How far should the fans go?

[darksabre]

They aren't cheering against the team. They aren't. They are not rooting for the Sabres to fail. They are all genuinely rooting for what they believe to be the thing that will bring them closer to a championship within the rules of the game and the spirit in which those rules have been played for at least 2 decades. I wouldn't boo the saves, but I do not question their sense sportsmanship, sabres fandom, nor intelligence of the people who do.

It's shameful and they should throw themselves off the skyway.

[Weave]

They aren't cheering against the team. They aren't. They are not rooting for the Sabres to fail. They are all genuinely rooting for what they believe to be the thing that will bring them closer to a championship within the rules of the game and the spirit in which those rules have been played for at least 2 decades. I wouldn't boo the saves, but I do not question their sense sportsmanship, sabres fandom, nor intelligence of the people who do.

 

LOL  I think you covered all of the talking points.

[LastPommerFan]

LOL  I think you covered all of the talking points.

 

was there a memo? I may have missed it, but I'm glad I'm toeing the appropriate line. I'm more comfortable here than the "you are all terrible people because of this one thing, kill yourselves" camp. That camp didn't even have s'mores.

[biodork]

They aren't cheering against the team. They aren't. They are not rooting for the Sabres to fail. They are all genuinely rooting for what they believe to be the thing that will bring them closer to a championship within the rules of the game and the spirit in which those rules have been played for at least 2 decades. I wouldn't boo the saves, but I do not question their sense sportsmanship, sabres fandom, nor intelligence of the people who do.

I tried to make it clear in my post that I wasn't attacking the tank mentality or fanship (although I've gone on record elsewhere that I disagree with it); I'm talking specifically about vocally rooting for the away team at FNC. That's what I find abhorrent. You think the players don't notice these things? You think this helps GMTM's cause if he wants to re-sign Neuvirth in July, after Neuvirth already stated he disliked the idea of tanking? You think Kane and Bogosian won't notice? Or any other UFA Murray wants to pursue this summer? It's assinine and I'm embarrassed that people are doing it.

Edited March 23, 2015 by biodork

[LastPommerFan]

I tried to make it clear in my post that I wasn't attacking the tank mentality or fanship (although I've gone on record elsewhere that I disagree with it); I'm talking specifically about vocally rooting for the away team at FNC. That's what I find abhorrent. You think the players don't notice these things? You think this helps GMTM's cause if he wants to re-sign Neuvirth in July, after Neuvirth already stated he disliked the idea of tanking? You think Kane and Bogosian won't notice? Or any other UFA Murray wants to pursue this summer? It's assinine and I'm embarrassed that people are doing it.

 

My post is to suggest that people attempt to practice some empathy with the "cheer the loss" folks.

 

Do you believe that these players don't understand what is going on? I think the players know exactly what is going on, I think they understand where the fans are coming from.

[biodork]

My post is to suggest that people attempt to practice some empathy with the "cheer the loss" folks.

 

Do you believe that these players don't understand what is going on? I think the players know exactly what is going on, I think they understand where the fans are coming from.

I have no empathy. Cheer the loss silently if you must attend home games, or don't go. I'm sure the players do know what's going on, but it still has to feel like the fans have turned against them and it doesn't help. Appearances matter when it comes to UFAs who have to choose Buffalo vs. draft picks who have no say. But if we want to continue being a franchise that signs Ville Leino instead of Brad Richards, then by all means, go for it.

[LastPommerFan]

I have no empathy. Cheer the loss silently if you must attend home games, or don't go. I'm sure the players do know what's going on, but it still has to feel like the fans have turned against them and it doesn't help. Appearances matter when it comes to UFAs who have to choose Buffalo vs. draft picks who have no say. But if we want to continue being a franchise that signs Ville ###### Leino instead of Brad Richards, then by all means, go for it.

 

I can't think of a single UFA that has selected a new team "because of the fans", can you?

 

There were, maybe, 6 players on the ice last game that you actually care what they think. I'm sure it gets to them on some level. I'm also 100% certain that all will be forgotten by the second week in october when 100% of the fans are pulling in the same direction.

[biodork]

I can't think of a single UFA that has selected a new team "because of the fans", can you?

 

There were, maybe, 6 players on the ice last game that you actually care what they think. I'm sure it gets to them on some level. I'm also 100% certain that all will be forgotten by the second week in october when 100% of the fans are pulling in the same direction.

It's not at all uncommon to hear newly signed players talk about a great hockey town and great fans as reason why they're excited to play somewhere. If it were all about $, we'd have signed Brad Richards. And there are plenty of injured players witnessing the nonsense who factor into our long-term plans (Gorges, Bogosian, Kane, Girgensons, Johnson?). We'll have to agree to disagree, because you're not going to change my opinion on this topic. Edited March 23, 2015 by biodork

[LastPommerFan]

It's not at all uncommon to hear newly signed players talk about a great hockey town and great fans as reason why they're excited to play somewhere. If it were all about $, we'd have signed Brad Richards. And there are plenty of injured players witnessing the nonsense who factor into our long-term plans (Gorges, Bogosian, Kane, Johnson?). We'll have to agree to disagree, because you're not going to change my opinion on this topic.

 

Agreed, there is so much emotion in this shitstorm of a season. I really can't wait for us all to shake hands next fall, get back to normal, and start cheering religiously for goals and victories (and for the GM and Coach to be fired ;)  )

[beerme1]

I tried to make it clear in my post that I wasn't attacking the tank mentality or fanship (although I've gone on record elsewhere that I disagree with it); I'm talking specifically about vocally rooting for the away team at FNC. That's what I find abhorrent. You think the players don't notice these things? You think this helps GMTM's cause if he wants to re-sign Neuvirth in July, after Neuvirth already stated he disliked the idea of tanking? You think Kane and Bogosian won't notice? Or any other UFA Murray wants to pursue this summer? It's assinine and I'm embarrassed that people are doing it.

 

 

I agree with you. All of us are better served by having the mausoleum or library effect going on than creating noise by cheering the visitors. That is just flat out bull and should not happen.

[biodork]

Agreed, there is so much emotion in this shitstorm of a season. I really can't wait for us all to shake hands next fall, get back to normal, and start cheering religiously for goals and victories (and for the GM and Coach to be fired ;)  )

Agreed; I'd much rather have friendly conversations over bourbon about how Cow Lilly must go. ;)

[That Aud Smell]

I was at (most) of the Jersey game (the youngest punked out and wanted to leave before we got to the third (long week)), and I will say: I did not perceive any significant cheering of either NJ goal that was scored while I was there, nor did I hear anyone booing Lindback's efforts to keep the puck out of the net.

 

It was Vogl who wrote about how (significant?) portions of the home crowd are now actively cheering for the tank. Maybe things sound different where John sits -- but that's not what I heard. I would not be surprised that there are a few pockets of people who're getting into that -- but it'd be a small (and, yes, vocal) minority. A trend it would not make. An aberration, in my book.

 

I had some of my kids with me at the game. I carefully explained to them on the way down where the team was, where the season stands, who McEichel is/are, and how people are viewing the balance of the season. It was interesting to me that all of the kids understood what I was saying. They still cheered like mad when Larrrsssonnn (sorry, I can't ever recall how to spell it) appeared to score, but, when we were back in the vehicle, one of older ones remarked, "well, at least they're not losing for nothing."

 

One final remark: I very much resist metaphors that tie the team/franchise to a family dynamic (because the shoe does not fit). That said, there's an apt parallel to be drawn when people ask "should we actively cheer the team's losing when we're at the games?" The answer is, and always will be, "no." As with anything or anyone one cares about, there are times when that thing or person must endure awful times, tests, trials in order to grow. I don't stand by and cheer that suffering. Rather, I stand by, wishing I could intervene and relieve the need to suffer, knowing I cannot and in any case should not. I am generally tight-lipped and vaguely sick about what I'm forced to witness. But, in those situations, I know it is for the best in the long run. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I just have to live through it, and look forward to  . . . yes, Larry Quinn, better days.

 

there are attractive big breasted women in Buffalo?  bull@#!t

 

Hell yeah there are.

Edited March 23, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[rumblefish]

well put Aud, very well put,

Edited March 23, 2015 by rumblefish

[That Aud Smell]

well put Aud, very well put,

 

Thanks. That's a helluva lot better than what my oldest might say in response: TLDR (too long, didn't read).

 

I should've added: There was a kid in our section -- apparently the son of a STH -- who was wearing a NJ Devils shirt. The usher (who clearly knew the family) asked him what that was all about, and the kid said, in effect, that he was wearing it in order to support the tank.

 

Mind you, I never saw the kid or his party cheering for NJ or booing a Lindback save.

[woods-racer]

Thanks. That's a helluva lot better than what my oldest might say in response: TLDR (too long, didn't read).

 

I should've added: There was a kid in our section -- apparently the son of a STH -- who was wearing a NJ Devils shirt. The usher (who clearly knew the family) asked him what that was all about, and the kid said, in effect, that he was wearing it in order to support the tank.

 

Mind you, I never saw the kid or his party cheering for NJ or booing a Lindback save.

Never thought that a group of Sabres fans would actually go to games wearing opposing teams clothes. Personally I have no problem with it, showing support in a different way.

 

Could it be that one section cheered for the Devils is a section that is filled with long standing STH that have known each other for years and are at the ZFG point of fan etiquette? This also happened to be near to where the Buffalo News reporter was sitting?

Edited March 23, 2015 by Woods-Racer

[That Aud Smell]

Could it be that one section cheered for the Devils is a section that is filled with long standing STH that have known each other for years and are at the ZFG point of fan etiquette? This also happened to be near to where the Buffalo News reporter was sitting?

 

It's possible.

 

I mean, there were some cheers when the Devils scored, but nothing that sounded odd to my ear -- there are always fans of the opposing team in the building (or, if not true fans, spoilers/trolls who are cheering for the visitors).

 

On that last point, I've come to conclude that our proximity to southern Ontario results in there being a good number of Canadians in the arena-center on any give night, whose allegiances are fairly fluid. They might be Leafs fans at heart, but, when they're at a Buffalo game, their allegiance might vary from night to night. There are a group of guys I've gotten to know personally who often cheer for the Sabres, but will sometimes cheer for the visitors because one of them has a particular fondness for a particular player (typically a young player) on the visiting team ("I used to work landscaping with this kid's uncle!" sort of stuff).

 

Anyway, like I said: I didn't hear anything that made me think there was a vocal tank crowd in the arena-center on Friday.

[woods-racer]

This is also a year for some very cheap tickets on various web sites.  So there are a lot of "other" fans in the building that normally would not be there, but go because the price is right and cheer for who ever they want to.

 

I get to see the Blackhawks next Friday, all because the Sabres are horrible and the tickets came up and no one else wanted to go. I'm exited because the Sabres are playing one of the best teams in the league in a meaningful game for the Blawkhawks, so I expect an entertaining night.

 

 I have no Idea what to expect atmosphere wise, and think it will be a pro Blawkhawks crowd, and if it is it will be more fun than the funeral atmosphere as of late. 

[Doohicksie]

You buy your ticket you can cheer however you want.

[That Aud Smell]

You buy your ticket you can cheer however you want.

 

Indeed.

 

No one's going to deprive anyone else of their God-given right to be an a_sshole. 

[WildCard]

You buy your ticket you can cheer however you want.

But I got mine for free...

[Eleven]

But I got mine for free...

 

You overpaid.

[WildCard]

You overpaid.

:D Probably right though, open bars are a myth Edited March 23, 2015 by WildComrade

[IKnowPhysics]

This is an account of how far I've been willing to go.

 

We're in tank mode. Learn to cope. It's going to be a long season. Instead of expressing an unprecedented amount of vitriolic internet rage, maybe try a new hobby, like liver-crushing alcoholism.

For your health.

 

EMBRACE THE TANK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIe1KtfpDzw

 

We're on a three game winning streak, within four points of second (last), with two games in hand. Completely unacceptable. We need this tank to start crushing it.


I SAID CRUSH IT!




And because it seems like we're finding new ways to get our tank busted up lately, I'm also tasking anti-aircraft and mine sweeping assets to this one.

 

In my mind, we're definitely tanking at least through the end of next season. Trade the UFAs we're not interested in at the deadline. Maximize the 2015 draft picks.

At that point, we can get the geiger counter out and see how much radioactive fallout is left. If it looks all clear, we can crack open the lead-lined doors of our emotional bunkers.

If it still looks like we need even more picks/prospects, etc, then we'll have to get creative. Trading the UFAs we picked up this year and next year. Examining Myers, Ehrhoff, and Weber, etc. Things could get really dark then, especially if the kids aren't ready yet.

 

We're eleven points down with fourteen games to go. The tide of battle has shifted in our favor as we've been regaining ground in recent battles. We are within sight of claiming victory in the long, horrendous Battle of 1314. The Sabres war machine has stepped up production to provide the latest technology at the fastest pace. We are now operating in total war and we will BURN EVERYTHING IN OUR WAY.

ONWARD! ENGAGE FLAME!

 

 

Change the draft lottery odds to discourage tanking, which would ###### us.

 

Imagine watching this season, alone, with no one to joke with about tanking, the benefits of losing, the high draft picks and the trading away of key players, or really any of the brighter side of this god awful ###### mess. Imagine the misery.

As much as this is a place for cheering, criticism, banter, discussion, and general ######offery, it's also a support community for battered fans. Your contributions make it.

Thank you, you princes and princesses of Sabre Nation.

 

Some folks think that the players and coaching staff are locked in some sort of dilemma- try to win and botch the rebuild or try to lose and abandon, at least temporarily, the competitive sportsmanship of the game.

But that's not the case. The players and coaches will -and should- try their hardest to win games. It's what they need to do to justify their jobs. It's what they need to do to entertain fans that spend their hard-earned salaries to go to home games. It's what they need to do maintain a non-toxic, competitive culture in the locker room. It's what they need to do to skate off the ice with their heads held high, knowing they tried. It's what sportsmen need to do.

The players and coaches pushing their effort doesn't mean the tank is lost. It's not the players and coaches that will define the nature of this year's rebuild. Far and away, the person commanding the tank is Tim Murray. Murray has the power over the roster. He commands how much talent ends up on the ice each night. He will make the decision to throttle the available talent.

And why shouldn't he? Every single player in this organization from top to bottom is effectively skating in a year-long tryout to get onto the team that follows this team. Murray should be allowed to, and probably will, take long looks at lots of different personnel arrangements on the active roster. And there are definitely going to be games when those arrangements don't translate into wins. Any move to keep players in Rochester (or Juniors) can be easily justified with the motivation of long term development.

Additionally, he has the ability to gut a significant portion of the team at any point in time before the trade deadline, if he feels it's the best long term move for the organization. Stewart, Stafford, Mitchell, Kaleta, Meszaros, Benoit, Enroth, and Neuvirth are all UFAs. Some of those players, Murray has already attempted to trade. He could subtract some of those players for assets that have absolutely zero return on this year's team record, and whether that move would be made to tank, legitimately better the team, or both, it simply wouldn't matter.

 

Nothing has changed in the past year.  I believe we need to burn it all down to build it back up.

 

The odds of drafting first or second overall -one of two players that have been called generational talents- drop from 100% to 33.5% when we finish 29th instead of 30th.  To finish 29th presents an unacceptable risk to me.  It's clear from the charts that Arizona and Edmonton are challenging our attempt to tank at an unprecedented level.  I dearly wish to not be by either of them after all that we as a fan base have had to endure.  With that generational talent, losses now mean wins later and longer.

 

I will never tell other fans how to cheer, especially fans that pay hard-earned money for tickets.  But be warned, I expect fair treatment.

 

For me, it's time to start cheering for the tank again.

[woods-racer]

IKP, please clarify your stance on where your allegiance is. Are you pro-tank, or anti-tank? You seem to be wavering in your convictions.

[That Aud Smell]

This is an account of how far I've been willing to go.

Good of you to provide such a thorough indexing of your own tank-related message board content.

 

 

I will never tell other fans how to cheer, especially fans that pay hard-earned money for tickets.  But be warned, I expect fair treatment.

 

For me, it's time to start cheering for the tank again.

Fukc's sake, man. Have some sense of decorum. There's nothing to be gained from actively cheering, on an in-arena-center basis, for the team to fail.

 

Do what I did when I was there on Friday -- sit back dispassionately (like some sort of iced Caesar) and quietly root for the right outcome. I think I even tried some Jedi mind trick sh!t at one point.

 

In short, I don't think pro-tank-cheering at the arena-center is entitled to fair treatment.

IKP, please clarify your stance on where your allegiance is. Are you pro-tank, or anti-tank? You seem to be wavering in your convictions.

So much confusion.

Edited March 23, 2015 by That Aud Smell