Hoss Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I think the real reason that Detroit is doing this is to guarantee compensation. They know that teams are willing to wait for him because he's that good... If they refuse to let him talk to other teams they lose any chance of compensation. I don't think Detroit cares about other options. Their coach next year will be Babcock or Blashill. Blashill is a great coach down in the AHL and knows the youth in Detroit very well. Blashill is the reason I think Detroit ends up letting Babcock walk. They won't want to get in a bidding war. He's their fallback and I'm sure they're very confident in him. I think Babcock ends up in Edmonton, Buffalo or Philly.
Eleven Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 It's actually just one third over any of the next three years. Wording on original tweet was weird. Holland said he wants it resolved within 2-3 weeks. So he's leaving Detroit and Detroit wants to get whatever it can for him.
Derrico Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I just have this feeling we're getting Babcock. Why not? I would think if the choice is between Edmonton or Buffalo then his family would want to be in Buffalo due to closer proximity to, well everything that matters in comparison to Edmonton. Someone already mentioned the taxes part. He commented after being knocked out of the playoffs that a team needs to be good on the back end and down the middle. The Sabres have both in Spades. BP Oil is loaded up front and I think Nurse will end up being a pretty good player but Buffalo has more going for them right now IMO. Babcock is a smart guy, I would think he sees what's going on in terms of young guys ready to step up over the next couple of years.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I really don't see how trading for guys like Kane and Bogosian jives with a coach like Babcock coming in here. When you add Eichel to the mix.....this team screams for a guy like Bylsma. Babacock is a better version of Ruff.
nfreeman Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I'm really starting to think there is no chance he ends up in Edmonton. Reasons are; family, Canada will take half his contract right off the bat( so if he gets 5mil a year they will take 2.5mil right of, so it's really only a 500thousand raise to go to Edmonton), and finally Babcock wants more final say on the roster and I don't think he will get that with Chiarelli. No. He pays plenty of tax in Michigan. Separately: I'm interpreting this announcement as meaning that Babcock is leaving Detroit. I also think he is not going to go to Edmonton, partially due to remote location but more due to Edmonton not being willing to pay what Buffalo and Philly (and Toronto) would pay. So that leaves, IMHO, Toronto, Buffalo and Philly. If we assume that each of those 3 would pay the same amount, then Babcock will probably make his decision based on (i) quality of rosters; (ii) quality of management/ownership; and (iii) location preference. I would guess that Philly would probably offer Babcock the best combination of those 3 factors, and Toronto the worst, but it's pretty close. Babcock could feel that Toronto is his dream job and could have a great relationship with Shanahan. Or he could think highly of GMTM, love the idea of coaching Eichel, Reinhart and Risto and be as impressed with the Pegulas as Rex Ryan was. Or he could look at the Flyers' roster, home-ice atmosphere and winning tradition and choose them. The Sabres might get him though. That would really be something.
TrueBlueGED Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I think the real reason that Detroit is doing this is to guarantee compensation. They know that teams are willing to wait for him because he's that good... If they refuse to let him talk to other teams they lose any chance of compensation. I don't think Detroit cares about other options. Their coach next year will be Babcock or Blashill. Blashill is a great coach down in the AHL and knows the youth in Detroit very well. Blashill is the reason I think Detroit ends up letting Babcock walk. They won't want to get in a bidding war. He's their fallback and I'm sure they're very confident in him. I think Babcock ends up in Edmonton, Buffalo or Philly. I think you're half right--Detroit wants compensation for him, but they're not letting him leave in any real sense...he wants out for a better long-term hockey situation. Holland isn't dumb, he knows as well as Babcock does that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are nearing the end and they don't have any viable replacements. I really don't see how trading for guys like Kane and Bogosian jives with a coach like Babcock coming in here. When you add Eichel to the mix.....this team screams for a guy like Bylsma. Babacock is a better version of Ruff. What in the world is this gibberish. No. He pays plenty of tax in Michigan. Separately: I'm interpreting this announcement as meaning that Babcock is leaving Detroit. I also think he is not going to go to Edmonton, partially due to remote location but more due to Edmonton not being willing to pay what Buffalo and Philly (and Toronto) would pay. So that leaves, IMHO, Toronto, Buffalo and Philly. If we assume that each of those 3 would pay the same amount, then Babcock will probably make his decision based on (i) quality of rosters; (ii) quality of management/ownership; and (iii) location preference. I would guess that Philly would probably offer Babcock the best combination of those 3 factors, and Toronto the worst, but it's pretty close. Babcock could feel that Toronto is his dream job and could have a great relationship with Shanahan. Or he could think highly of GMTM, love the idea of coaching Eichel, Reinhart and Risto and be as impressed with the Pegulas as Rex Ryan was. Or he could look at the Flyers' roster, home-ice atmosphere and winning tradition and choose them. The Sabres might get him though. That would really be something. Philly's roster is not good--they were 14 points out of the playoffs while trying to win. For as great as Giroux/Simmonds/Voracek are, their blue line is an unmitigated disaster and they have little financial flexibility to make it better in the near term. They have nearly $20 million tied up in Streit, MacDonald, Schenn and Grossman, with MacDonald and Streit both locked up for 2+ years...and they're all bad.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Babcock is from the Lindy Ruff coaching philosophy. That's great if you have tons of disciplined, highly talented players, and enough role guys with talent. The Sabres do not. Tim Murray has gone all-in on team where the high end guys "play a heavy game". They suck so bad right now that you need to see progress that is built off the personality of their leaders. Kane, Bogosian, Eichel.....they aren't Lidstron, Zetterberg, Datsyuk. I mean that in a good way. A good GM will select a coach who will bring out synergy in his team. If the Sabres hire Blysma, I truly believe there is a realistic shot at the Cup in 5 years. If it is Babacock, no dice compadre.
sabresith Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 No. He pays plenty of tax in Michigan. Separately: I'm interpreting this announcement as meaning that Babcock is leaving Detroit. I also think he is not going to go to Edmonton, partially due to remote location but more due to Edmonton not being willing to pay what Buffalo and Philly (and Toronto) would pay. So that leaves, IMHO, Toronto, Buffalo and Philly. If we assume that each of those 3 would pay the same amount, then Babcock will probably make his decision based on (i) quality of rosters; (ii) quality of management/ownership; and (iii) location preference. I would guess that Philly would probably offer Babcock the best combination of those 3 factors, and Toronto the worst, but it's pretty close. Babcock could feel that Toronto is his dream job and could have a great relationship with Shanahan. Or he could think highly of GMTM, love the idea of coaching Eichel, Reinhart and Risto and be as impressed with the Pegulas as Rex Ryan was. Or he could look at the Flyers' roster, home-ice atmosphere and winning tradition and choose them. The Sabres might get him though. That would really be something. All the talking heads seem to think Toronto is out of it. Which I would tend to agree with. They are about 5years from even being a playoff contender. In regards to Detroit, I didn't know their taxes were that high! Philly is definitely intriguing. They have the better nhl players, but we have the better prospect pool who are ready to make the jump. Should be an interesting next couple of weeks.
dudacek Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Babcock is gone, that much is clear. And it just feels like he was coming here all along.
Derrico Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Babcock is gone, that much is clear. And it just feels like he was coming here all along. Yep. After getting Rex earlier in the year it makes it feel right. Terry gets what he wants.
Rasmus_ Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 There's also Philadelphia, San Jose, and possibly other candidates. If it were down to Buffalo and Edmonton, I will take my chances. It would be a punchers decision.
X. Benedict Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Yep. After getting Rex earlier in the year it makes it feel right. Terry gets what he wants. I actually think it might be Murray that actually lands him.
... Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I actually think it might be Murray that actually lands him. Absolutely. I think Babcock and Murray are nearly peas-in-a-pod when it comes to running a hockey team. Where we barely saw Nolan and Murray together, and when we did, it was uncomfortable, I can imagine seeing a Babcock/Murray combo just as much as, or more than, we saw Ruff/Regier. I don't see the draw to Philly, I really don't. WTH would Babcock want from that area, as a region? Conversely, I would NOT rule out Edmonton, at all. Saskatoon is just down the road, relatively, and they have just as much talent in their pool as we do, if not more. This comes down to Buffalo or Edmonton as far as I can see it.
nfreeman Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 There's also Philadelphia, San Jose, and possibly other candidates. If it were down to Buffalo and Edmonton, I will take my chances. It would be a punchers decision. I think there is NFW that SJ will pay the freight to get Babcock. Moreover, SJ's roster looks kinda like Detroit's in terms of aging leadership -- so I don't think there would be any hockey reason to leave Detroit for SJ. (Now, if he likes the idea of living in Northern CA, that is another story entirely and completely understandable.) Absolutely. I think Babcock and Murray are nearly peas-in-a-pod when it comes to running a hockey team. Where we barely saw Nolan and Murray together, and when we did, it was uncomfortable, I can imagine seeing a Babcock/Murray combo just as much as, or more than, we saw Ruff/Regier. I don't see the draw to Philly, I really don't. WTH would Babcock want from that area, as a region? Conversely, I would NOT rule out Edmonton, at all. Saskatoon is just down the road, relatively, and they have just as much talent in their pool as we do, if not more. This comes down to Buffalo or Edmonton as far as I can see it. I like WNY quite a bit, but people from there really have no business taking shots at other parts of the country. Philly is a nice city, and there are plenty of nice towns surrounding it as well. As for Edmonton, it's long been viewed as the most undesirable outpost in the NHL -- and its owner has not taken the TP throw-cash-at-the-situation approach to running his franchise.
... Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I like WNY quite a bit, but people from there really have no business taking shots at other parts of the country. Philly is a nice city, and there are plenty of nice towns surrounding it as well. As for Edmonton, it's long been viewed as the most undesirable outpost in the NHL -- and its owner has not taken the TP throw-cash-at-the-situation approach to running his franchise. I don't see how that's a "shot" at anything. You can call any area "nice" with "nice...surroundings", but what is the draw for someone like Babcock? It's as far away from his home as any potential suitor. He's an middle-aged, contemplative family man, so I have my doubts a high-density urban center is going to be a positive factor in his selection, regardless of how "nice" it is.
sabresith Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Absolutely. I think Babcock and Murray are nearly peas-in-a-pod when it comes to running a hockey team. Where we barely saw Nolan and Murray together, and when we did, it was uncomfortable, I can imagine seeing a Babcock/Murray combo just as much as, or more than, we saw Ruff/Regier. I don't see the draw to Philly, I really don't. WTH would Babcock want from that area, as a region? Conversely, I would NOT rule out Edmonton, at all. Saskatoon is just down the road, relatively, and they have just as much talent in their pool as we do, if not more. This comes down to Buffalo or Edmonton as far as I can see it. The main difference I see between them and us is, defensive prospects. Where Edmonton has two that are ready to make the jump and we have two that already have. Plus another two in McCabe and Pysk who are ready to. The thing I keep coming back to is, his first head coaching chance was given to him gmtm. I really feel like that is going to go along way with him. Not to mention the Pegula' s willingness to do whatever it takes to win a cup.
CallawaySabres Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Absolutely. I think Babcock and Murray are nearly peas-in-a-pod when it comes to running a hockey team. Where we barely saw Nolan and Murray together, and when we did, it was uncomfortable, I can imagine seeing a Babcock/Murray combo just as much as, or more than, we saw Ruff/Regier. I don't see the draw to Philly, I really don't. WTH would Babcock want from that area, as a region? Conversely, I would NOT rule out Edmonton, at all. Saskatoon is just down the road, relatively, and they have just as much talent in their pool as we do, if not more. This comes down to Buffalo or Edmonton as far as I can see it. Well it looks like Edmonton is close to signing McLellan so that could be one more team off the Babcock list. I hope Buffalo is not putting everything they have into one guy....
nfreeman Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I don't see how that's a "shot" at anything. You can call any area "nice" with "nice...surroundings", but what is the draw for someone like Babcock? It's as far away from his home as any potential suitor. He's an middle-aged, contemplative family man, so I have my doubts a high-density urban center is going to be a positive factor in his selection, regardless of how "nice" it is. OK -- I must've misinterpreted your post. My mistake. However: if we're looking at location as a factor -- and focusing on distance from home in particular -- what advantages does Buffalo have over Philly?
Eleven Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) OK -- I must've misinterpreted your post. My mistake. However: if we're looking at location as a factor -- and focusing on distance from home in particular -- what advantages does Buffalo have over Philly? Housing. Proximity to his homeland. Ability to get around relatively easily when they're not filming the TMNT movie. I still think he ends up in Detroit or Philly. I'd love to be wrong. Edited May 8, 2015 by Eleven
... Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 OK -- I must've misinterpreted your post. My mistake. However: if we're looking at location as a factor -- and focusing on distance from home in particular -- what advantages does Buffalo have over Philly? I'm compiling factors for and factors against. I would say Philly's distance from Saskatoon and Canada falls in the "against" column when compared to Buffalo's. Here, at least, Toronto, and Canada, is a Friday evening drive away. Factor in, as I mentioned initially, a favorable working environment vis-à-vis his compatibility with Murray, the Pegula's overt desire to win a championship (despite the cost), brand new practice facilities, a stocked talent pool, the proximity to Canada. Now put Philly's "it's a nice city" next to that and that factor wilts.
nfreeman Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I'm compiling factors for and factors against. I would say Philly's distance from Saskatoon and Canada falls in the "against" column when compared to Buffalo's. Here, at least, Toronto, and Canada, is a Friday evening drive away. Factor in, as I mentioned initially, a favorable working environment vis-à-vis his compatibility with Murray, the Pegula's overt desire to win a championship (despite the cost), brand new practice facilities, a stocked talent pool, the proximity to Canada. Now put Philly's "it's a nice city" next to that and that factor wilts. Well, my comment on your post was directed at the differences between the 2 regions. As far as that goes, Buffalo is a cool 1842 miles from Saskatoon, while Philly is 2069 miles away. Pretty negligible difference. I don't think proximity to Canada itself sounds like much of a factor, but of course neither of us knows what's in Babcock's head. As for the other factors, I think you're kidding yourself. The Pegulas don't want a championship any more than Ed Snider does, and the Sabres' facilities aren't any better than the Flyers' are. As for the rosters: There's a reason the Sabres were DFL 2 years in a row, with historically bad metrics. If the Sabres are very lucky, Eichel will be as good in a few years as Giroux and Voracek are right now. Reinhart is, at best, a push relative to Schenn and Couturier. OTOH, the Sabres clearly have cap space in their favor, and probably the perception of a patient owner willing to write big checks and stand quietly in the background (as opposed to Philly's owner, who is probably seen as writing big checks but playing a more prominent role, and doing so more impatiently). I think the Sabres have a shot at him. I just don't agree with the dismissal of Philly as a major threat.
... Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Well, my comment on your post was directed at the differences between the 2 regions. As far as that goes, Buffalo is a cool 1842 miles from Saskatoon, while Philly is 2069 miles away. Pretty negligible difference. I don't think proximity to Canada itself sounds like much of a factor, but of course neither of us knows what's in Babcock's head. As for the other factors, I think you're kidding yourself. The Pegulas don't want a championship any more than Ed Snider does, and the Sabres' facilities aren't any better than the Flyers' are. As for the rosters: There's a reason the Sabres were DFL 2 years in a row, with historically bad metrics. If the Sabres are very lucky, Eichel will be as good in a few years as Giroux and Voracek are right now. Reinhart is, at best, a push relative to Schenn and Couturier. OTOH, the Sabres clearly have cap space in their favor, and probably the perception of a patient owner willing to write big checks and stand quietly in the background (as opposed to Philly's owner, who is probably seen as writing big checks but playing a more prominent role, and doing so more impatiently). I think the Sabres have a shot at him. I just don't agree with the dismissal of Philly as a major threat. Great.
Brawndo Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Per Wawrow, Sabres are interested in Babcock(Shocking I Know) and might interview or at least talk to him at the Worlds next week. http://hosted2.ap.org/CAANR/*/Article_2015-05-08-HKN-Red-Wings-Babcock/id-08411118949a4632991b671c78179e95
WildCard Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 Babcock is from the Lindy Ruff coaching philosophy. That's great if you have tons of disciplined, highly talented players, and enough role guys with talent. The Sabres do not. Tim Murray has gone all-in on team where the high end guys "play a heavy game". They suck so bad right now that you need to see progress that is built off the personality of their leaders. Kane, Bogosian, Eichel.....they aren't Lidstron, Zetterberg, Datsyuk. I mean that in a good way. A good GM will select a coach who will bring out synergy in his team. If the Sabres hire Blysma, I truly believe there is a realistic shot at the Cup in 5 years. If it is Babacock, no dice compadre. i'm confused as to he you think Byslma coaches a heavy game
dudacek Posted May 8, 2015 Report Posted May 8, 2015 I just think if Babcock wanted to go to Detroit he would have already said so. I think detroit is a fallback if his desired position isn't what he had hoped.
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