Grigorenko

[LGR4GM]

From my understanding of the game, Grigorenko had 2-3 shifts with the top line before he was benched and then demoted?  Is that accurate or not?

 

Also, Grigorenko is coming off a serious knee injury.  Perhaps he should have been given more time to actually get up to speed.  

 

Final thought, the Sabres will re-sign him, that shouldn't even be up for question.  I think he will be traded in the offseason btw.  

[Weave]

From my understanding of the game, Grigorenko had 2-3 shifts with the top line before he was benched and then demoted?  Is that accurate or not?

 

Also, Grigorenko is coming off a serious knee injury.  Perhaps he should have been given more time to actually get up to speed.  

 

Final thought, the Sabres will re-sign him, that shouldn't even be up for question.  I think he will be traded in the offseason btw.  

 

Not entirely accurate.  He was briefly demoted to 4th line, but moved back with foligno and Gionta for the remainder of the game.

[LGR4GM]

Not entirely accurate.  He was briefly demoted to 4th line, but moved back with foligno and Gionta for the remainder of the game.

Okay, thank you.  I am still trying to gauge how I feel about Grigorenko.  

[Koomkie]

Foligno and Gionta is not the top line. And Nolan is an idiot. please please please fire him already.

[Weave]

Okay, thank you.  I am still trying to gauge how I feel about Grigorenko.  

 

It's tough without a long look. I saw him in one Amerks game and he and Larsson looked like they could control play whenever they felt like it.  I assume this issue is frequency of feeling like it.  And I have no way to really gauge that.  

 

I expect that if we draft 1/2 then he is trade bait, but if we slide to 3 we probably have to keep him.

Edited March 10, 2015 by weave

[darksabre]

It's tough without a long look. I saw him in one Amerks game and he and Larsson looked like they could control play whenever they felt like it. I assume this issue is frequency of feeling like it. And I have no way to really gauge that.

 

I expect that if we draft 1/2 then he is trade bait, but if we slide to 3 we probably have to keep him.

The thing Grigorenko needs to do is use his hands to make space for himself. We see him do it maybe once a game where he suddenly gets inspired to play keep away. Then he just forgets it. It's not consistently there.

[LGR4GM]

It's tough without a long look. I saw him in one Amerks game and he and Larsson looked like they could control play whenever they felt like it.  I assume this issue is frequency of feeling like it.  And I have no way to really gauge that.  

 

I expect that if we draft 1/2 then he is trade bait, but if we slide to 3 we probably have to keep him.

The question I suppose then is it youth learning the game or something else. If it is youth then Nolan is a fool for not playing him 18minutes a night and letting him learn how to win.  The one thing about Grigorenko is he doesn't strike me is stupid.  I feel like he can and has learned.  

[bunomatic]

Its kind of ironic in a year when GMTM and Ted Nolan have said they want to introduce hard work and accountability into this team that people on this site would rather take the responsibility off the shoulders of players like Grigorenko and Hodgson and blame the coach. Sounds about right. WTF ?

These two players will get it eventually and it will be because they had a coach like Ted Nolan that tried to hold them accountable for their lack of compete. Its about fn time someone tried to change the culture of this franchise. It wasn't going to happen with the likes of Regier behind the wheel.  

[LGR4GM]

I am not taking anything off the shoulders of Grigorenko, but as I have seen Zemgus grow so to did I hope to see Grigorenko.  Occasional call ups and 4th line minutes will not see him grow.  10 games will not see him grow.  I would prefer they not recall him at all and make him come in next year with fire in his belly.  Constant demotion does not help him as much as he does not help himself.  

[bunomatic]

I am not taking anything off the shoulders of Grigorenko, but as I have seen Zemgus grow so to did I hope to see Grigorenko.  Occasional call ups and 4th line minutes will not see him grow.  10 games will not see him grow.  I would prefer they not recall him at all and make him come in next year with fire in his belly.  Constant demotion does not help him as much as he does not help himself.  

My post wasn't directed at you Liger. Many on the board throw blame in the wrong direction imo. Could coach Nolan perhaps do things differently ? Sure he could. There's no sense giving prime icetime to a player unless he learns to play the game the right way as GMTM is so fond of saying and that is what TN is trying to instil. These players and this team in the long run will be better for it when that culture is ingrained in the room. Work for what you get. No exceptions. In a couple of years it'll be these guys holding the new guys accountable.

[TrueBlueGED]

My post wasn't directed at you Liger. Many on the board throw blame in the wrong direction imo. Could coach Nolan perhaps do things differently ? Sure he could. There's no sense giving prime icetime to a player unless he learns to play the game the right way as GMTM is so fond of saying and that is what TN is trying to instil. These players and this team in the long run will be better for it when that culture is ingrained in the room. Work for what you get. No exceptions. In a couple of years it'll be these guys holding the new guys accountable.

One person's accountability is another person's incompetence. Good coaches recognize different players have to be handled differently, and part of being a good coach is being a part time psychologist. It's so easy to say go out and play better and harder and you'll get more time, but that doesn't connect with every player. Ted Nolan doesn't appear to care about tailoring the message or approach to account for individual differences. I think that's a flawed approach.

[qwksndmonster]

It's common knowledge around the league that Nolan is famous for teaching young talent and motivating players. Coaches say it, hockey experts say it, players say it............ No offense to your knowledge on hockey, but I'm going to trust what they say. Hodgson is notorious (based on what hockey experts say) for being uncoachable. I'll stick with the notion that Nolan is not the problem.

 

You and I both have no idea how Nolan will pan out as a coach with talent. But in general if a coach is good with a marginal team chances are he will be better with a good team. 

I'm glad that you and everyone else likes Ted Nolan.

[bunomatic]

One person's accountability is another person's incompetence. Good coaches recognize different players have to be handled differently, and part of being a good coach is being a part time psychologist. It's so easy to say go out and play better and harder and you'll get more time, but that doesn't connect with every player. Ted Nolan doesn't appear to care about tailoring the message or approach to account for individual differences. I think that's a flawed approach.

Ted Nolan made it clear that players wouldn't be rewarded for going through the motions when he discussed Grigorenko being sent back down. That is not a flawed approach. That is how you change the culture of this team. That is how you lay the foundation.  How do you tell a player that works his butt off that the guy that is going through the motions will get the icetime based on what he should be producing not on what he is producing despite a poor work ethic ? Cough cough Hodgson. Hard work and effort is paramount at this point.  Every player at this stage in the teams growth has to know that. Some guys get it, some guys don't.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm glad that you and everyone else likes Ted Nolan.

So am I.

 

http://youtu.be/Pdjgdb-OxY8?t=31s

[...]

Ted Nolan made it clear that players wouldn't be rewarded for going through the motions when he discussed Grigorenko being sent back down. That is not a flawed approach. That is how you change the culture of this team. That is how you lay the foundation. How do you tell a player that works his butt off that the guy that is going through the motions will get the icetime based on what he should be producing not on what he is producing despite a poor work ethic ? Cough cough Hodgson. Hard work and effort is paramount at this point. Every player at this stage in the teams growth has to know that. Some guys get it, some guys don't.

This is called consistency. It's old fashioned to mean what you say, and say what you mean. Nolan is old fashioned and it so grates against the "modern" view.

 

Rob Ray refers to "these new generation players" often...this is what he's talking about. Coddled babies who, eventually, if they hold out long enough, get their way because the "parents" give up.

 

You may not have liked Snape, but without him, Harry Potter wouldn't have won.

[DirtDart]

Can you share the site?  I don't remember Grigorenko ever getting a fair shake.

Can you also link an article where it was reported that he rubbed the vets the wrong way?

He never has. TN loves the Larrson (sp), and Ellis type players. While they are vital to a fourth line, Grigroenko has way more upside then they do. Just IMO. I am tired of Nolan's mismanagement of the p!@ poor team that has been assembled. 

I am not taking anything off the shoulders of Grigorenko, but as I have seen Zemgus grow so to did I hope to see Grigorenko.  Occasional call ups and 4th line minutes will not see him grow.  10 games will not see him grow.  I would prefer they not recall him at all and make him come in next year with fire in his belly.  Constant demotion does not help him as much as he does not help himself.  

This has been his story, That kids confidence has to be shattered at this point.

Edited March 10, 2015 by DirtDart

[Huckleberry]

The way i see it.

 

Grigorenko has no problem on the defensive side of things in the NHL and his fo % can become the best on this team.

I wanted him to be up here for the remainder of the games getting good icetime while getting a feel on how to create more offense.

 

But the way things are going and him not being waiver excempt anymore, they'll sign him and might decide there is no room for him on this team.

Wich would be sad because even as a 3C there might be hope for him.

[X. Benedict]

I'm glad that you and everyone else likes Ted Nolan.

I am hoping we can gift him to Florida.

[Huckleberry]

Also at the start of the year murray said he wanted to see if Grigorenko was a great, good, or bad prospect.

And the only way to do that was give him the 1C job in Rochester and play him in all situations.   And he needed the icetime to make up for the mistakes made with him over last two seasons.

 

I think murray wanted to see how he responded to the icetime he got down in Rochester, and i believe he might think he is a good prospect at this point, but not a great one.

Also with this depleted roster in rochester he should get even more ice time down there.

[TheMatrix31]

At what point do we cut bait with this guy? Is the seemingly-constant headache worth it?

 

Get rid of him and let him be someone else's problem.

[Huckleberry]

At what point do we cut bait with this guy? Is the seemingly-constant headache worth it?

 

Get rid of him and let him be someone else's problem.

 

He is 20 years old, and very talented, you don't just throw that away, unless he is part of getting you a current top 6 NHL player.

[Marvelo]

From my understanding of the game, Grigorenko had 2-3 shifts with the top line before he was benched and then demoted?  Is that accurate or not?

 

Also, Grigorenko is coming off a serious knee injury.  Perhaps he should have been given more time to actually get up to speed.  

 

Final thought, the Sabres will re-sign him, that shouldn't even be up for question.  I think he will be traded in the offseason btw.  

 

I was thinking the same about Grigorenko thrown into the fire after a serious injury. He's a big player too, only 20…and emotionally immature, kind of like Zadorov. Sometimes it takes these players more time to mature and grow into their body. Also look at Tyler Myers now. He's on a team that has its act together, and he has gained confidence, which may be lacking in Grigo, surrounded by this crappy team. He needs to be surrounded with better players to start to approach his potential. Unfortunately, he's not a self-starter like Girgensons or might need more seasoning.

 

In all fairness, Nolan has been saddled with the team with the worst puck possession and scoring in history for 2 years. However, he is no prize either. He was given a chance after NHL exile, fair or not, and he's responded with these two awful seasons. Whether it was in the plan, I don't know. But he has not motivated this team to do anything other than last place. I can see his anger boiling over against some of these players. I don't think I remember a coach who has thrown so many players under the bus in interviews to the press. I'd prefer if he could just keep it in the house but I understand, it's been a long frustrating two seasons. I don't see Nolan returning next year. It's just playing for pride at this point. 

[Doohicksie]

It's just playing for pride at this point. 

 

What pride? The team has none.

[Marvelo]

What pride? The team has none.

touche. it's Nolan's pride,

[3putt]

If the argument is that everyone must earn their keep regardless of circumstance then the rule must be applied to TN as well. His methods do not seem to be producing results in the form of development. Zemgus has gotten more consistent, Rasmus and Nikita not so much. If the talent level is taken into account for TN,then it should also for Grigs.