Eleven Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Thought this might be interesting given the Nolan thread. Again, the poll question is what you think will happen and not what you hope happens. Edited March 29, 2015 by Eleven
Hoss Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Ted Nolan only because you can't surpass 100%
deluca67 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Thought this might be interesting given the Nolan thread. Again, the poll question is what you think will happen and not what you hope happens.Nolan. The Sabres have no need to eat Hodgson's contract right now so I don't see him going anywhere.
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 I think GMTM thinks Hodgson is hot garbage and would have fired Nolan by now if he were going to.
CallawaySabres Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Ted Nolan only because you can't surpass 100% Exactly,he already knows it too
WildCard Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 I think GMTM thinks Hodgson is hot garbage and would have fired Nolan by now if he were going to. Why would he want to have fired Nolan by this point? It would serve have served no purpose
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Why would he want to have fired Nolan by this point? It would serve have served no purpose Keeping him serves no purpose either, no? He's letting Ted shape the team. If he didn't want Ted doing that, he'd fire him.
bunomatic Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Hodgson will be a chip in a trade for a better player known for his drive to succeed. Unfortunately Ted brings no return if he leaves before his contract is up. Hodgson can and will.
Eleven Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Posted March 29, 2015 Hodgson will be a chip in a trade for a better player known for his drive to succeed. Unfortunately Ted brings no return if he leaves before his contract is up. Hodgson can and will. The fair counterpoint to DeLuca's equally fair point about the Sabres not eating Hodgson's contract.
tom webster Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Keeping him serves no purpose either, no? He's letting Ted shape the team. If he didn't want Ted doing that, he'd fire him. What is he shaping? This team will be led by players mostly not here. Ted is gone. There is no doubt in his mind or anyone close to the situation. I have never been a fan but I feel bad that his return has sullied his reputation with some that have always been his supporters, including some of my best friends. For me, his return just confirmed what I always felt about him.
WildCard Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Keeping him serves no purpose either, no? He's letting Ted shape the team. If he didn't want Ted doing that, he'd fire him. True, he did sign him to a three year extension last year. But what other choice did he have? Get another coach for a one year deal? Nolan was already there, knew a lot of the players, was making strides in teaching them the fundamentals....basically he's the perfect coach for a young team. Combine that with the fact that Murray knew what 2015 would be about, a throwaway season, I don't see why Murray would endeavor to hire a coach for one year instead of just keeping Nolan. The length, I would speculate, has to do with Nolan realizing he might just be here for one year. Making it 3 years ensures he at least gets paid, no? And no, Murray signed Nolan to the extension at the end of March in 2014. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/10701935/buffalo-sabres-extend-interim-coach-ted-nolan-contract I posted the above in the Nolan thread. I'm too lazy to retype it so I'll just quote it here.
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 What is he shaping? This team will be led by players mostly not here. Ted is gone. There is no doubt in his mind or anyone close to the situation. I have never been a fan but I feel bad that his return has sullied his reputation with some that have always been his supporters, including some of my best friends. For me, his return just confirmed what I always felt about him. Nolan was brought in to lay a foundation, correct? That's been the line from day one and GMTM has held to it as well. He's done his job with that. Players not here eh? Silly and wrong. You think this whole team is gone this offseason? Wake up and smell the facts. Meszaros, Benoit and the goalies are the only ones on this team that may not be here. That leaves almost the ENTIRE roster left, having been shaped by Nolan. So again, if GMTM is just going to can him, then why let him make the Sabres his team? That's like letting a bad contractor pour your foundation, firing him, and bringing in a completely different guy to build a really nice house on top of a disaster. No one would do that. And GMTM must be smart enough not to do that, correct? I posted the above in the Nolan thread. I'm too lazy to retype it so I'll just quote it here. I get it. You think GMTM's motivation was "well, he can't hurt things". That's garbage logic. No GM let's a coach run a team he's trying to build for a whole year if he doesn't want that team to be influenced by its coach. If GMTM wanted Nolan gone, he'd be gone. He'd have assistant coaches or interim coaches limping the team to the end of the year, knowing that the players will forget all about it when they're gone. You don't like a guy like Nolan entrench himself in the culture of the team. He's a hard guy to remove from a player's mind. Look at all the former Sabres who still respect Ted. He stuck with them well after he was gone. And he's going to stick with the majority of the roster next season whether he's here or not. If we believe that GMTM knows what he's doing, does that make sense?
beerme1 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 What is he shaping? This team will be led by players mostly not here. Ted is gone. There is no doubt in his mind or anyone close to the situation. I have never been a fan but I feel bad that his return has sullied his reputation with some that have always been his supporters, including some of my best friends. For me, his return just confirmed what I always felt about him. Put me in that group. Not impressed with what I see in Ted as much as I was. That may not be fair, but that's where I'm at.
dudacek Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Nolan was here to keep the room together and instill a culture of hard work through a bad season. He's done that well, but coaches don't survive consecutive last-place finishes unless they are extremely tight with management. I doubt he was ever the guy TM saw turning the keys to his real team over to. I like Ted a lot. I hope he is offered a good job as an organizational life coach and I hope he takes it. I don't like Hodgson, but he is not a guy you should sell low on. I agree with Bun and DeLuca: Use him the sweetener to close a big deal with the GM who thinks he can rehabilitate him, or rehabilitate him here then trade him. Edited March 29, 2015 by dudacek
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Nolan was here to keep the room together and instill a culture of hard work through a bad season. He's done that well, but coaches don't survive consecutive last-place finishes unless they are extremely tight with management. I doubt he was ever the guy TM saw turning over the keys to his real team to. I like Ted a lot. I hope he is offered a good job as an organizational life coach and I hope he takes it. I don't like Hodgson, but he is not a guy you should sell low on. I agree with Bun and DeLuca: Use him the sweetener to close a big deal with the GM who thinks he can rehabilitate him, or rehabilitate him here then trade him. This logic is fine as long as you are of the opinion that Nolan has done a good job.
Drunkard Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) I think there's a good chance both are gone. Sure they can eat Hodgson's contract right now but I find it hard to pencil him in anywhere on a mock depth chart in a top 9 role next year, especially if Murray picks up an additional RW through trade or free agency next year but even without doing that I don't see were he fits. They can buy him out now at 1/3 but if they wait they'd have to buy him out at 2/3 after that. Seems foolish to roll the dice and risk that similar to the Kings GM who should have used his amnesty buy out on Richards. I think Nolan is gone for sure if a coach Murray covets becomes available and may be gone regardless but it's a coin flip. He may keep him another year to see if he can get the team performing better with more talent. It's a risk though as Nolan has shown to put certain players in his dog house for a perceived lack of effort. What if Reinhart or McEichel struggle to start the season? What if Kane ends up in his dog house and gets relegated to bottom 6 minutes? In the end I voted for Hodgson because he didn't give him that ridiculous extension and there's more risk on holding on to him. Nolan can be fired at any time if it doesn't work out without cap implications. Edited March 29, 2015 by Drunkard
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 I will go with the write-in vote of neither. Why is that not an official option in your poll, 11?
tom webster Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Nolan was brought in to lay a foundation, correct? That's been the line from day one and GMTM has held to it as well. He's done his job with that. Players not here eh? Silly and wrong. You think this whole team is gone this offseason? Wake up and smell the facts. Meszaros, Benoit and the goalies are the only ones on this team that may not be here. That leaves almost the ENTIRE roster left, having been shaped by Nolan. So again, if GMTM is just going to can him, then why let him make the Sabres his team? That's like letting a bad contractor pour your foundation, firing him, and bringing in a completely different guy to build a really nice house on top of a disaster. No one would do that. And GMTM must be smart enough not to do that, correct? I get it. You think GMTM's motivation was "well, he can't hurt things". That's garbage logic. No GM let's a coach run a team he's trying to build for a whole year if he doesn't want that team to be influenced by its coach. If GMTM wanted Nolan gone, he'd be gone. He'd have assistant coaches or interim coaches limping the team to the end of the year, knowing that the players will forget all about it when they're gone. You don't like a guy like Nolan entrench himself in the culture of the team. He's a hard guy to remove from a player's mind. Look at all the former Sabres who still respect Ted. He stuck with them well after he was gone. And he's going to stick with the majority of the roster next season whether he's here or not. If we believe that GMTM knows what he's doing, does that make sense? Drk, I have always like and respected your opinion. While I know we are on opposite sides here, I'd appreciate a little respect. Anyways, first, I don't buy any of this foundation stuff. He may be helping Tim weed out the players that aren't willing to work and follow rules but that is about it. Look at the last time he left. They were so grief stricken and confused they went to the conference finals the first year and the Cup finals the following year. Secondly, McEichel, Reinhart, Kane, a veteran winger, a veteran defenseman, Pysyk, that is 6 players then you have Bogosian who isn't learning anything new from Nolan and you have more then 35% pf your roster that is missing out on that foundation lesson.
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Nolan gets fired at the end of the season but only if GMTM sees an opportunity to upgrade. If you believe that Nolan will be fired because of his team's performance, then you believe that GMTM has no idea how to build a hockey team, because no GM deliberately keeps a coach around if he believes that coach is harming the players or the team. The tank is no excuse for that. Nolan wasn't kept here to make the team lose, and if you believe that then you're a delusional fool. Nolan will only be fired in order to upgrade to a coach GMTM covets. His performance is irrelevant, and to assume otherwise is to assume GMTM is incompetent. Drk, I have always like and respected your opinion. While I know we are on opposite sides here, I'd appreciate a little respect. Anyways, first, I don't buy any of this foundation stuff. He may be helping Tim weed out the players that aren't willing to work and follow rules but that is about it. Look at the last time he left. They were so grief stricken and confused they went to the conference finals the first year and the Cup finals the following year. Secondly, McEichel, Reinhart, Kane, a veteran winger, a veteran defenseman, Pysyk, that is 6 players then you have Bogosian who isn't learning anything new from Nolan and you have more then 35% pf your roster that is missing out on that foundation lesson. Some of those guys already have that foundation. They don't need it. But to say he wont have a lasting effect on the majority of the roster, which will still be here, doesn't make any sense. You also seem to be arguing that the lessons taught to that late 90s team by Ted were somehow forgotten when Lindy took over. How much of what Ted brought was Lindy able to take advantage of? Lindy surely didn't do it all himself. That team already had its personality and Nolan gave it to them.
WildCard Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 I get it. You think GMTM's motivation was "well, he can't hurt things". That's garbage logic. No GM let's a coach run a team he's trying to build for a whole year if he doesn't want that team to be influenced by its coach. If GMTM wanted Nolan gone, he'd be gone. He'd have assistant coaches or interim coaches limping the team to the end of the year, knowing that the players will forget all about it when they're gone. You don't like a guy like Nolan entrench himself in the culture of the team. He's a hard guy to remove from a player's mind. Look at all the former Sabres who still respect Ted. He stuck with them well after he was gone. And he's going to stick with the majority of the roster next season whether he's here or not. If we believe that GMTM knows what he's doing, does that make sense? It's only garbage logic if you think a coach's only job is instilling a culture into the team. His job is to win games; to come up with schemes and plans to make his team better and to get points along with establishing an identity for his club. IMO, Murray knew Nolan can't do the former, and he didn't want a coach who would win anyways, so he kept him. Can other coaches make this team a playoff team? Of course not, but better coaches could have won more, and that would have ruined the tank. Add that to what you're saying about Nolan, how good he is at instilling a culture of respect and work ethic, and it's a win-win for Murray. There is literally no benefit to firing Nolan before this point, at all. He will be gone in the summer for a better coach. Edit: delusional fools, garbage logic...is this how you debate? I'm not taking any shots at you
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 It's only garbage logic if you think a coach's only job is instilling a culture into the team. His job is to win games; to come up with schemes and plans to make his team better and to get points along with establishing an identity for his club. IMO, Murray knew Nolan can't do the former, and he didn't want a coach who would win anyways, so he kept him. Can other coaches make this team a playoff team? Of course not, but better coaches could have won more, and that would have ruined the tank. Add that to what you're saying about Nolan, how good he is at instilling a culture of respect and work ethic, and it's a win-win for Murray. There is literally no benefit to firing Nolan before this point, at all. He will be gone in the summer for a better coach. No GM does this ever.
WildCard Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Nolan was here to keep the room together and instill a culture of hard work through a bad season. He's done that well, but coaches don't survive consecutive last-place finishes unless they are extremely tight with management. I doubt he was ever the guy TM saw turning the keys to his real team over to. I like Ted a lot. I hope he is offered a good job as an organizational life coach and I hope he takes it. Exactly, thank you. No GM does this ever. Yeah, that's the hardest part of the tank to believe; Murray keeping a coach in who isn't good.
darksabre Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Exactly, thank you. Yeah, that's the hardest part of the tank to believe; Murray keeping a coach in who isn't good. If Murray kept Nolan here on purpose to make the team lose then Murray should be fired for having no idea what he's doing.
WildCard Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 If Murray kept Nolan here on purpose to make the team lose then Murray should be fired for having no idea what he's doing. It wasn't his only reason, but it was, IMO, an added benefit; like I said and you've said, he has instilled a great culture of working hard. Like it or not he chose to tank this team. If you believe Murray should be fired for that, I respect that but we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
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