revisiting an old topic, top players (forward) now?

[mjd1001]

It seems when you watch the NHL on national shows, and certainly when you watch or listen to anything out of Canada (Hockey night in canada, 590 the Fan on the radio), most people still say Sydney Crosby is the best player overall in the league by a lot.  Now, I'm not saying that is or isn't true, but I want to present some arguments why he might not be compared to a few other players, and hear some thoughts form other people. Do you still think Crosby is the best? Or as of right now, would you pick someone else?

 

The case against Crosby (just making it not because I think he isn't the best, but I have to make the case against what seems conventional wisdom)

 

-He only has 1 100+ point season and No 40+ goal seasons in the last 5 years.  Some of that may be due to injury/games missed, but if you can't play because you are injured, that still makes you less valuable.

-In the NHL, he has one cup win, now in his 10th season. He has played with other great players (Malkin is a league MVP) and several high draft picks (many in the top 5 overall).  In that one cup win, they had to beat Ovechkins Capitals in 7 games, and several games (2 or 3 of the 4 wins) had Pittsburgh scoring the winning goals on shot deflections. They won, but it was not decisive at all.

-He is a player that over the last 4 years has averaged 32 goals per 82 games. For his career, it is 39. He has a ton of assists, but, once again, when you play on the PP with Malkin and with several other high draft picks, you will pick up some extra assists each year.

 

The Case for Stamkos:

 

-Except for his rookie year he is a consistent guy who is at (or on pace) for 90-110 points, year after year almost without fail.

-He scores goals. Asssts are great, but there is only 1 goal for every 2 assist, making goals more valuable. He scores 53 per 82 games over the past 4 seasons.

-He has played with some very good players, but not always with several top picks in their prime, like Crosby has.

-I honestly don't know how good his overall D-game is, but I have listed to SEVERAL experts say he puts the effort into backchecking that is very noticable and he always works hard, without taking any shifts off.

 

The Case for Ovechkin:

 

-We know about his D-game that has been criticized, but most people who watch him say he is much better this year with more effort. Even with his lapses, he brings a physical presence and a 'pest' presence that few other top players bring.  +/-, which he as been criticized for...he is a + player for 7 years of his career, and + overall for his career.

-Goals.  Hardest thing to do in the NHL. Scoring almost 52 per 82 games for his career. 5 50+ goal seasons and likely a 6th this year. Adjusted stats (for era) one of the top goal scorers in NHL history)

-He is a clutch player scoring. He does not disappear in the playoffs. In 58 games he has 31 goals and 30 assists. That is a 82 game pace of 44 goals and 43 assists, against playoff teams.

-He might be the only player in the NHL that at times is unstoppable,when he wants to be.  Crosby can be taken off his game (see how frustrated he gets when shadowed by a really good checker, like against Columbus.)  Ovechkin, however, still has the ability to score 1 on 2, and even though you know that one-timer is coming on the Power play, few teams, if any, can stop it.

 

You can throw John Tavares or one of a couple other forwards into the mix also. 

 

But here is my question....Crosby...Stamkos...Ovechkin...Tavares......if you were a coach of an NHL team, which of those players...right now at this point of their career...would scare you the most to face?  Who do you want to avoid in a playoff series?  If you were to face a team like Detroit of Boston in the Playoffs (a team without a top 5 player at forward now) which of the above players would you LEAST like to see on a team like that...that you have to face?

[dudacek]

Gut reaction answer is Crosby, and I think it's because he is the only one with a cup.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I will go with the write-in candidate ... Malkin.

[Randall Flagg]

I will go with the write-in candidate ... Malkin.

i love Geno but I believe that Crosby gets much harder competition and much more defensive zone starts, along with worse linemates, and still outperforms him in every statistical measure, and by more than a little bit. I think Malkin is the second or third best player in the world, but I believe Crosby will hold the title of best until McDavid or Mackinnon or someone else takes the title from him as he ages.

 

How have you been NS? Hope everything is going well!

Edited March 21, 2015 by Randall Flagg

[Sabres Fan in NS]

i love Geno but I believe that Crosby gets much harder competition and much more defensive zone starts, along with worse linemates, and still outperforms him in every statistical measure, and by more than a little bit. I think Malkin is the second or third best player in the world, but I believe Crosby will hold the title of best until McDavid or Mackinnon or someone else takes the title from him as he ages.

 

How have you been NS? Hope everything is going well!

 

Where is Crosby whenever his home town needs him?  He should be here with his shovel.

 

Thanks for asking.  We are hanging in there, ya know.

 

This is a lot of snow.  There is a real risk of our roof leaking, or even collapsing from the weight of the ice and snow.  There is quite a bit of snow expected today and then that will switch over to rain this evening ... with no place for all the water to go there will be flooding ... and then back to snow and then it will all freeze over as the temp drops again.

 

Basically, we are screwed and there is not much we can do about it.

[SwampD]

Where is Crosby whenever his home town needs him?  He should be here with his shovel.

 

Thanks for asking.  We are hanging in there, ya know.

 

This is a lot of snow.  There is a real risk of our roof leaking, or even collapsing from the weight of the ice and snow.  There is quite a bit of snow expected today and then that will switch over to rain this evening ... with no place for all the water to go there will be flooding ... and then back to snow and then it will all freeze over as the temp drops again.

 

Basically, we are screwed and there is not much we can do about it.

My parents filled stockings with rock salt (I'm sure there are better ice melt alternatives) and chucked them up on their roof. It not only melted the snow on the roof but kept the gutters free of ice dams as well.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

My parents filled stockings with rock salt (I'm sure there are better ice melt alternatives) and chucked them up on their roof. It not only melted the snow on the roof but kept the gutters free of ice dams as well.

 

That's a good idea, thanks.

 

The problem is that right now I can't close enough to the house to throw anything up on the roof.

[TrueBlueGED]

Crosby is still the best, and I still don't think it's close. Nobody has the on-ice impact he does, from possession and scoring chances to teammates' shooting percentages, to individual production. He really is in a class of his own.

[French Collection]

I'll take Jonathan Toews because of his all round game. He may not be explosive like Sid but he does everything really well and has leadership qualities in spades and has been on winning teams at every level. Sid gets credit for Canada's Gold medal in 2010 but Toews was named Canada's best forward, outscored Sid and led in +/-. He also has two Cups and a Conn Smythe in one of them. When Sid was named Captain of Team Canada in 2014 he called Toews to ask if he was OK with it. RESPECT!

[Randall Flagg]

Where is Crosby whenever his home town needs him?  He should be here with his shovel.

 

Thanks for asking.  We are hanging in there, ya know.

 

This is a lot of snow.  There is a real risk of our roof leaking, or even collapsing from the weight of the ice and snow.  There is quite a bit of snow expected today and then that will switch over to rain this evening ... with no place for all the water to go there will be flooding ... and then back to snow and then it will all freeze over as the temp drops again.

 

Basically, we are screwed and there is not much we can do about it.

Oh man, stay safe up there. Hope everything gets better quick.

[deluca67]

OV, after a slow start he is tearing NHL goal-tending up. A couple of seasons ago there were grumblings that OV was on the decline. Back to back 50 goal seasons will put that to rest. I like Crosby and love Stamkos, right "now" OV is taking things to another level.

[Randall Flagg]

OV, after a slow start he is tearing NHL goal-tending up. A couple of seasons ago there were grumblings that OV was on the decline. Back to back 50 goal seasons will put that to rest. I like Crosby and love Stamkos, right "now" OV is taking things to another level.

I agree with this, Ovechkin was off my radar after cooling way down for a season or two, but he has come roaring back and does need to be in the discussion. Personally I have him 2 and Geno 3 probably, but I can hear arguments that as of today Ovechkin is the best.

[ubkev]

I love my Russian players. OV

[mjd1001]

Interesting to read everyones thoughts.  I forgot totally about Toews.  

 

As I said on the original topic, I might lean toward Crosby, but I think that is because I have been 'conditioned' to think he is because that is what all the 'experts' say.  Some of those 'experts' are starting to say that Toews might actually be overtaking Crosby though.

 

With my eyes from what I see as a casual fan, I would fear Ovechkin and Stamkos more...and Ovechkin probably tops that list. It just seems to me that this year, you can be playing the Caps and outplaying them, then out of no-where Ovechkin goes and scores a couple and you lose.

 

Malkin is interesting. His points/production aren't too far off from Crosby on the same team...but I hear just about EVERY year that the Pens have a better record when Malkin plays and Crosby is hurt than the other way around, so that is certainly something that goes for Malkin and against Crosby.

[Randall Flagg]

I love stamkos as well but this year he's not even the best player on his team.

[Drunkard]

Based on age I'd take Stamkos but if injuries and age were not part of the equation I take Crosby. Ovechkin is awesome but I place too much value on the center position to name a winger a the best or most desirable player.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Drunkard

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Oh man, stay safe up there. Hope everything gets better quick.

 

Thanks.  I appreciate that.  You're a good kid (I don't mean that to sound bad ... anyone under 30 is a kid to me).

 

Well, my wife heard a loud crashing sound when I was outside talking with a friend who had stopped by to see what was up.

 

Called our roofer (we are having the roof redone in May ... if the snow is gone).  There is a large (well the roofer says small ... to us it's large) stress fracture in our bedroom ceiling.  It is along the main support beam, which is where something like this is supposed to happen ... by design.  It is from the weight of the snow and ice.  Our roofer stakes his professional reputation, which is very good, on his feeling that our roof will hold.  It may leak, which it did a bit already a while ago, bit won't collapse.

 

We hope he is right, but we are safe and sound and if something bad happens so long as we are fine I won't really care.  The house is fixable.

[Doohicksie]

Ovi is the man.  If I had to pick one, he would be it.  Offensively he's got such a great, great, GREAT shot.  And he plays an honest physical game (as opposed to Crosby who's a cheap shot weasel dirty player who screams like a baby when it comes back his way).  Stamkos is good too, but there is just something about Ovechkin that makes me want him on my team.

And has been stated upthread, Ovi is much more responsible defensively this year.