2015 / 2016 Line Up

[TrueBlueGED]

We can afford Stamkos. I do not believe we can afford Stamkos and also fix the blue line. How much you judge needs to be done to fix the blue line will determine whether you agree with my position.

[tom webster]

We can afford Stamkos. I do not believe we can afford Stamkos and also fix the blue line. How much you judge needs to be done to fix the blue line will determine whether you agree with my position.

I'm not sure we should go after Stamkos either but I disagree that you can't afford both him and a top pair defenseman.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

In my opinion the Sabres need to score more goals.  They are not giving up that many, so if they can score a few more here and there many of the lost games could have been won.

 

Therefore a Stamkos, or similar, is more important, IMO, than fixing the defense, which will be fine given some time.  That said, I also would like a #2 to play with Risto.  I really don't know if we have that on the roster, or in the system right now.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not sure we should go after Stamkos either but I disagree that you can't afford both him and a top pair defenseman.

I think we need two defensemen to play in the top-4.

[That Aud Smell]

I think we need two defensemen to play in the top-4.

I think this is true.

[tom webster]

I think we need two defensemen to play in the top-4.

The only way you add two is if you find someone to take Zack and then you can fit two plus Stamkos. Nobody is paying four guys on the backend over $5M. Unless they find a veteran D with only two years left on deal, then they can afford to re-up Rasmus, acquire 2 D and sign Stamkos f they choose.

On the other hand, I think you get a true #1 LHD and Pysyk and McCabe could develop into a more then adequate 3/4.

Edited March 18, 2016 by tom webster

[dudacek]

I think we need two defensemen to play in the top-4.

And that essentially is where you and I disagree.

 

I think we need a top pairing puck mover.

Bogo is a solid second pairing guy. Gorges can hold the fort in a top four until McCabe and Pysyk push him out.

[TrueBlueGED]

And that essentially is where you and I disagree.

 

I think we need a top pairing puck mover.

Bogo is a solid second pairing guy. Gorges can hold the fort in a top four until McCabe and Pysyk push him out.

Does your opinion on keeping Gorges change if we are in fact required to protect him in an expansion draft?

[TrueBlueGED]

The only way you add two is if you find someone to take Zack and then you can fit two plus Stamkos. Nobody is paying four guys on the backend over $5M. Unless they find a veteran D with only two years left on deal, then they can afford to re-up Rasmus, acquire 2 D and sign Stamkos f they choose.

On the other hand, I think you get a true #1 LHD and Pysyk and McCabe could develop into a more then adequate 3/4.

And nobody is paying four forwards the amount that Stamkos, O'Reilly, Eichel and Reinhart will presumably combine for.

[tom webster]

Does your opinion on keeping Gorges change if we are in fact required to protect him in an expansion draft?

Seriously, you are worried about the expansion draft in two years? Their core guys will either be exempt or protected.

[TrueBlueGED]

Seriously, you are worried about the expansion draft in two years? Their core guys will either be exempt or protected.

It could easily be as soon as next year. But that aside, if we're required to protect Bogosian and Gorges, we will certainly protect Risto, which leaves McCabe and Pysyk (and whoever we add this offseason) exposed. That's brutal.

[tom webster]

It could easily be as soon as next year. But that aside, if we're required to protect Bogosian and Gorges, we will certainly protect Risto, which leaves McCabe and Pysyk (and whoever we add this offseason) exposed. That's brutal.

First, my point remains tge same same, good teams don't lose key players they don't want to lose.

Second, while there is a chance that one team starts in 17/18', there is virtually no chance that they expand by two teams which means they lose one guy, and again it won't be an irreplaceable player.

Third , they should have the assets available to persuade Las Vegas to take the player they want taken

[TrueBlueGED]

First, my point remains tge same same, good teams don't lose key players they don't want to lose.

Second, while there is a chance that one team starts in 17/18', there is virtually no chance that they expand by two teams which means they lose one guy, and again it won't be an irreplaceable player.

Third , they should have the assets available to persuade Las Vegas to take the player they want taken

And I will continue to maintain the economics are different with the elimination of backdiving contracts. If I could get Hossa and Keith caliber players locked up through retirement for a combined $11 million, I'd feel quite a bit differently than I do about cap management.

[dudacek]

Does your opinion on keeping Gorges change if we are in fact required to protect him in an expansion draft?

 

Of course, but that decision is two years away

 

 

And nobody is paying four forwards the amount that Stamkos, O'Reilly, Eichel and Reinhart will presumably combine for.

Minimum of two years away, and six years away before Reinhart and Eichel hit UFA years.

Neither has to get a ROR deal in their second contract. And their RFA years is essentially where we load up to win the cup, making Stamkos baggage worthwhile.

[TrueBlueGED]

Of course, but that decision is two years away

 

Minimum of two years away, and six years away before Reinhart and Eichel hit UFA years.

Neither has to get a ROR deal in their second contract. And their RFA years is essentially where we load up to win the cup, making Stamkos baggage worthwhile.

I'd be shocked if they don't. Unless something goes horribly wrong, they'll both have better careers to that point than Barkov, who just signed $5.9x6. Factor in cap inflation...and yea, there getting ROR deals.

 

Edit: I realize the cap inflation that I myself mentioned can offset some of this. Leave me alone, my team was in the tournament tonight and I'm Irish on St. Patty's day! (I may have been drinking this evening)

Edited March 18, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[dudacek]

Barkov is a great comparable.

I'm OK with Stamkos, ROR, Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, Fowler* Kane Bogo for $50 over the next three to five years.

One or two get moved for futures if Fasching, McCabe, Guhle, Juolevi etc develop behind them.

[Thorner]

The Kings have Kopitar and Muzzin for under face value, and while I don't know Doughty's off the top of my head I'd bet he is cheaper than he should be too

 

And if we can sign Ristolainen to a long term deal this off-season at fair value, he could easily be the "cheaper than he should be" player for us in a few years.

 

Does your opinion on keeping Gorges change if we are in fact required to protect him in an expansion draft?

 

Unfamiliar with all of the proposed rules for the expansion draft, why might we be required to protect Gorges?

 

It could easily be as soon as next year. But that aside, if we're required to protect Bogosian and Gorges, we will certainly protect Risto, which leaves McCabe and Pysyk (and whoever we add this offseason) exposed. That's brutal.

 

If it's a one team expansion we would only be able to lose 1 guy max, according to the rules. I doubt McCabe or Pysyk get poached, and even if they did, it would just be one of them, Can't worry too much about that right now, at least when in terms of how it factors in to a franchise-changing decision like signing a Steven Stamkos.

 

Not saying it's the right call, but possibly losing Mark Pysyk as collateral won't be one of the critical factors at play.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Thorny

[DirtDart]

Is everyone aware of the decline in Stamko's production over the last 2 years?  I am all for bringing in 40-50 goal 40-50 assists Stamkos but I am against 30g 25a Stamkos because honestly his 2 way game is mediocre. 

 

 

I feel like after the season ends we should have the Steven Stamkos Super Thread.

Jack needs a complementary winger like OV has in Backstrom.

[dudacek]

There seems to be this assumption that Stamkos is going to cost $12 million.

Very few teams will think he is worth that much, even fewer can afford to pay him that much.

 

I think the Leafs are the only team that will be willing to top $10 million, and at $10 there will only be a handful of teams still in it.

If he doesn't like TO, then he will probably be choosing between Buffalo, Montreal, The Islanders and Vancouver, unless some other team really guts payroll in June in order to clear space.

[JJFIVEOH]

I wouldn't give him 6. 

[Randall Flagg]

I wouldn't give him 6.

Why not?

[dudacek]

I wouldn't give him 6.

 

60 players have a six million cap hit or higher this season.

Only five have hits of $9 million or more.

[JJFIVEOH]

Why not?

 

He's been in decline for the last two years, he disappears in the playoffs, he's one-dimensional, and this is Jack's team. This team has been in a painful rebuild for three years now, to get to this point where we can now watch our new stars grow up. Bringing in a player that will demand franchise player attention will have a negative effect on the real franchise player. 

 

Several key players will be getting significant pay raises in the near future, there's no reason to go blowing it all on a ridiculous contract. I say take the money and use it to bolster what we have now, not redefine what we have. 

60 players have a six million cap hit or higher this season.

Only five have hits of $9 million or more.

 

Not saying he's not worth 6, I just think the money could be better spent elsewhere. I don't think it would be a good idea to bring him to Buffalo. 

[tom webster]

And I will continue to maintain the economics are different with the elimination of backdiving contracts. If I could get Hossa and Keith caliber players locked up through retirement for a combined $11 million, I'd feel quite a bit differently than I do about cap management.

Sorry, I have been waiting thirty years for the first instance of a well managed team losing a core piece due to salary cap restraints. Teams choose the wrong core, give silly contracts to supplemental players, hold onto other players too long but when has a franchise in one of the major sports lost a star player because they couldn't afford him? Did Hossa and Keith's contracts help? Of course they did but it was just another example of a well managed team using the tools at their disposal.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Not being critical this is a great discussion concerning Stamkos.

 

Everyone needs to keep in mind how many of his goals came ... a cross ice feed from St. Louis and a one timer bullet blast before anybody knew what was happening.

 

When St. Louis left Tampa for NYC ... Stamkos goal numbers went down, in large part because there was no one else to feed him the puck in the same way.  Put Samson, or Eich, in the position of St. Louis and I really think Stamkos will score 40+ for the Sabres.