Thorner Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) I agree thorny but we need a really good offseason to make the jump next year to be a playoff contender. The draft won't provide anything for the upcoming season unless we trade up to #4 or higher. We need to get at least one, hopefully 2 top 6 forwards (Stamkos, Vesey, okposo, Nash, Mcginn) and at least one, hopefully 2 top forward dmen (take your pick).Yup. The draft isn't helping us next year, unless we get to 3 for Puljujarvi. (Realistically, Chychrun has the physicality to probably play in the NHL next season). I'm much more interested (in terms of next year's outlook) in any trades around the draft, and for the biggest day - July 1, for free agency and more potential trades. Edited June 9, 2016 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct fab Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think GMTM will be very active in "hockey" trades. He said so much around the trade deadline. He may have something in place already for all we know. I think tkackuk may be NHL ready too plus I think the Russian dman is more NHL ready and will be better than chychrun. Whatever the cap ends up being will be a big factor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Not trying to be a party pooper, all the draft talk has been exciting and it's been great fun taking part, and we still have another two weeks to go. But I will be pretty relieved when hopefully, next season, we aren't so draft focused at regular season's end anymore. Talking about playoff seeding will be a nice change. Offseason. I guarantee we'll be "draft focused" this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Offseason. I guarantee we'll be "draft focused" this time next year. That's not what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 I agree thorny but we need a really good offseason to make the jump next year to be a playoff contender. The draft won't provide anything for the upcoming season unless we trade up to #4 or higher. We need to get at least one, hopefully 2 top 6 forwards (Stamkos, Vesey, okposo, Nash, Mcginn) and at least one, hopefully 2 top forward dmen (take your pick).I'd only agree with this in the event you convince me Eichel and Reinhart will be the same players next season. We could use another top 6 guy but that's not the be all end all for the playoffs. No that comes down to how much growth we get from Jack, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ct fab Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) I would think jack and Sam would be better. If you put someone on their wing that can actually score, they may be significantly better. Edited June 10, 2016 by ct fab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 I'd only agree with this in the event you convince me Eichel and Reinhart will be the same players next season. We could use another top 6 guy but that's not the be all end all for the playoffs. No that comes down to how much growth we get from Jack, Sam I think we could get above average growth from Sam and Jack, a bounce back year from Ennis and Gus, an unexpected rookie campaign from fill in the blank and we will be on the outside looking in unless TM was right about Lehner and we get someone go share the load with Risto. We dont need Orr, but we do need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 I'd only agree with this in the event you convince me Eichel and Reinhart will be the same players next season. We could use another top 6 guy but that's not the be all end all for the playoffs. No that comes down to how much growth we get from Jack, Sam It likely wouldn't be enough unless we shore up the D. I think we could get above average growth from Sam and Jack, a bounce back year from Ennis and Gus, an unexpected rookie campaign from fill in the blank and we will be on the outside looking in unless TM was right about Lehner and we get someone go share the load with Risto. We dont need Orr, but we do need help. Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Exactly, defense is more important this offseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Everybody seems convinced Sam and Jack will grow enough to improve the offence without outside help. Does no one think Risto, Jake and Pysyk could do the same? Edited June 10, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Everybody seems convinced Sam and Jack will grow enough to improve the offence without outside help. Does no one think Risto, Jake and Pysyk could do the same? Not without more help on the left side. Our left side right now is literally Gorges and McCabe. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Everybody seems convinced Sam and Jack will grow enough to improve the offence without outside help. Does no one think Risto, Jake and Pysyk could do the same? Its possible, but I think to make a playoff run, or make the playoffs we need a true number 2. I have hopes for all the young d but young d make young d mistakes. I will not consider it a tragedy if we stand pat and dont make the playoffs. Patience is a virtue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Everybody seems convinced Sam and Jack will grow enough to improve the offence without outside help. Does no one think Risto, Jake and Pysyk could do the same? 1) Has anyone said we don't need outside forward help? I don't believe that's the argument which has been presented. It's simply a matter of extent of help necessary and prioritization (since I think we all agree we're not fixing every hole on the roster this offseason). Anywho... 2) Can they? Sure. I just think it's incredibly less likely. I also think it's more likely than not that Pysyk isn't even here, and if he is here, I'd be shocked to see Bylsma give him the ice time for any improvement to matter. Let me flip it around a little: do you think it's more likely that Jack and Sam meaningfully improve, or our young blue liners? 3) I think you're making the classic oversimplification of forwards=offense. Defensemen play offense too dammit! I really wish I could remember which stats blogger said "The worst thing to ever happen to defensemen was to be named defensemen" because it's so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 We literally have to add left D. We only have 2 on the roster. Unless Guhle is on the team. We won't make the playoffs with that D though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Everybody seems convinced Sam and Jack will grow enough to improve the offence without outside help. Does no one think Risto, Jake and Pysyk could do the same? I think McCabe can be better but he's not ever gonna produce at high levels. Upside is 2nd pair guy. Risto is at his offensive ceiling or close to it. I think defensively he will be better with less minutes. Pysyk, no I think he'll be a bubble 5th guy on the Sabres. So we need someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 We literally have to add left D. We only have 2 on the roster. Unless Guhle is on the team. We won't make the playoffs with that D though. Speaking of that... Yup. The draft isn't helping us next year, unless we get to 3 for Puljujarvi. (Realistically, Chychrun has the physicality to probably play in the NHL next season). I'm much more interested (in terms of next year's outlook) in any trades around the draft, and for the biggest day - July 1, for free agency and more potential trades. This is a fear I have about adding Chychrun. While I'd like to think Murray would be smarter about this than Regier, I think whatever team drafts Chychrun will face significant temptation to have him in the NHL this year because his physical body is ready for it. I think doing so would be a pretty significant mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Speaking of that... This is a fear I have about adding Chychrun. While I'd like to think Murray would be smarter about this than Regier, I think whatever team drafts Chychrun will face significant temptation to have him in the NHL this year because his physical body is ready for it. I think doing so would be a pretty significant mistake. I don't think Murray would play him unless he truly was ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 1) Has anyone said we don't need outside forward help? I don't believe that's the argument which has been presented. It's simply a matter of extent of help necessary and prioritization (since I think we all agree we're not fixing every hole on the roster this offseason). Anywho... 2) Can they? Sure. I just think it's incredibly less likely. I also think it's more likely than not that Pysyk isn't even here, and if he is here, I'd be shocked to see Bylsma give him the ice time for any improvement to matter. Let me flip it around a little: do you think it's more likely that Jack and Sam meaningfully improve, or our young blue liners? 3) I think you're making the classic oversimplification of forwards=offense. Defensemen play offense too dammit! I really wish I could remember which stats blogger said "The worst thing to ever happen to defensemen was to be named defensemen" because it's so true. I wasn't making a point, I was legitimately asking a question. Last year Risto was first pairing guy, the others were third-pairing. They are all very early in their careers. Can McCabe and Pysyk be good second pairing guys and Risto be a true number one? I think they can. But it's nowhere near as likely as Sam and Jack. This two are sure things, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 But we still need more LHD. Even if McCabe and Pysyk make up a good second pair, we need a top pair LHD. Can't be Gorges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 But we still need more LHD. Even if McCabe and Pysyk make up a good second pair, we need a top pair LHD. Can't be Gorges. Oh, I agree. I believe I am on the record that a first-pairing left D is the single biggest need for this franchise going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Right now we've got: Blank - Ristolainen McCabe - Bogosian Gorges - Pysyk If we don't acquire a LHD, we'd be looking at shifting Pysyk to the left side, and Franson 3rd pair right side. It would never work in a positive way. Oh, I agree. I believe I am on the record that a first-pairing left D is the single biggest need for this franchise going forward. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 My call on the D has always pretty consistently been that if we go: Fowler/Brodin Risto McCabe Bogo Gorges Pysyk With Guhle/Juolevi in the wings to replace Gorges, we'll be fine. But to make that work McCabe and Risto have to be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) See it the same, with possibly Goligoski or Yandle as options beyond Fowler/Brodin. And I'd be good with Chychrun//Sergachev as options besides Juolevi. I can't remember going into an offseason where there was a specific position that we quite literally HAD to add to. If we add Stamkos and no LHD, I guess Stamkos is playing Left D on his off side. Edited June 10, 2016 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 See it the same, with possibly Goligoski or Yandle as options beyond Fowler/Brodin. And I'd be good with Chychrun//Sergachev as options besides Juolevi. I can't remember going into an offseason where there was a specific position that we quite literally HAD to add to. If we add Stamkos and no LHD, I guess Stamkos is playing Left D on his off side. Center for about the last decade ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Oh, I agree. I believe I am on the record that a first-pairing left D is the single biggest need for this franchise going forward. My call on the D has always pretty consistently been that if we go: Fowler/Brodin Risto McCabe Bogo Gorges Pysyk With Guhle/Juolevi in the wings to replace Gorges, we'll be fine. But to make that work McCabe and Risto have to be better. I hope this doesn't come off as playing semantics: what if we can only add a top-4 D, as opposed to a legit top pair? Though I'm not McCabe's biggest fan, it's certainly possible he'd be fine on the 2nd pair if our top pair was truly studly. But what if we have to go the "strong top-4" approach (sort of like what the Rangers looked like before Girardi and Staal dropped off the face of the planet) rather than true top/2nd pair split? I think we have to aim higher for our second pair in that case. Lot of uncertainty there, and a whole ton sitting on Risto's shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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