The Next Coach of the Buffalo Sabres

[wjag]

:)

 

Wasn't everyone popping champagne in the front office a few days ago?

 

How much would Babcock have gotten from Toronto if Buffalo didn't get involved?

 

Now......you don't want to give rightful compensation (which y'all misreadin' anyway), to the waddlin' birds?

 

 

That's OK.....feel free to keep your draft pick.

 

The coaching budget just went from $50 million to $4 million.......but at least you will get a guy who is 2 years older than Bylsma to come aboard who has lead the Baby Sens to one playoff game victory in his 3 years of coaching in the AHL.

 

If God cast out angels from actual Heaven.........isn't it a possibility that some need to be cast out of, Hockey Heaven???........

 

Do I "Sens" a bit of panic in this post?

[Huckleberry]

Guy boucher is my favourite right now, hire Todd Nelson as his assitant coach :D

[carpandean]

I feel like I'm talking to myself.  Even quoted, people seemed to miss my point.  The article did not say that Bylsma would cost a first.  It said that his rights could be part of a package for 21.  Nobody in the article, including the Pens' GM, implied that his rights would be worth anything close to a first alone.  The fact that the Sabres' second 1st-rounder is one of the ones that they are targeting and the Sabres are one of the leading teams for Bylsma just makes it more likely that they could work out a deal (including, but far from limited to, Dan's rights.)

 

Edited to add quotes:

 

“We haven’t gotten to that point,” he said. “That [right to seek compensation] rule kind of works against itself. On one hand, you’re paying an employee who’s not working, so teams prefer to get their salaries moved on [to another club]. But at the same time, we have a rule that, in some cases, there could be compensation.”

 

Doesn't sound like someone expecting huge compensation.

 

If the Sabres decide to hire Bylsma, that conceivably could fuse with Buffalo’s willingness to part with the latter of its first-rounders to trigger an intriguing sequence of events: The rights to a coach the Penguins no longer want could end up being one element of a trade package that would enable them to acquire the first-round selection they crave.

 

Note the "one element of a trade package" in the author's quote.

Edited May 27, 2015 by carpandean

[darksabre]

I feel like I'm talking to myself. Even quoted, people seemed to miss my point. The article did not say that Bylsma would cost a first. It said that his rights could be part of a package for 21. Nobody in the article, including the Pens' GM, implied that his rights would be worth anything close to a first alone. The fact that the Sabres' second 1st-rounder is one of the ones that they are targeting and the Sabres are one of the leading teams for Bylsma just makes it more likely that they could work out a deal (including, but far from limited to, Dan's rights.)

 

Edited to add quotes:

 

 

Doesn't sound like someone expecting huge compensation.

 

 

Note the "one element of a trade package" in the author's quote.

I appreciate you coming back to re-explain your post that was already well explained. What is wrong with this place that even your posts aren't being read thoroughly enough? Yikes. Dark days.

[carpandean]

I appreciate you coming back to re-explain your post that was already well explained. What is wrong with this place that even your posts aren't being read thoroughly enough? Yikes. Dark days.

 

Tank hangover. ;)

[shrader]

I feel like I'm talking to myself.  Even quoted, people seemed to miss my point.  The article did not say that Bylsma would cost a first.  It said that his rights could be part of a package for 21.  Nobody in the article, including the Pens' GM, implied that his rights would be worth anything close to a first alone.  The fact that the Sabres' second 1st-rounder is one of the ones that they are targeting and the Sabres are one of the leading teams for Bylsma just makes it more likely that they could work out a deal (including, but far from limited to, Dan's rights.)

 

Edited to add quotes:

 

 

Doesn't sound like someone expecting huge compensation.

 

 

Note the "one element of a trade package" in the author's quote.

 

 

I'd love to know what qualifies as "in some cases".  The whole thing is such a strange process and I wonder if there is anything actually written in stone that outlines these cases of trying to hire a fired coach.  If by some chance they do try to put together some sort of package deal, the Bylsma portion will wind up being the equivalent of the classic future considerations or the Jason Kasdorf throw in.

[Brawndo]

Darren Dreger on GR right now, mentioned that GMTM might be meeting with Bylsma today

[carpandean]

I'd love to know what qualifies as "in some cases".  The whole thing is such a strange process and I wonder if there is anything actually written in stone that outlines these cases of trying to hire a fired coach.  If by some chance they do try to put together some sort of package deal, the Bylsma portion will wind up being the equivalent of the classic future considerations or the Jason Kasdorf throw in.

 

I doubt that there are rules.  Simply a supply-and-demand thing.  A team has to have fired a coach that is then in high demand.  At that point, they need to choose their value, which can't be so high that it scares away any team from signing him, because they also benefit from having the salary come off of the books.  As you say, there may be compensation for Bylsma, but it will be a very small part of a package for a first.

Edited May 27, 2015 by carpandean

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Do I "Sens" a bit of panic in this post?

 

I will admit, thanks to Hoss, every time I think of Richardson......I think of..... Da Feet.........

[inkman]

I will admit, thanks to Hoss, every time I think of Richardson......I think of..... Da Feet.........

Perhaps he was trying to gain favor with Rex

[LGR4GM]

Darren Dreger on GR right now, mentioned that GMTM might be meeting with Bylsma today

I liked the part where he said "Jack Eichel is not that far behind Connor McDavid"

[...]

I feel like I'm talking to myself.  Even quoted, people seemed to miss my point.  The article did not say that Bylsma would cost a first.  It said that his rights could be part of a package for 21.  Nobody in the article, including the Pens' GM, implied that his rights would be worth anything close to a first alone.  The fact that the Sabres' second 1st-rounder is one of the ones that they are targeting and the Sabres are one of the leading teams for Bylsma just makes it more likely that they could work out a deal (including, but far from limited to, Dan's rights.)

 

Your point is fine, you just re-state the content of the article, which is clear on its surface.  What's not clear is how much hardball the Pen's GM wants to play. Example: Bylsma wants to come here, say, and Buffalo wants to hire him, but Murray says no way he wants to trade that first for a "package" with the Penguins.  Now, NJ wants to hire Bylsma, Bylsma is lukewarm on that destination, but NJ is willing to deal a first for some package with the Pens.  What's to say the Pens hold out and tell Bylsma we won't let you go to the Sabres but we'll let you go to NJ?

 

Obviously, the article makes no implications either way.  You can read it to mean "awe, shucks, it'd be real dandy to somehow acquire a first as part of a Bylsma deal, but Dan is a swell guy and we're not going to hold him back regardless..." or "we're going to hang a first round pick over Bylsma's head, the team willing to give up that first round pick for Bylsma and one of our over-rated bottom 6 players is the team we'll allow him to go to; it's business, not personal, Dan..." 

 

I don't think the "awe shucks" angle is the angle we should expect out of these teams.

[Hoss]

I feel like I'm talking to myself. Even quoted, people seemed to miss my point. The article did not say that Bylsma would cost a first. It said that his rights could be part of a package for 21. Nobody in the article, including the Pens' GM, implied that his rights would be worth anything close to a first alone. The fact that the Sabres' second 1st-rounder is one of the ones that they are targeting and the Sabres are one of the leading teams for Bylsma just makes it more likely that they could work out a deal (including, but far from limited to, Dan's rights.)

 

Edited to add quotes:

 

 

Doesn't sound like someone expecting huge compensation.

 

 

Note the "one element of a trade package" in the author's quote.

I read and understood your original post. Not sure why others missed it. I never read the actual link because most of the relevant stuff was quoted, but thanks for quoting the compensation stuff.

I can't believe some read the original and still supported the idea of dealing a one for Bylsma.

I'd love to know what qualifies as "in some cases". The whole thing is such a strange process and I wonder if there is anything actually written in stone that outlines these cases of trying to hire a fired coach. If by some chance they do try to put together some sort of package deal, the Bylsma portion will wind up being the equivalent of the classic future considerations or the Jason Kasdorf throw in.

Any executive (hockey ops) or coach still being paid by another organization. The only thing I'm not clear on is if it applies to guys getting a promotion with the new club. A team has to demand the compensation, and if they receive compensation they don't get out of the contract with their former employee.

Your point is fine, you just re-state the content of the article, which is clear on its surface. What's not clear is how much hardball the Pen's GM wants to play. Example: Bylsma wants to come here, say, and Buffalo wants to hire him, but Murray says no way he wants to trade that first for a "package" with the Penguins. Now, NJ wants to hire Bylsma, Bylsma is lukewarm on that destination, but NJ is willing to deal a first for some package with the Pens. What's to say the Pens hold out and tell Bylsma we won't let you go to the Sabres but we'll let you go to NJ?

 

Obviously, the article makes no implications either way. You can read it to mean "awe, shucks, it'd be real dandy to somehow acquire a first as part of a Bylsma deal, but Dan is a swell guy and we're not going to hold him back regardless..." or "we're going to hang a first round pick over Bylsma's head, the team willing to give up that first round pick for Bylsma and one of our over-rated bottom 6 players is the team we'll allow him to go to; it's business, not personal, Dan..."

 

I don't think the "awe shucks" angle is the angle we should expect out of these teams.

If the Sabres offer him more money and he wants to be here then Bylsma could easily just say this is the only job he will accept. Pittsburgh would then be forced to either take no compensation or what little Buffalo offers to get anything out of it. Otherwise they get nothing and pay Bylsma as they were. Also, New Jersey isn't giving up number six for a coach anyways.

Now, we have no reason to believe any hardball is coming.

[nfreeman]

I feel like I'm talking to myself.  Even quoted, people seemed to miss my point.  The article did not say that Bylsma would cost a first.  It said that his rights could be part of a package for 21.  Nobody in the article, including the Pens' GM, implied that his rights would be worth anything close to a first alone.  The fact that the Sabres' second 1st-rounder is one of the ones that they are targeting and the Sabres are one of the leading teams for Bylsma just makes it more likely that they could work out a deal (including, but far from limited to, Dan's rights.)

 

Edited to add quotes:

 

 

Doesn't sound like someone expecting huge compensation.

 

 

Note the "one element of a trade package" in the author's quote.

 

 

Still not clear enough.  Please explain more. 

 

In the meantime, if those jerks in Pittsburgh think they're getting our first-rounder, they can kiss my ####!!!

[WildCard]

Still not clear enough.  Please explain more. 

 

In the meantime, if those jerks in Pittsburgh think they're getting our first-rounder, they can kiss my ####!!!

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if it's not: Pitt doesn't have a 1st (traded in the Perron deal to Edmonton) so trying to get our 21 in a package deal that involves Byslma would make sense. Byslma wouldn't even be the 1st, or 2nd, largest part of the trade IMO, but it could be a launching point for conversations.

 

 

Any idea what Pitt has that we could want? 

[woods-racer]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if it's not: Pitt doesn't have a 1st (traded in the Perron deal to Edmonton) so trying to get our 21 in a package deal that involves Byslma would make sense. Byslma wouldn't even be the 1st, or 2nd, largest part of the trade IMO, but it could be a launching point for conversations.

 

 

Any idea what Pitt has that we could want? 

Malkin?

[jsb]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if it's not: Pitt doesn't have a 1st (traded in the Perron deal to Edmonton) so trying to get our 21 in a package deal that involves Byslma would make sense. Byslma wouldn't even be the 1st, or 2nd, largest part of the trade IMO, but it could be a launching point for conversations.

 

 

Any idea what Pitt has that we could want? 

 

Patric Hornqvist maybe??? A RWinger ready to play.

Edited May 27, 2015 by jsb

[nfreeman]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if it's not: Pitt doesn't have a 1st (traded in the Perron deal to Edmonton) so trying to get our 21 in a package deal that involves Byslma would make sense. Byslma wouldn't even be the 1st, or 2nd, largest part of the trade IMO, but it could be a launching point for conversations.

 

 

Any idea what Pitt has that we could want? 

 

It was sarcasm.

[WildCard]

Malkin?

We already have our franchise centers, and aren't in the position to acquire a win-now player like Malkin. I still say he goes to Montreal in a block-buster.

 

Patric Hornqvist maybe??? A RWinger ready to play.

Good idea looking at RW, but I'm not sure Pitt would be willing to give him up for a 1st which is essentially a prospect. He plays to pivotal a role on their team and leaves a void to fill if they trade him away without bringing a starter back. I think we're looking at prospects they have in a trade like this. 

[sabresith]

Malkin?

Honestly, I think this might be a possibility. It kinda seemed this year that Geno was over the pens and the pens were over him. The question is what else would it take beyond the 21st pick?

 

Really, if they want that pick what else do they really have? Beau Bennett, thats all I can think of. Maybe Bennett, Peron, and Bylasma for the 21st.

[Brawndo]

I liked the part where he said "Jack Eichel is not that far behind Connor McDavid"

That was my favorite part as well

 

 

 

@StepnerWKBW: I'm told Dan Bylsma is meeting with the #Sabres today about their head coach vacancy per league source.

Edited May 27, 2015 by BRAWNDO

[Hoss]

The Sharks hired Peter DeBoer. Two bullets dodged there.

[Swedesessed]

The Sharks hired Peter DeBoer. Two bullets dodged there.

 

 

+1!

[dudacek]

Carp's original post was very clear.

Even if it wasn't, the point is the Pens have no leverage in this situation.

 

Your choice: pay Bylsma millions to sit, or save millions by letting him go to Buffalo?

 

A coach or assistant on your staff sure, but an anyone remember compensation for a fired coach?

Buffalo and Bylsma hold all the power.

I would be surprised if the Pens get anything at all.

 

With the DeBoer news, and the franchise situation in New Jersey, Murray and Bylsma would have to hit it off like Hoss and Drane for Disco Boy not to be coming here. I expect an announcement by the end of the week,

[LTS]

They could add to the offense, or they could wash out (or implode in Kane's case).  I think Labatt's point was that it's just too soon to tell whether these will turn out to have been good moves.  For example, everyone liked the Moulson signing, but early returns on him were not promising last year.

 

Moulson is a player who needs someone to get him the puck.  That player was not on the roster last year but Murray knows that player is coming. So he snapped up Moulson when he could so that one of Grigorenko, Reinhart, or Eichel could get him the puck.  Not every move is made for the year its made in..

 

That's a fair point but I think it's a big enough jump into the NHL as it is that I don't know if I want my Reinhart's and Eichel's learning a complex system while also getting use to the speed of the NHL etc.  To me it's like putting a kid starting highschool in Grade 12 algebra because in three or four years when he's applying to universities he wants him to be a master.  Maybe it works out, or maybe the kid is so lost because he hasn't learned the fundamentals that things go sideways for a couple years and the teacher (Bylsma) is gone and we're left learning a new system anyways.

 

These players are aware of the systems at this point. The decision making speed is something they will either have the capacity for or not. I don't think your analogy to algebra applies because in this case they've been playing hockey their entire lives and had different systems. The subtleties are there but it' not a huge jump. The same with a QB. A QB with the capacity to learn will learn it all at once with perhaps some minor wrinkles thrown in later. The basic sets are the basic sets on both sides of the ball.

 

The question becomes more of whether the system is so complex that it's not possible to learn it at the level that would be required to master it. At any point in time the entire system can be decided upon and built out as complex it needs to be but the rendering engine (human brain) needs to be able to find all of those inputs and make decisions at a speed that is not possible. Worse yet, when you need all 5 players on the ice doing it at the same time the problem is further enhanced.

 

So, a complex system can be learned by top level players but that does no good if they expect a teammate to be in a position because they read the play one way and the other player didn't.  I worry less about Reinhart and Eichel and a lot more about the lower end players who have to play with them.