Grigorenko

[JJFIVEOH]

If Ted Nolan was smart, he would have recognized this team could not win games and done everything in his power to develop the team that was the future.  Instead we get to watch Matt Ellis chip the puck up the boards for 15minutes a night. Also this has nothing whatsoever to do with McEichel. The goal of the season for the coaches should have been to develop players by exposing their weaknesses and then working to correct them.  That type of thing takes time and patience.  Grigorenko needed the year in Rochester no doubt.  He has grown there and I am glad to see it. When he is up with Buffalo Nolan completely misuses him or punishes him for any minor error that is perceived.  That teaches a player nothing other than "I must be perfect or I can't play".  Nolan loves Zemgus, but Reinhart and Grigorenko will never be Zemgus.  As a coach it is literally your job to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your players and find ways to help them succeed and overcome them. I do not believe Ted Nolan has helped any player this season overcome.  Is some of that on the lack of talent, absolutely but not everything.

 

Nolan doesn't have control of who gets called up.  Besides Grigorenko and maybe Larsson, who is currently on this team needs development that won't be gone next year? Zadorov and Risto have progressed nicely,  probably much better than we expected. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[LGR4GM]

Cody, Marcus, Nicolas, Nikita, and Mark.  Those are the players I was specifically thinking of. Also something about how Larsson and Grigorenko got tossed under the bus by Nolan bothered me as well.  

[darksabre]

Cody, Marcus, Nicolas, Nikita, and Mark. Those are the players I was specifically thinking of. Also something about how Larsson and Grigorenko got tossed under the bus by Nolan bothered me as well.

I thought everyone on your list was handled appropriately this season.

[LGR4GM]

I thought everyone on your list was handled appropriately this season.

I guess I don't.  All I know is I am ready for next season.

[WildCard]

I guess I don't.  All I know is I am ready for next season.

You know it's bad when it's March on the Bills' thread is the most exciting thread on SS

[Samson's Flow]

You know it's bad when it's March on the Bills' thread is the most exciting thread on SS

Well to be fair there have been an unprecidented number of trades to start of this NFL year. It's not like we are discussing the merits of Lee Smith...

[JJFIVEOH]

Cody, Marcus, Nicolas, Nikita, and Mark.  Those are the players I was specifically thinking of. Also something about how Larsson and Grigorenko got tossed under the bus by Nolan bothered me as well.  

 

I don't mind players getting thrown under the bus.  If they're not strong enough to deal with it I don't want them on my team. Larsson apparently got the hint, he's been playing well lately,  and Nolan makes sure to mention it. Nolan wants Pysyk up here,  he's had limited time with Pysyk. As far as Cody, he got significantly more playing time than others Nolan benched because of lack of effort. Hodgson won't change if he's not willing to be developed.  

[Doohicksie]

I don't mind players getting thrown under the bus.  If they're not strong enough to deal with it I don't want them on my team. Larsson apparently got the hint, he's been playing well lately,  and Nolan makes sure to mention it. Nolan wants Pysyk up here,  he's had limited time with Pysyk. As far as Cody, he got significantly more playing time than others Nolan benched because of lack of effort. Hodgson won't change if he's not willing to be developed.  

 

That's a pretty short-sighted view.  It's just like others mentioned that Nolan would prefer a team of Girgensons with a Hasek goalie but that that's not being realistic.  Same here:  If players don't respond well to getting called out (at times unfairly), you should throw them away?  Sorry but if a player needs his ego stroked to get him to respond but he doesn't respond well to being torn down, I'm gonna stroke his ego.  To refuse to do that is to throw talent away.

[JJFIVEOH]

That's a pretty short-sighted view.  It's just like others mentioned that Nolan would prefer a team of Girgensons with a Hasek goalie but that that's not being realistic.  Same here:  If players don't respond well to getting called out (at times unfairly), you should throw them away?  Sorry but if a player needs his ego stroked to get him to respond but he doesn't respond well to being torn down, I'm gonna stroke his ego.  To refuse to do that is to throw talent away.

Maybe I shouldn't have said I don't want him on my team. Certainly I'd give them plenty of time to respond to criticism. They're young, as has been mentioned before, they need to know what it feels like to not be coddled. If they go an extended period of time without responding then the team might need to consider moving on without them. Each case is unique. What I was getting at is, it should not be held against Nolan for him telling the media what he thinks about his players. 

[Huckleberry]

I really don't understand this. I have no problem with Nolan's demand for gritty effort. I like it.

And I don't blame Nolan for the Sabres woes. He is a mediocre coach working with a poor roster.

 

My concerns are this: 

* Too many players are underachieving under Nolan: my prime examples are Moulson, Gionta, Stewart, Hodgson — lesser examples are Benny and the Mess.

* With the exception of Zemgus, none of our young guys are improving (Risto, Zadorov, Foligno) or being put in a position to succeed (Grigorenko, Reinhart, Larsson)

* His player usage baffles me at times (Flynn, Meszaros, Gionta on the PP over Zadorov, Grigorenko, Hodgson? Hell it took him a half-year to try Stewart in front of the net). I see Hodgson out there against the Stamkos line. I see Mitchell out there with our goalie pulled.

* His double standards are obvious. He rewards plumbers like Flynn and Mitchell for "effort" while ignoring their (lack of) results. It's a sin if you sit back and watch a play develop, but it's OK to be not good enough, just as long as you "compete."

* In the same vein, he sticks with veterans (Meszaros, Moulson) no matter how poorly they play and benches kids (Grigorenko, Larsson, Zadorov) at their first error.

* We've been outshot drastically virtually every single game and have shown no signs of adjusting our style. Ted's message is simply work harder.

 

Any one of these things can be justified in isolation, but overall it's a troubling picture.

I think Ted is a one-dimensional coach who can only relate to one kind of player. If we give him Hasek in goal and a team of Girgensons, he could challenge for the cup.

 

But I don't think we are rebuilding on that template.

We need a coach who is going to take our young core and maximize their potential.

From what I've seen of Teddy this year, his is not the formula for making it happen and he has shown no signs of adapting his style.

 

Glad im not alone in this :D

[Doohicksie]

What I was getting at is, it should not be held against Nolan for him telling the media what he thinks about his players. 

 

I disagree.  Keep your dirty laundry behind closed doors.

[bunomatic]

And I wonder why more fans aren't holding Nolan accountable?

 

The power play is a chance for the team to manufacture offence, period. PP time is not a reward for working hard. Lack of PP time is not a punishment for not working hard. By not putting the most talented players on the PP, Ted has hurt the team.

 

I blame Hodgson for Hodgson's ###### play. It is Hodgson's fault he is not on the first line and Hodgson's fault he has three goals. The point some seem to ignore is that the fact Hodgson is a waste of skin doesn't absolve Ted of all accountability. He is supposed to help players get better. It would be different if Hodgson was an outlier, but I don't see a lot of players getting better. I see some getting worse.

 

The Nolan boosters (when the season started I was one of them) remind me of Terry Pegula's blind quote about Darcy: "What's he done wrong?"

 

I'll ask again, how many coaches guide their teams to two consecutive DFL finishes and keep their jobs?

I'll answer your last question. Coaches that are put in place where the franchise has one goal which is to come in dead fukcin last. This team wasn't put together to succeed. Why is that so hard to figure out ? We weren't supposed to get better. We were clearly designed to capture the shart. With that in mind what coach could coach this sad sack collection of castoffs to respectability ? I'm not championing Nolan as some sort of saviour. Hell I don't care who coaches this team to respectability. Someone eventually will. But last year and this year wasn't the time for that to happen. So how can you then say fire the coach he hasn't developed any players. He is developing players into players that work for what they get which as he has said and gmtm has said is part of the plan. To use this time to change the culture. I don't care if Budd McPherson coaches this team but for the sake of the future of this team I hope he teaches these kids that hard work rules the day because if everything is given to them we'll be right back to watching a team of players going through the motions. Just my op. 

[inkman]

I don't question Nolan's results, just his methods. He's still in the dark ages, with no concept of how to analyze, utilize or realize any of today's players unless they are effort guys. Guys who only succeed because they Skate hard.

[bunomatic]

Nolan played effort guys over floaters like Hodgson. O.K. thats just plain mean. Does anyone give credence to the fact that the effort guys that were given the quality minutes were also ufa's at seasons end. Maybe it was an evil plan by GMTM and TN to try and raise their value at deadline time by giving them those minutes ? I know, outlandish and diabolical and in hindsight it never did much in what we received in return but this season was all about the future rather than the present. Next season the coach wether its Nolan or Budd McPherson will play the kids and start developing the future stars. 

[LGR4GM]

The more I think about it the more I don't trust Nolan to develop the high end talent we have coming.  Even if I just ignore Grigorenko, I think Nolan has no gosh damn idea how to use Sam Reinhart because Reinhart isn't going to be playing "compete" hockey Nolan style. 

[JJFIVEOH]

I don't question Nolan's results, just his methods. He's still in the dark ages, with no concept of how to analyze, utilize or realize any of today's players unless they are effort guys. Guys who only succeed because they Skate hard.

He's been involved in Juniors and youth hockey for pretty much all his career outside the NHL. Do you really believe this?

[Doohicksie]

gosh damn

 

 

Those are some pretty strong words there, son.

 

 

 

 

 

 

....well one is, anyway.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Neuvichs Perchatka

[inkman]

He's been involved in Juniors and youth hockey for pretty much all his career outside the NHL. Do you really believe this?

100% he's displayed no ability to understand The game. He continually refused to put Hodgson, Grigerenko and Reinhart on any line with Stewart, Ennis, Moulson or Stafford.

[JJFIVEOH]

100% he's displayed no ability to understand The game. He continually refused to put Hodgson, Grigerenko and Reinhart on any line with Stewart, Ennis, Moulson or Stafford.

 

Considering his resumè, I'm going to stick with he knows what's going on. 

[Koomkie]

Fair enough, I can respect those observations.  Me, I don't think it's fair to judge him based on anything that has transpired this season. I don't think it's fair to criticize his player usage because he hasn't had anything to work with. Flynn got big minutes because he was the best option.  This team can't win games based on talent, Nolan has to try and win them based on limiting mistakes. Ellis and Flynn were better options in that case. We don't know if Nolan only has one mold because he hasn't had the opportunity to prove otherwise. He treats the kids differently than the vets because they need to learn early that they won't get rewarded for the mistakes.  Something tells me he knows Mess is a lost cause and only gives him big minutes when necessary.  It's not as easy to bench defenseman as it is forwards.  

I like your post,  I just don't think any coach should be held responsible for this mess. He deserves at least next year to show he can do something with some more talent when Murray will be able to add to the roster.

 

no way he deserves next year. If he is here next year I will,for the first time,question TM. With kane, potentially McEichel, and Reinhart? No way you trust Nolan with them. Buhbye ted. Eff off

[JJFIVEOH]

If Ted does get fired during the offseason, can I pick the next whipping boy? I haven't gotten much say in the matter in the past. I think I've been here long enough to deserve some more responsibility. I nominate myself, I want to be the bus driver. 

 

 

[WildCard]

[JJFIVEOH]

[Taro T]

Nolan played effort guys (ie., Ronan) over floaters like Hodgson Satan . O.K. thats just plain mean. Does anyone give credence to the fact that the effort guys that were given the quality minutes were also ufa's at seasons end. Maybe it was an evil plan by GMTM and TN to try and raise their value at deadline time by giving them those minutes ? I know, outlandish and diabolical and in hindsight it never did much in what we received in return but this season was all about the future rather than the present. Next season the coach wether its Nolan or Budd McPherson will play the kids and start developing the future stars.

Kind of the whole start to the Muckler / Nolan rift.

[DirtDart]

I really don't understand this. I have no problem with Nolan's demand for gritty effort. I like it.

And I don't blame Nolan for the Sabres woes. He is a mediocre coach working with a poor roster.

 

My concerns are this: 

* Too many players are underachieving under Nolan: my prime examples are Moulson, Gionta, Stewart, Hodgson — lesser examples are Benny and the Mess.

* With the exception of Zemgus, none of our young guys are improving (Risto, Zadorov, Foligno) or being put in a position to succeed (Grigorenko, Reinhart, Larsson)

* His player usage baffles me at times (Flynn, Meszaros, Gionta on the PP over Zadorov, Grigorenko, Hodgson? Hell it took him a half-year to try Stewart in front of the net). I see Hodgson out there against the Stamkos line. I see Mitchell out there with our goalie pulled.

* His double standards are obvious. He rewards plumbers like Flynn and Mitchell for "effort" while ignoring their (lack of) results. It's a sin if you sit back and watch a play develop, but it's OK to be not good enough, just as long as you "compete."

* In the same vein, he sticks with veterans (Meszaros, Moulson) no matter how poorly they play and benches kids (Grigorenko, Larsson, Zadorov) at their first error.

* We've been outshot drastically virtually every single game and have shown no signs of adjusting our style. Ted's message is simply work harder.

 

Any one of these things can be justified in isolation, but overall it's a troubling picture.

I think Ted is a one-dimensional coach who can only relate to one kind of player. If we give him Hasek in goal and a team of Girgensons, he could challenge for the cup.

 

But I don't think we are rebuilding on that template.

We need a coach who is going to take our young core and maximize their potential.

From what I've seen of Teddy this year, his is not the formula for making it happen and he has shown no signs of adapting his style.

 

 

I think you hit the issue right on the head (no pun intended).