Nolan releases statement thanking everyone for his opportunity...except Murray.

[qwksndmonster]

I've seen thus stated several times here. Where is the evidence of it? (Circumstantial or other)

 

He played Smith almost every game after Dubnyk was traded. He played OEL a LOT. He played his top lines (what they were, he didn't have a lot to work with) consistently. What could he have done to get more out of that injury & trade depleted bunch?

They lost like 27 in a row.  There's no way he wasn't in on it.

 

(in other words, you got me there and I'm copping out)

Edited April 15, 2015 by qwksndmonster

[WildCard]

They lost like 27 in a row.  There's no way he wasn't in on it.

Well to be fair so did the Leafs

 

Edit: Though I think it's pretty clear Nolan and whoever-the-hell-coached-the-Leafs are much worse coaches than Tippet, so for Tippet to do so poorly might raise some concerns

Edited April 15, 2015 by WildCard

[beerme1]

Murray felt this team had enough talent to not finish in last place when the season started.  After a 13-16-2 start, many agreed.

 

If the season had gone in the direction that he envisioned, Murray admitted that he would have been open to extending contract talks to upcoming FA instead of trading them.

 

Once he saw that the team wasn't going anywhere but down is when he started selling the farm.  Whether you believe him or not is another story, but it kinda makes sense.

 

I sensed through the press conference that although Murray felt Nolan had the right to punish players a certain way it seemed he wasn't 100% on board with Nolan's ways.  But Murray let Nolan push the players buttons how he felt they should be pushed, yet he held him accountable with the result.  Obviously Murray felt Nolans ways didn't work.

 

Furthermore it's obvious Murray felt young players weren't being developed as he had hoped. We all know player development is huge for Murray.

 

With everything being said, due to the recent strong play of the team at seasons end.....Murray STILL went into the players meetings with an open mind with no preconceived notion on whether Nolan should be fired or not.  It was after the player meetings that he made the decision. Hence the hastily called news conference.  After a GM meets with his veteran team leaders and comes up with the conclusion to fire the coach, something was said in those meetings that swayed him toward that decision.

 

Many of the Sabres players after the season ended said in the media that Nolan was a nice guy, but I didn't see anyone stick their flag in the sand and say Nolan needs to stay on.  No one has come forward and said Nolan's firing was total BS.  I thought that was interesting.

 

 

What a great post! Clarity that most people aren't seeing. Good job :beer:

[Doohicksie]

I don't understand your "we" comment. As I stated earlier I don't have a problem with Nolan getting canned. It was inevitable the day he signed the conract. My problem is Murray acting as if Nolan didn't do his job. Nolan did exactly what Murray knew he would do. For Murray to act like Nolan didn't live up to expectations is ludicrous.

 

I'm with you 123% except for the part where you say, "Murray acting as if Nolan didn't do his job."  I wouldn't say that at all.  His job was to coach the hardest working worst team in hockey and he did exactly that, and exceeded that by actually improving the culture of the team in the midst of an awful season. Unfortunately for Nolan, the job description has changed.  It now includes, winning, playoffs, that sort of thing.  Murray thinks he can do better than Nolan and now that the season is over didn't see any reason to keep Nolan around.  The sentimental side of me feels bad for Nolan; I was hoping he'd get a chance to coach a Sabres team with more talent.  GMTM doesn't have a sentimental bone in his body though, so in his mind there's no reason to keep Nolan on.

 

The fact that he's already fired Nolan tells me two things:

1. The rebuild is on track, perhaps even ahead of schedule.

2. Murray has a good idea of who he wants next coach to be (probably a short list) and is confident that there are enough Pegulabucks to make it happen.

 

Great things are afoot.

[TrueBlueGED]

I've seen thus stated several times here. Where is the evidence of it? (Circumstantial or other)

 

He played Smith almost every game after Dubnyk was traded. He played OEL a LOT. He played his top lines (what they were, he didn't have a lot to work with) consistently. What could he have done to get more out of that injury & trade depleted bunch?

 

He also played Shane Doan a lot :p

 

As for actual evidence, Maloney said during some interview that he had talked with Tippett and he was fully on board with the direction of the team. I doubt that means he was in on the tank, so to speak, but it's enough for me to joke about it being true :)

[MattPie]

I am not going strictly on the press conference. Basically just the fact you fired a guy for finishing 30th when everyone and their brother knew that was the goal. He can say whatever he wants that they didn't expect to finish last but he is full of shizit. Didn't we host a freaking Erie game? The guy basically admitted to McDavid wet dreams.

 

The early season start was not what he expected. Didn't he himself say during that stretch that he didn't expect it to last and that eventually the weighted numbers of SOG, PP%, etc. would eventually level out?

 

I just think the guy contradicts himself.

 

What's your reason for thinking this? It doesn't seem like anyone has said this. There's a whole host of reasons you fire a coach (dejennerett provided a very nice post), only one of which is "the team finished 30th".

[bunomatic]

What's your reason for thinking this? It doesn't seem like anyone has said this. There's a whole host of reasons you fire a coach (dejennerett provided a very nice post), only one of which is "the team finished 30th".

With the roster Murray gave him he should have finished 31st.  :blink:

[dejeanneret]

With the roster Murray gave him he should have finished 31st.  :blink:

I believe Murray when he says he felt this team had enough talent to not be the worst team in the league when the season started.

 

When they were 13-16-2 by mid December he was right.  After going 3-20-1 over the next eight weeks is when he pulled the Kane trade.  That's when Murray bailed on the season.

 

Gotta admit, that one's on Nolan.

[Andrew Amerk]

Murray is a snake trying to take shortcuts.

[bunomatic]

I believe Murray when he says he felt this team had enough talent to not be the worst team in the league when the season started.

 

When they were 13-16-2 by mid December he was right.  After going 3-20-1 over the next eight weeks is when he pulled the Kane trade.  That's when Murray bailed on the season.

 

Gotta admit, that one's on Nolan.

I respect your opinion. Mine is that the goal was 30th from the beginning.

[dejeanneret]

Murray is a snake trying to take shortcuts.

If your referring to making moves in order to put a winning product on the ice faster, I'm on board.

[Andrew Amerk]

If your referring to making moves in order to put a winning product on the ice faster, I'm on board.

No.

[X. Benedict]

I am not going strictly on the press conference. Basically just the fact you fired a guy for finishing 30th when everyone and their brother knew that was the goal. He can say whatever he wants that they didn't expect to finish last but he is full of shizit. Didn't we host a freaking Erie game? The guy basically admitted to McDavid wet dreams.

 

The early season start was not what he expected. Didn't he himself say during that stretch that he didn't expect it to last and that eventually the weighted numbers of SOG, PP%, etc. would eventually level out?

 

I just think the guy contradicts himself.

 

This was never about blaming Nolan for his win and loss record.  Everyone expected a poor record. (somewhere between 30-25). 

 

The problem with Nolan was his commitment to the defensive zone collapse. The defensive zone collapse is Nolan's brand of Hockey. 

Nolan's brand of hockey means no speed from the back end to the forwards, because there was no speed you almost always saw the cross ice pass through the neutral zone in transition, you might win the offensive zone, but you are almost never going to score  because you can't attack the net with numbers. 

 

So you have a bunch of young thoroughbreds. Wouldn't it have been a much more entertaining brand of hockey to have let these kids loose, and let them get up ice ....now the team might have lost by wider margins at times, but there would have been a greater commitment to generating speed and offense especially from the back end and in transition.  (This was Ottawa's development model with Paul MaClean....and man was it a blast to watch.) 

 

So here it goes with the choice. Choose A or B

 

A) Keep Nolan's System and an entire team tethered to its own  goalpost with the Zone Collapse  losing games 3-2.

B) Open up the hockey and play a system that better trains your thoroughbreds for the future but losing games 5-4 

 

Either way the record might have been the same but I'm pretty sure Murray wanted B. 

 

That's what I see. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by X. Benedict

[sicknfla]

I believe Murray when he says he felt this team had enough talent to not be the worst team in the league when the season started.

 

When they were 13-16-2 by mid December he was right. After going 3-20-1 over the next eight weeks is when he pulled the Kane trade. That's when Murray bailed on the season.

 

Gotta admit, that one's on Nolan.

When this team was 13-16-2 Murray was sharting himself. Don't let him try to tell you otherwise. In his own words he said he could very easily put together a roster to compete for a playoff spot, however, they wanted more than that. Last summer he was not trying to put together a team to compete for a playoff spot. So if the playoffs are not your goal and either is 30th then what is? 27th? Come on. This guy is playing people for fools.

 

I get he can't openly say they were trying to be 30th. He just needs to keep his yapper shut and stop trying to tell people that he pulled the plug on the season AFTER the January swoon. That is garbage.

Edited April 15, 2015 by sicknfla

[nucci]

When this team was 13-16-2 Murray was sharting himself. Don't let him try to tell you otherwise. In his own words he said he could very easily put together a roster to compete for a playoff spot, however, they wanted more than that. Last summer he was not trying to put together a team to compete for a playoff spot. So if the playoffs are not your goal and either is 30th then what is? 27th? Come on. This guy is playing people for fools.

 

I get he can't openly say they were trying to be 30th. He just needs to keep his yapper shut and stop trying to tell people that he pulled the plug on the season AFTER the January swoon. That is garbage.

Did he say this?

[respk]

According to WGR550

 

http://www.wgr550.com/Nolan-has-a-statement/21361796

 

“I would like to take this opportunity to thank Kim and Terry Pegula, Pat Lafontaine, my coaches and the Sabres management, players, medical, training, arena and public relations staff for all of their support over the past two seasons. Above all, I want to thank the fans and the beautiful people of Buffalo!   THANK YOU BUFFALO!!!  Yours in spirit, Ted.”

 

Hmmm...If Teddy wants another NHL job its wise of him to play cool on this one.  But you know he is burning inside right now and wants to publicly rip Murray.

 

Pretty telling (but not surprising) that he mentions LaFontaine, but no Murray.   Wasn't Murray the one that offered him the 3 year deal and changed his title from interim to full time after LaFontaine left???   Interesting.

 

I don't think this will be the end, nor end well when its all said and done.  I think the truth will come out at some point about what really happened this year between Murray and Nolan. The question is when.

 

Bottom line, Murray said he entered player interviews with an open mind about Nolan's status.  Although he deflected blame on the players, its obvious what he got out of the interviews was the need for a change.  That's more on the players and less on Murray.

 

And with Gorges article in Buffalo News that outlined how some players didn't come in to work with a professional attitude, sounds to me like he was one of the guys that felt a change was needed.

Murray isn't "Sabres management"?

[shrader]

He also played Shane Doan a lot :P

 

As for actual evidence, Maloney said during some interview that he had talked with Tippett and he was fully on board with the direction of the team. I doubt that means he was in on the tank, so to speak, but it's enough for me to joke about it being true :)

 

I don't know if it is a popular opinion around here or not, but I have absolutely no problem with what Arizona did.  They got a really good return in the deals they made.  They're going to have a very good group of prospects which they can use to make something happen, even if they fall out of the #2 slot in the draft. 

 

And speaking of that team, I can't be the only one who regularly catches himself typing "Phoenix" before changing it.

[Taro T]

They lost like 27 in a row.  There's no way he wasn't in on it.

 

(in other words, you got me there and I'm copping out)

:lol: Fair enough.

 

 

 

 

He also played Shane Doan a lot :P

 

As for actual evidence, Maloney said during some interview that he had talked with Tippett and he was fully on board with the direction of the team. I doubt that means he was in on the tank, so to speak, but it's enough for me to joke about it being true :)

Also fair enough. But several times it's been posted here, it didn't come across as joking and I was curious of the source (if any beyond speculation).

 

And (as you already know, this isn't directed at you) Maloney stating that Tippett was "on board with the direction" can run a WIDE range of meanings anywhere from tanking=cool (extremely unlikely) to 'we're gonna tear it down and rebuild with kids, please don't quit mid-season; I'll never get a reasonable hire right now and my bosses will owe Glendale even MORE money than this debacle is shaping up to cost them.' ;)

 

And, I'd expect the later is far closer to where Tippett was than the former. That look of 'd*mn, I need another Zantac' everytime the Yotes gave up a late goal looked too real to be faked.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Taro T

[Doohicksie]

Murray is a snake trying to take shortcuts.

 

I see him as an organized GM with a plan and he's executing the plan.  He has a longer range picture in mind.  Darcy won individual trades but couldn't put a team together.  I think Murray is more about getting the right pieces to build the team and not so much about winning individual trades.  If getting the #1 or 2 draft pick when those two players are supposed to be lights out good is shortcutting, then maybe he's doing that, but it's hard to ignore the value of those players when you can put yourself in a position to guarantee of one them.

[X. Benedict]

Murray is a snake trying to take shortcuts.

 

A short cut would be trying to buy a team through free agency.

 

We spent the last 3 years NOT doing that. 

[Doohicksie]

Come on. This guy is playing people for fools.

 

I get he can't openly say they were trying to be 30th. He just needs to keep his yapper shut and stop trying to tell people that he pulled the plug on the season AFTER the January swoon. That is garbage.

 

I think that's mostly the yammering on the board and not so much what Murray said.  He went for long periods this year where he said virtually nothing; I think a lot of the perception lies in words others put into his mouth.

A short cut would be trying to buy a team through free agency.

 

We spent the last 3 years NOT doing that. 

 

Ah, the New York Rangers model.

And speaking of that team, I can't be the only one who regularly catches himself typing "Phoenix" before changing it.

 

If I type out Phoenix, I leave it.  You know who I'm talking about.

 

If they moved the team to Tucson and wanted to keep some following from Phoenix, then change the name to Arizona Coyotes.  But moving into a suburb doesn't justify the name change to me.  The arena is about 15 miles from downtown Phoenix.  That'd be like renaming the Bills when they moved to Orchard Park.

[sicknfla]

I think that's mostly the yammering on the board and not so much what Murray said. He went for long periods this year where he said virtually nothing; I think a lot of the perception lies in words others put into his mouth.

 

 

 

That is a good point because most of what I get in regards to the team comes from here. Like most of the out of towners we don't listen to all the radio interviews, talk shows (probably a good thing), etc.

 

Sometimes our views of what is really being said and what is insinuated can get jaded in here.

 

I am still in the give Murray the benefit of the doubt stage but it is go time. Get your coach, make the easy draft pick, and then let's play hockey - to win!!

[nucci]

That is a good point because most of what I get in regards to the team comes from here. Like most of the out of towners we don't listen to all the radio interviews, talk shows (probably a good thing), etc.

 

Sometimes our views of what is really being said and what is insinuated can get jaded in here.

 

I am still in the give Murray the benefit of the doubt stage but it is go time. Get your coach, make the easy draft pick, and then let's play hockey - to win!!

This should be the exclamation point on this thread!! Well said.

[LGR4GM]

Wait Nolan released a statement in which he doesn't specifically, by name, thank the guy who fired him? 

 

[dudacek]

This was never about blaming Nolan for his win and loss record.  Everyone expected a poor record. (somewhere between 30-25). 

 

The problem with Nolan was his commitment to the defensive zone collapse. The defensive zone collapse is Nolan's brand of Hockey. 

Nolan's brand of hockey means no speed from the back end to the forwards, because there was no speed you almost always saw the cross ice pass through the neutral zone in transition, you might win the offensive zone, but you are almost never going to score  because you can't attack the net with numbers. 

 

So you have a bunch of young thoroughbreds. Wouldn't it have been a much more entertaining brand of hockey to have let these kids loose, and let them get up ice ....now the team might have lost by wider margins at times, but there would have been a greater commitment to generating speed and offense especially from the back end and in transition.  (This was Ottawa's development model with Paul MaClean....and man was it a blast to watch.) 

 

So here it goes with the choice. Choose A or B

 

A) Keep Nolan's System and an entire team tethered to its own  goalpost with the Zone Collapse  losing games 3-2.

B) Open up the hockey and play a system that better trains your thoroughbreds for the future but losing games 5-4 

 

Either way the record might have been the same but I'm pretty sure Murray wanted B. 

 

That's what I see. 

 

Great observations.

Articulates in technical terms what was troubling about Teddy's approach.

Also explains the terrible Corsi numbers and great save percentages.

 

Have you had this discussion with qualified scouts/coaches?