MattPie Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 You may be onto something here, but thank goodness there was a glitch in the phone line when it was time for the Sabres to make the first pick in 1970. Or that was the first year Montreal didn't have dibs any more. :) I took a look at Montreal's seasons since 1970: - I didn't realize the run they were on from 67-80. Am I reading that right, they had 8 cups in 13 years? Yikes! - If you take the "we get dibs" effect out (they presumably got good FC kids in 67-69 and those kids played well for the Habs through the 70s) and start with 1980, they have only two cups.
WildCard Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I missed this but thanks for telling me something I already knew. Basically since I was old enough to remember the Royalty of the NHL is Detroit, not Montreal. I hear players all the time discuss how great Detroit is. They have won 4 cups since that last cup Montreal won. I don't know how Babcock feels but Montreal has fallen from being the most super duper place ever since 93. It would be like if the Yankees hadn't won a World Series the entire time Jeter played for them. If that happened they wouldn't be thought of as the same powerhouse they are. History isn't based on recent success but which team is perceived as being better is. I mean Edmonton must be better than the Penguins because they have won more cups. That is the argument here. Not my argument at all. There is a prestige that comes with Montreal that does not come with any other team in the NHL. It's not based on their recent success at all. And yes, I would argue that Edmonton has a more storied franchise than Pittsburgh.
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Not my argument at all. There is a prestige that comes with Montreal that does not come with any other team in the NHL. It's not based on their recent success at all. And yes, I would argue that Edmonton has a more storied franchise than Pittsburgh. But why should Babcock care? Detroit is a storied team. Montreal is a storied team if that is important going to Montreal gives him nothing he doesn't already have.
WildCard Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 But why should Babcock care? Detroit is a storied team. Montreal is a storied team if that is important going to Montreal gives him nothing he doesn't already have. Detroit is storied true, but Montreal is the big stage, the grand finale. For some that matters. Not saying it would for Babcock, but IMO that's the only angle Montreal has working for them to lure him over there.
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Detroit is storied true, but Montreal is the big stage, the grand finale. For some that matters. Not saying it would for Babcock, but IMO that's the only angle Montreal has working for them to lure him over there. I don't understand how Montreal is the Grand Finale.
Doohicksie Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 While Buffalo used to be in the top-10 in population 100 years ago and still respectable 50 years ago, we're near #50 in the US now. Fort Worth is around #17 in population, but we'll never get our own sports teams because they lump us in with Dallas. Interestingly, the Cowboys and Rangers play closer to Fort Worth than the do in Dallas (both in Arlington, which is in Tarrant County which Ft Worth is the county seat of). Only the Dallas Stars play in Dallas.
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Fort Worth is around #17 in population, but we'll never get our own sports teams because they lump us in with Dallas. Interestingly, the Cowboys and Rangers play closer to Fort Worth than the do in Dallas (both in Arlington, which is in Tarrant County which Ft Worth is the county seat of). Only the Dallas Stars play in Dallas. Only the Buffalo Bills play in NY.
WildCard Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I don't understand how Montreal is the Grand Finale. I don't know how else to explain it. They're the biggest stage in the NHL.
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I don't know how else to explain it. They're the biggest stage in the NHL. I don't see that. If that were true I feel like announcers would mention it more and so would players. I almost never hear people talk about how great Montreal is because of all the History. I actually hear that more about Toronto and how they are the biggest NHL stage.
WildCard Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I don't see that. If that were true I feel like announcers would mention it more and so would players. I almost never hear people talk about how great Montreal is because of all the History. I actually hear that more about Toronto and how they are the biggest NHL stage. I think Toronto is the center of the hockey market because of their media, and maybe that makes them the biggest stage because of all the attention, but I do no think they are the most storied franchise.
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I think Toronto is the center of the hockey market because of their media, and maybe that makes them the biggest stage because of all the attention, but I do no think they are the most storied franchise. Hmm, that's true.
Randall Flagg Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Even when I was young enough to not know every team's name, I knew Montreal was hockey's Mecca, don't know which rock Liger grew up under... :)
Eleven Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I don't see that. If that were true I feel like announcers would mention it more and so would players. I almost never hear people talk about how great Montreal is because of all the History. I actually hear that more about Toronto and how they are the biggest NHL stage. From my childhood to my early adulthood, the New York Yankees won nothing. But they were still the Yankees, you know?
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 From my childhood to my early adulthood, the New York Yankees won nothing. But they were still the Yankees, you know? So the Yankees are the Maple Leafs.
Doohicksie Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I missed this but thanks for telling me something I already knew. Basically since I was old enough to remember the Royalty of the NHL is Detroit, not Montreal. I hear players all the time discuss how great Detroit is. They have won 4 cups since that last cup Montreal won. I don't know how Babcock feels but Montreal has fallen from being the most super duper place ever since 93. It would be like if the Yankees hadn't won a World Series the entire time Jeter played for them. If that happened they wouldn't be thought of as the same powerhouse they are. Those of us of a certain age still see Montreal as a premier franchise. And when Detroit won that '97 Cup, it brought a 42-year drought to a close. They were pretty much considered the city where goalies came to die, because they would have good, not great, teams (think of the Sabres before the rebuild) but in the end the fans seemed to blame the goalie for the failings of the team (I was living in Detroit at the time). Mike Vernon finally brought an end to that trend, and he did a good job of passing that zen onto Chris Osgood. But prior to that they were just kind of a nothing franchise for a generation.
LGR4GM Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Those of us of a certain age still see Montreal as a premier franchise. And when Detroit won that '97 Cup, it brought a 42-year drought to a close. They were pretty much considered the city where goalies came to die, because they would have good, not great, teams (think of the Sabres before the rebuild) but in the end the fans seemed to blame the goalie for the failings of the team (I was living in Detroit at the time). Mike Vernon finally brought an end to that trend, and he did a good job of passing that zen onto Chris Osgood. But prior to that they were just kind of a nothing franchise for a generation. So it's a generational difference then. Maybe Babcock would like Montreal then.
Doohicksie Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Am I reading that right, they had 8 cups in 13 years? Yikes! Those are the Montreal Canadiens I remember.
Hoss Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 So the Yankees are the Maple Leafs. No, the Yankees are the Habs. The Knicks are the Maple Leafs.
Doohicksie Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 I don't see that. If that were true I feel like announcers would mention it more and so would players. I almost never hear people talk about how great Montreal is because of all the History. I actually hear that more about Toronto and how they are the biggest NHL stage. Toronto is jealous so they (and their fans) flap their jaws more. With Montreal, it goes without saying. So it's a generational difference then. Maybe Babcock would like Montreal then. Not sure, but Babcock is right around my age.
WildCard Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 No, the Yankees are the Habs. The Knicks are the Maple Leafs. The Knicks, and the Mets
Hoss Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 The Knicks, and the Mets Mets are probably the better comparison since we're talking baseball. Good call.
shrader Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 How many Montreal cups came when they had dibs on any French Canadian players? I'm wondering how that worked, did Montreal just get to submit a list of players they wanted and got? Or did they sit in the call and any time a FC player came up with another team's pick they just yelled, "dibs, you EEnglish pig-dogs" into the phone? Originally, each team sponsored a long list of junior teams. If you played on one of those junior teams, essentially your rights automatically belonged to that NHL team. They might sponsor a random team out in western Canada where there wasn't an NHL team, but pretty much all of the local area teams would wind up sponsored by the NHL team in that area. So Montreal winds up with all the french canadians. I'm not entirely sure how the American teams were able to bite into the canadian market, especially the non-border towns (ie. everyone but Detroit). I had a great exchange over PM with millibank years ago where he explained the whole thing to me. He even mentioned how he had some paperwork from when he was a kid that assigned his rights to a specific team. Maybe he'll read this post and share his information.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Back in the day Montreal had the Junior Canadiens, Perreault played his junior hockey there, for French Canadien kids. Most went on to play for the NHL Canadiens. That is how I remember it, maybe I'm wrong on that.
shrader Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 Back in the day Montreal had the Junior Canadiens, Perreault played his junior hockey there, for French Canadien kids. Most went on to play for the NHL Canadiens. That is how I remember it, maybe I'm wrong on that. The stuff I mentioned existed up until they instituted the NHL draft (1963). That changed everything.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted May 14, 2015 Report Posted May 14, 2015 The stuff I mentioned existed up until they instituted the NHL draft (1963). That changed everything. Right. I was making my point to agree / complement yours. And, you are right the draft system changed a lot, but the Junior Canadiens still existed up to at least 1970, but many French players ended up on other NHL teams, especially after expansion.
Recommended Posts