Murray has eye on top pick — in 2016

[TheMatrix31]

Is it bandwagoning to wait until the team is watchable and likable again to watch them again and immerse myself again and spend money on apparel again or is it simply not wanting to support a team and organization that is losing on purpose? Because it's really hard to feel anything but disgust for this entire franchise top to bottom at the moment, from ownership to upper management to the coaching staff to the roster to the media to the fanbase.

Edited March 15, 2015 by TheMatrix31

[bunomatic]

I couldn't find the interview, but a while ago GMTM said that if the rebuild was just about making the playoffs, he could go out in free agency and sign a bunch of veterans and make the playoffs in seventh or eighth place every year. But that isn't what he's doing. He's building a team that will compete for the top of the league and the Stanley Cup year after year. You can't do that overnight. 

 

That is what makes this rebuild so painful, but so tremendously exciting for the educated and true Sabres fan. We've lived with being "just good enough" for almost our entire hockey lives. Yeah. we made the Stanley Cup Finals in 1999, but without Hasek that team had no place being in the Finals. We've never had a Chicago or a Detroit or a Pittsburgh or Los Angeles type hockey team that gets talked about year after year as one of the most likely teams to win it all. That is what this is about.

 

I look forward to the day where THE SABRES are the team everyone fears, and other fans keep wondering where we keep getting this great talent that we can plug into our lineup and keep winning, and where hockey free agents put Buffalo at the top of their list of destinations because of our culture and our successes. We've always been also-rans. This isn't about just making it - this is about being THE TEAM.

 

I'd rather wait for the ultimate result than be impatient and reactionary and unreasonable and demand successes NOW.

 

I have full trust in Tim Murray and I know we're doing the rebuild the correct way. And I suspect we'll be close to making the playoffs next year as a result of our young players replacing bad ones, adding McEichel and Reinhart and Kane, and a few smart free-agent signings and moves from GMTM this offseason. But I don't expect the President's Trophy - YET. Neither does GMTM. 

 

So, AGAIN, what GMTM meant by his quote was IF we don't make the playoffs next year - and without a more than 40 point leap in the standings in one year, we won't - then we'll have a chance at a top 1, 2, or 3 pick. That is all.

 

And if you don't like it, root for the Lightning or some other team with worse fans.

That was great and I'm with you on this. We've had a taste of being just good enough to make the show. The goal is to be the best.

[thewookie1]

I'd say GMTM isn't saying as much that he desires lottery pick over the playoffs but rather is merely stating that he doubts the team going worst to great in a year. Remember all non playoff teams have a lottery pick, and he is kind of saying he doesn't mind a lottery pick seeing as the lottery exists.

[Weave]

I just don't think a guy intent on deliberately icing a terrible team again does the Kane trade. I just don't. Why trade futures for a 1st liner if your mission is to get good odds to win the lottery? This leads me to believe the literal words that came out weren't exactly what he meant.

 

I have prefaced all my posts here with, this is what GMTM said.  I am hoping his choice of words weren't meant to be taken literally.  The literal interpretation is what has me posting here.

[Randall Flagg]

If they missed out on McDavid and Eichel, I might take one more shot at trying to get Auston Matthews...he's putting up better numbers than Eichel did with the US development team.

 

Sean Day, Jakob Cychrun, Jesse Puljujarvi, Luke Kirwan, Max Jones, Matthew Tkachuk...there's a lot of good talent coming out next year too.

 

I just pray it doesn't come to that. Lol. I (most of us) have waited 2 years for this now...they got Reinhart, now get McDavid and my 2-3 year dream will come true!

 

(Casey Bailey and Matt O'Connor factor into that dream now too...I desperately want them, and feel like it would be two extra first, or at least second, round picks! Lol.)

:sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:

[Stoner]

This thread promises to be a real head-desker because PA and a few others read the quote one way and many other another.

You can't have a good discussion if you can't agree on the premise of that discussion,

Here's another possible underlying source of, for lack of a better word, friction on this board. I think there are many posters here who love the draft, junior hockey, college hockey, rating and discussing prospects and so forth. They seem to relish in the idea of a nice rebuild, even a tank, because it's going to lead to several years of getting ass deep in prospect talk. I mean, they love the Sabres and want them to win, but all in good time. That'll be fun, too.

 

Others, and I am squarely in this camp, wouldn't walk across the street to watch our fourth round pick play a junior game. I don't want to see how the sausage is made. I just want some good sausage. And we're starving for it. It's probably why Murray's quote riled me up. We can't be in the kitchen forever. Hell, it never even had to come to The Tank. It's been four years since Terry took over. These should be our salad days. OK, now I'm actually hungry.

[TrueBlueGED]

I agree with this, but if we're drafting 3rd/4th, choosing one of Marner/Strome/Hanifin as the last major piece of the puzzle is going to be agonizing. You want the best forwards but Hanifin seems much closer to being a "lock" than Marner/Strome. I hope it doesn't come to that.

 

We'd also need to hit a home run with one of our other picks this year. I don't think adding Hanifin/Marner/Strome to what we currently have in the pipeline is enough.

Drafting a defenseman high just scares the crap out of me. This is probably because fewer Dmen are taken high, but it just feels like the bust rate is so much higher. Would we be getting Ekblad or Gudbranson? (Yea, I know, we can do this exercise with forwards too). I do think we need to find a top-4 LHD...I'm just not sure I want it to happen at #3 overall. As is I'd probably lean Strome/Marner at that spot. I'm putting way too much weight on the World Juniors, but I'll never forget Hanifin being kept off the PP. If I'm taking a defenseman at #3, he better be able to play the point effectively.

 

As to needing to hit a home run...I'm not so sure. The reason is that if we miss out on McEichel, I think we're on track to another bottom-5 finish and likely high pick. Another Reinhart or Strome level prospect gets us to where we need to be without hoping we hit elsewhere.

Edited March 15, 2015 by TrueBluePhD

[Weave]

. Another Reinhart or Strome level prospect gets us to where we need to be without hoping we hit elsewhere.

 

Add another 3 seasons to the timeline......

[TrueBlueGED]

Add another 3 seasons to the timeline......

Get out! :p

 

I honestly believe we're getting entertaining hockey next year even if it's not particularly good hockey. Of course, the entertainment value may well depend on the individual, a la PA's apt sausage comparison.

Edited March 15, 2015 by TrueBluePhD

[dudacek]

Here's another possible underlying source of, for lack of a better word, friction on this board. I think there are many posters here who love the draft, junior hockey, college hockey, rating and discussing prospects and so forth. They seem to relish in the idea of a nice rebuild, even a tank, because it's going to lead to several years of getting ass deep in prospect talk. I mean, they love the Sabres and want them to win, but all in good time. That'll be fun, too.

 

Others, and I am squarely in this camp, wouldn't walk across the street to watch our fourth round pick play a junior game. I don't want to see how the sausage is made. I just want some good sausage. And we're starving for it. It's probably why Murray's quote riled me up. We can't be in the kitchen forever. Hell, it never even had to come to The Tank. It's been four years since Terry took over. These should be our salad days. OK, now I'm actually hungry.

 

Good take.

Plus food metaphors always add flavour to the discussion.  :P

 

In the spirit of the thread, what are your thoughts on the Kane trade? Or of Murray's moves in general?

Don't you think trading two prospects and a pick for a pair of 23-year-olds speaks more loudly than your reading of the above quote?

Trading for Gorges?

 

The only players Murray has moved for futures have been pending UFAs, with the exception of Flynn.

I read the latter move as his attempt to clear some space for (better?) prospects, like Larsson.

Edited March 15, 2015 by dudacek

[bunomatic]

Good take.

Plus food metaphors always add flavour to the discussion.  :P

 

In the spirit of the thread, what are your thoughts on the Kane trade? Or of Murray's moves in general?

Don't you think trading two prospects and a pick for a pair of 23-year-olds speaks more loudly than your reading of the above quote?

Trading for Gorges?

 

The only players Murray has moved for futures have been pending UFAs, with the exception of Flynn.

I read the latter move as his attempt to clear some space for (better?) prospects, like Larsson.

This is where I'm at. Pending ufas are only worth what you can get for them so he's done good in that respect. And like Murray has said publicly if he doesn't move them he's done the Sabres a diservice. He's begun to build this team with the Kane/Bogasian trade. I like what I'm seeing.

[Stoner]

Good take.

Plus food metaphors always add flavour to the discussion.  :P

 

In the spirit of the thread, what are your thoughts on the Kane trade? Or of Murray's moves in general?

Don't you think trading two prospects and a pick for a pair of 23-year-olds speaks more loudly than your reading of the above quote?

Trading for Gorges?

 

The only players Murray has moved for futures have been pending UFAs, with the exception of Flynn.

I read the latter move as his attempt to clear some space for (better?) prospects, like Larsson.

I loved the Kane trade. It seemed to signal a quicker build. The quote suggests, to me anyway, something else. I'm a bit discombobulated. We'll know a lot more by the dog days of hockey.

[sicknfla]

If we get McEichel he needs to go out and make one more hockey trade that will bring us a top 6 winger. This may hurt a little in regards to who he might give up. He also needs to go out and sign at least one solid veteran dman. Give me one or two bottom six veteran forwards and Niemi. Now go play hockey and win some games. Have the playoffs be your goal.

 

Draft Strome/Marner and keep it status quo. I hate to say it but we would need another year of bottom feeding hockey to get another top prospect. Let the kids develop another year and add a year to the rebuild.

 

These next 14 games will decide our future. This is why I will be sick to my stomach if we screw this up.

[X. Benedict]

I loved the Kane trade. It seemed to signal a quicker build. The quote suggests, to me anyway, something else. I'm a bit discombobulated. We'll know a lot more by the dog days of hockey.

The only thing it really signals to me is there is no apparent short term solution to the Sabres problems at center.

[SwampD]

The only thing it really signals to me is there is no apparent short term solution to the Sabres problems at center.

Apparently, waiting until next year is short term around here.

[X. Benedict]

Apparently, waiting until next year is short term around here.

We will have true centers, but not necessarily experienced ones.

 

I have no reason to believe this team will be 40 pts better next year.

Playoffs next year would be a great surprise. But there ain't much reason to expect it.

[Bob Malooga]

:sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:

You clearly don't follow that stuff, eh? Because it's true, look up Matthews' stats compared to Eichel's...and he missed this draft class by TWO DAYS! Lol. (That would have made me feel better about the top-3.)

 

"So while the hockey world debates the merits of Connor McDavid vs. Jack Eichel for 2015, you can expect just as much anticipation when it comes to Matthews vs. Puljujarvi (with some Chychrun added into the mix) for next season."

 

"That much is clear with Matthews, who played his youth hockey in Arizona before joining the U.S. National Team Development Program last year. All he has done since is outperform Eichel offensively each step of the way and establish himself as a generational player who can change the course of a game. One scout said at an under-18 Four Nations tournament in Sweden in December, Matthews excelled."

 

"He did things I’ve never seen,” he said. “He was absolutely dominant.'”

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/auston-matthews-or-jesse-puljujarvi-whos-no-1-in-2016/

 

 

The ONLY way I would be able to get over losing out on McEichel...is IF they bring in Casey Bailey AND Matt O'Connor, AND end up with Hanifin AND Strome somehow in the draft. (Get Matt Garbowsky from RIT too.)

 

 

As for this year, the prospects and all that...that's the only thing keeping me interested, is watching the prospects and following their development. If I was not able to do that, or we did not have the kind of prospects we have, I don't think I would be as interested in all of this as I have gotten over the last couple years. I have always been a huge NFL draft nut, since I was a little kid 20+ years ago...but last year was the first time I have ever known a lot about the NHL draft and followed the prospects. If it were not for the Amerks being so close, and being able to watch the OHL/WHL online, college hockey on TV and apps, I don't think I would be as excited as I am about all of this.

 

Why wouldn't you want to watch Hudson Fasching or JT Compher, or Cal Peterson breaking NCAA records (when we have no good goalie prospects to speak of)...it's be a lot of fun to see this stuff. I feel kind of bad for the people who don't want to watch the future of our beloved hockey team grow into their own...I cannot express how much more this has gotten me into all of this. Lol.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Bob Malooga

[Randall Flagg]

You clearly don't follow that stuff, eh? Because it's true, look up Matthews' stats compared to Eichel's...and he missed this draft class by TWO DAYS! Lol. (That would have made me feel better about the top-3.)

 

"So while the hockey world debates the merits of Connor McDavid vs. Jack Eichel for 2015, you can expect just as much anticipation when it comes to Matthews vs. Puljujarvi (with some Chychrun added into the mix) for next season."

 

"That much is clear with Matthews, who played his youth hockey in Arizona before joining the U.S. National Team Development Program last year. All he has done since is outperform Eichel offensively each step of the way and establish himself as a generational player who can change the course of a game. One scout said at an under-18 Four Nations tournament in Sweden in December, Matthews excelled."

 

"He did things I’ve never seen,” he said. “He was absolutely dominant.'”

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/auston-matthews-or-jesse-puljujarvi-whos-no-1-in-2016/

 

 

The ONLY way I would be able to get over losing out on McEichel...is IF they bring in Casey Bailey AND Matt O'Connor, AND end up with Hanifin AND Strome somehow in the draft. (Get Matt Garbowsky from RIT too.)

 

 

As for this year, the prospects and all that...that's the only thing keeping me interested, is watching the prospects and following their development. If I was not able to do that, or we did not have the kind of prospects we have, I don't think I would be as interested in all of this as I have gotten over the last couple years. I have always been a huge NFL draft nut, since I was a little kid 20+ years ago...but last year was the first time I have ever known a lot about the NHL draft and followed the prospects. If it were not for the Amerks being so close, and being able to watch the OHL/WHL online, college hockey on TV and apps, I don't think I would be as excited as I am about all of this.

 

Why wouldn't you want to watch Hudson Fasching or JT Compher, or Cal Peterson breaking NCAA records (when we have no good goalie prospects to speak of)...it's be a lot of fun to see this stuff. I feel kind of bad for the people who don't want to watch the future of our beloved hockey team grow into their own...I cannot express how much more this has gotten me into all of this. Lol.

With all due respect, I absolutely follow prospects, I love to. I watched world juniors specifically for Puljujarvi and Matthews (as well as Hudson and JT), because I know what the big names this year can bring. Puljujarvi is one of my favorite prospects ever, though I do wish he would have capitalized a bit more during the tournament. I've watched Chychrun a few times and I think he could have a similar impact to Ekblad. Would love them both in Buffalo. I was vomiting trying to imagine another year focused at the top of the draft. I'd love the pick if we win the lotto after a fun little playoff run falling just short, but I absolutely am not hoping to land at the top of the draft by losing, that idea is what makes me sick. I don't think that's how it will shake out though. 

[Bob Malooga]

With all due respect, I absolutely follow prospects, I love to. I watched world juniors specifically for Puljujarvi and Matthews (as well as Hudson and JT), because I know what the big names this year can bring. Puljujarvi is one of my favorite prospects ever, though I do wish he would have capitalized a bit more during the tournament. I've watched Chychrun a few times and I think he could have a similar impact to Ekblad. Would love them both in Buffalo. I was vomiting trying to imagine another year focused at the top of the draft. I'd love the pick if we win the lotto after a fun little playoff run falling just short, but I absolutely am not hoping to land at the top of the draft by losing, that idea is what makes me sick. I don't think that's how it will shake out though. 

Touché, appreciate the response and explaining your stance...I was a little confused. And while I don't want to see another season like the last two, I don't want to go through all of this to get Noah Hanifin...I want an elite goal-scorer, and if they miss out this year, go ahead and be good next year...but I hope they entertain trading up for one of those kids, and I wouldn't really care what it took at that point.

 

But, again, I hope it doesn't come to that...I am getting sick of defending moves, and prospects and Murray and Pegula and Reinhart and all the other young players, and Gionta and the trade for Kane...lmao.

 

(As for Cychrun, I think he might end up being better than Ekblad, and that is saying a lot, I know...I just LOVE everything about that kid's game, he's been a man since he was 15 years old...then again, so was Ekblad. Lol)

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Bob Malooga

[Randall Flagg]

Touché, appreciate the response and explaining your stance...I was a little confused. And while I don't want to see another season like the last two, I don't want to go through all of this to get Noah Hanifin...I want an elite goal-scorer, and if they miss out this year, go ahead and be good next year...but I hope they entertain trading up for one of those kids, and I wouldn't really care what it took at that point.

 

But, again, I hope it doesn't come to that...I am getting sick of defending moves, and prospects and Murray and Pegula and Reinhart and all the other young players, and Gionta and the trade for Kane...lmao.

 

(As for Cychrun, I think he might end up being better than Ekblad, and that is saying a lot, I know...I just LOVE everything about that kid's game, he's been a man since he was 15 years old...then again, so was Ekblad. Lol)

 

 

 

 

I can absolutely get behind this, especially if it's Hanifin, I'd love to package some things with Nikita and see what kind of firepower it could bring back. I also would still cross my fingers that the new lottery format helps us out in the (likely, IMO) situation that we miss the playoffs, though perhaps not by much.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

Since today is the day for dissecting Murray statements and this thread got to five pages, I figured we should revisit it.

Murray was asked yesterday if it is the Sabres goal to be a playoff team next year.

 

"I would like to think it is, yes. Can we get the things done this summer? Can we attract the players? Can we make the right trades? I can't answer that today, but I can tell you that we've done our homework, we've laid the groundwork.

 

"We've talked to teams. They know who we like and who we don't like. I assume that our group of young guys, the 22-and-unders, are going to get better every year, so that helps.

 

"But as a general manager and as a scouting staff, we have to find certain pieces that will allow us to be competitive. We're certainly going to put our best effort in that and we'll see what happens. We'll have a better picture on the tenth of July maybe."

 

http://video.sabres....=810733&lang=en

 

Relevant section starts at about 5:30.

 

This, to me, is far and away the most interesting thing our GM said yesterday.

Edited April 19, 2015 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

He also said if things go right we will be a playoff team and something about hoping to be one or that's goal, something like that.

[PotentPowerPlay22]

I dare say the consensus here, and among most fans, is that Tank will be officially over once the Sabres draft McDavid or Eichel (might as well be optimistic). Then Murray is going to try and put a winning team — a playoff team, why not? — on the ice. No more messing around.

 

 

Here is what I believe Murray will do.

 

He has identified a player or two that he likes and he will trade for him(them) near the draft. The problem is that the league GM's now know that he will severely overpay to get the player he wants (based on the over payments he made with trades previously i.e. LA ans WPG)

 

For instance, lets say he likes Ryan O'Reilly from Colorado. He will give up two players, two top prospects or top draft choices to get him. He will pay too much. I believe this is a mistake, but his track record says he will do it.

 

When Murray talked about the Winnipeg trade he said he had to give up a top pick Myers to get two top picks in return (Kane,Bogosian). I saw him give up much more than that, but he sees things through weird glasses.

[LGR4GM]

Here is what I believe Murray will do.

 

He has identified a player or two that he likes and he will trade for him(them) near the draft. The problem is that the league GM's now know that he will severely overpay to get the player he wants (based on the over payments he made with trades previously i.e. LA ans WPG)

 

For instance, lets say he likes Ryan O'Reilly from Colorado. He will give up two players, two top prospects or top draft choices to get him. He will pay too much. I believe this is a mistake, but his track record says he will do it.

 

When Murray talked about the Winnipeg trade he said he had to give up a top pick Myers to get two top picks in return (Kane,Bogosian). I saw him give up much more than that, but he sees things through weird glasses.

see this is why I would be critical of Murray. Is he overpaying and will that continue.

[dudacek]

I want to hear from @fakegorbyportwinestain and some of the others who supported him in this thread about Murray's comments from yesterday.