with are detestable in every way.

The team last year was unbearable.

This year, it's even worse. This franchise is unwatchable. For a person trying to develop and hone his love for the game, these last couple years have been completely detrimental to my own development and I'm sick of it. Give me a chance to fall---and stay----in love. If you're going to be bad, at least be entertaining. We haven't been. The team is downright abhorrent. Nothing will develop the players more than meaningful hockey. The goal for any hockey team is Stanley Cups, but we spend six months of our year watching a team night-in, night-out so we should be entertained and thrilled too. If that means a playoff chase that falls short, okay. If that means a first round exit, that's okay too. Just build. Languishing and hoping draft picks pan out is not building, no matter what anyone says. It's throwing a bunch of crap together hoping that it will all click at once and suddenly you won't be bad anymore.


If you're as bad as the Sabres are, one player will not change your fortunes. One player will not make you go from worst to first. So when does it stop? Do the Sabres fans want to lose on purpose next year too because "McEichel won't be able to do it alone!"? Just throw away another year of players' careers and people's hard-earned money and valuable time watching this "product"? This is the cycle you risk entering when you start down this path. The problem with the NBA2K/Maddenification of sports is that it's never enough. Fans say, "We did it the other way, so let's try this way now!" But what if that doesn't work? Then you've squandered years only to find yourself in the same place. You've stunted the development of what good prospects the Sabres may have to work with. You've wasted what precious few years of Rick Jeanneret we have left. You've pissed away all the goodwill that your fans, including new ones such as myself have built for you. Some gamble.

You have made fans comfortably numb.

This entire sham of an arrangement has zapped much of my desire for the sport. I find myself barely even watching other games this season and not getting nearly as much pleasure out of them as I did through even last year's playoffs. It's hard to give a damn when you've been beaten into indifference. I know the Sabres and their fans will read this and say that losing a fan like me is no big deal. Most teams that do this get criticized for losing on purpose but once the star comes, the pathetic means by which they acquired that star are forgotten. They won't care and I don't blame them. After all, how many bandwagon fans will be gained once The Savior shows his face? I think it's a very big deal, though. It's not often that hockey gets a brand new fan that's not a kid and quite frankly, the sport needs to draw more people in if it ever hopes to gain true relevance in the landscape of American sports. I became a hockey fan because I was hungry for something else after years of being inundated with the garbage associated with basketball. I wanted to become a Sabres fan. I didn't just jump on a bandwagon due to a hot playoff run or a potential superstar.

That interest? Faded.

That passion? Gone.

It's turned into anger and resentment. I feel like I've gotten a raw deal, and I'm closer than I have ever been to finding a new hockey home, if I even want to keep watching at all.

[Claude_Verret]

and here we go....

[LGR4GM]

If you wanted to read it, maybe you people shouldn't have gone dumpster-diving and gotten it pulled from the website it was published on. 

 

But again, thanks for proving my points.

I actually have the entire article.  I thought maybe you might want to post it and comment on it since you originally wrote it.

[TheMatrix31]

I actually have the entire article.  I thought maybe you might want to post it and comment on it since you originally wrote it.

 

And I'm the creep and the weirdo, lol.

 

I'm glad it's here for you to read. Maybe people will see that inciting the Perpetual Outrage Brigade, while predictable, was probably unwarranted given the content. 

 

But again, thanks for proving my points.

Edited April 16, 2015 by TheMatrix31

[LGR4GM]

Edit: Well never mind then.  I was actually going to let sleeping dogs lie so they say... just remember kids, I started the thread and I will lock or delete it as necessary.  

And I'm the creep and the weirdo, lol.

 

I'm glad it's here for you to read. Maybe people will see that inciting the Perpetual Outrage Brigade, while predictable, was probably unwarranted given the content. 

 

But again, thanks for proving my points.

I was not trying to creep.  I looked for it shortly after it was taken down because I wanted to re-read it.  

[dudacek]

Piece was too long and not particularly provocative.

Moving on....

[Johnny DangerFace]

the article is so wrong, pointless, and ill-informed....it is obvious the person knows they are wrong and are trolling.  

 

If the blatant bandwagon-ing wasn't a tipoff

Edited April 16, 2015 by Vlad Dangerslakov

[darksabre]

Man this is really going to change my opinion of TheMatrix31 as a post--ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[thesportsbuff]

well the article wasn't as bad as i hoped but all i have to say to any of that is who cares? who cares if other fans disagree with your point of view, or vice versa? don't let it ruin your day. the fans don't make the decisions, and the players aren't losing on purpose.

 

My only problem is with this statement: "If you're as bad as the Sabres are, one player will not change your fortunes."

 

Because 1. Yes, a McDavid/Eichel WILL (or, I should say "CAN") change your fortune -- even if indirectly. Whether a free agent decides to sign here to have a chance to play with "the next Crosby", or Murray decides to part with other young assets in exchange for a already-established goal scorer as a result of drafting a franchise center, or a high profile coach decides to come here to instill his wisdom upon one of the best young players in the game... So yeah, "McEichel" won't be out there single-handedly winning us games (although he will help), but it certainly expedites the rebuild, which eventually leads to us changing our fortunes. 

 

And 2. If the Sabres are losing on purpose, or even built to lose, then you can't really use that measuring stick -- "If you're as bad as the Sabres." I mean according to your own viewpoint, even the Sabres aren't "as bad as the Sabres." Because they were losing on purpose, right? 

 

Tank-shaming has gone on all season from people in the media. Jeremy White nailed it some time ago though -- it's all jealousy. Last year's team was worse, and virtually nobody mentioned "tanking." 

[smj]

Uh, didn't anybody notice the Miami Heat kept all of their starters out of the last game in an attempt to improve draft position and the Knicks have not competed at their best to winning the second best odds at the number one pick?  Stop saying the Sabres tanked because the coach and team kept giving a full effort!  Frankly, there are tons of examples of teams that didn't compete on purpose.  All the Sabres did was make some moves to rebuild after it became clear winning this season wasn't possible (after 0-for-January).  Sure they expected this year might be another non-playoff year while the younger players developed but the Sabres didn't tank anything!

[bunomatic]

There really wasn't anything "overt" about this "tank". You think Arizona playing light out against San Jose was part of the "tank"? You think Nolan riding Lindback nightly, who posted a 0.924 save average since being traded, was congruent with a "tank"?

So you're saying there was no tank ? We've been over this ad naseum but the players and coaches don't tank. Management does . The overt part I was talking about was the social media aspect of the fans experience which was heads and shoulders above that of the Pens fans during their  ' TANK ' simply because the social media experience at that time wasn't as extensive nor ingrained into popular culture as it is at this time.

[TrueBlueGED]

and here we go....

 

Congrats on getting the poster right. Who would've thought somebody who makes terrible posts also writes terrible articles? 

[darksabre]

Congrats on getting the poster right. Who would've thought somebody who makes terrible posts also writes terrible articles? 

 

Who would've thought that a poster who posts articles no one wants to read wouldn't want to post an article that people do want to read?

[SwampD]

And I'm the creep and the weirdo, lol.

 

I'm glad it's here for you to read. Maybe people will see that inciting the Perpetual Outrage Brigade, while predictable, was probably unwarranted given the content. 

 

But again, thanks for proving my points.

I liked it. I don't know if you are a creep or a weirdo, and don't really care. I would assume that since you are on SS, like the rest of us, you are both. I saw nothing in there that should have caused it to be removed.

 

I will say that while I only half agree with your position (I don't find anything morally wrong with a tank, I just didn't want to waste 3 years my viewership doing it), I have found the coverage by WGR and the tank fanbois calling in to the station to be creepy and weird. I mean it. There has been a Stepford Wives quality to them all.

 

Thankfully, this will all be over soon.

 

And I have no problem cheering for McDavid or Eichel.