Grigorenko

[Marvelo]

Claude Julien might be available in the offseason too, you never know.

[Doohicksie]

Claude Julien might be available in the offseason too, you never know.

 

Not a big fan.  Don't hate him either, he's just not who I would pick.  Part if it though is the simple prejudice of the way his face looks.  He seems to be continually thinking "WTF?"

 

[beerme1]

Not a big fan.  Don't hate him either, he's just not who I would pick.  Part if it though is the simple prejudice of the way his face looks.  He seems to be continually thinking "WTF?"

 

 

 

 

To be fair I'm certain I myself would carry that look if I had to peppered with stupid questions from some stupid people.

[Doohicksie]

To be fair I'm certain I myself would carry that look if I had to peppered with stupid questions from some stupid people.

 

I was looking for a pic from behind the bench with that look because that's his game face too.

[beerme1]

I was looking for a pic from behind the bench with that look because that's his game face too.

 

Refs

[JJFIVEOH]

One of the biggest mis conceptions about Nolan is that he works with young players. His issues with Muckler began when he refused to play Satan after Muckler acquired him. He wanted guys like Ed Ronan, Rob Ray, Matt Barnaby, grinders who he perceived had paid their dues in the minors.

Those teams played just like this team is playing. Only two things are different. He doesn't have a hall of fame goalie and the rest of the league has evolved into a puck possession league and guys like Nolan have not. He will never coach again in the NHL.

So Nolan sucked because of one player. So now Nolan sucks because of one player. But, no mention of what Zadorov, Ristolainen, Ennis, Girgensons, Larsson, Deslauriers.........have done. 

 

The Nolan bashing came out of nowhere and now everybody is jumping on the bandwagon because he is the flavor of the week. Who will be the whipping boy if Nolan gets fired? 

Edited March 22, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[DirtDart]

I agree with this completely. I have been trying to give Nolan the benefit of the doubt, but today's game was the final straw in my view. Grigorenko had the least ice time of all players, even less than Matt Ellis. I don't see how 8 minutes of ice time is enough to be able to adequately evaluate Grigs. He needs more of an opportunity to show what he can do. Even if he did struggle mightily in his 8 minutes, I would venture a guess that if he was given a little bit more time, he would have a much better chance to find a groove.

 

There are 11 games left in a season in which all indications point to Tim Murray wanting to shoot for last place. We are dead last right now. Isn't that the time to see what you have in a high potential prospect, even if there are going to be some growing pains in Grigorenko's game?

 

I wonder if Murray agrees with the way Nolan is utilizing him.

My feeling as I, and others have stated; Grigs has been mishandled, and he needs to be played without fear of being benched. When TN took over and told Tyler Myers to just a his game we say a different Myers. The same needs to be done with Grig, I guarantee we will see the player that he really is. Edited March 22, 2015 by DirtDart

[ParkMeadow]

So Nolan sucked because of one player. So now Nolan sucks because of one player. But, no mention of what Zadorov, Ristolainen, Ennis, Girgensons, Larsson, Deslauriers.........have done. 

 

The Nolan bashing came out of nowhere and now everybody is jumping on the bandwagon because he is the flavor of the week. Who will be the whipping boy if Nolan gets fired?

 

The "Nolan bashing" did not come out of nowhere. If anything, it has been a low rumble for some time, only overshadowed by the team's multiple other inadequacies. But he is not a good coach for today's NHL.

Skip the sentimentality over how he was "wronged" half a generation ago. He should be replaced before next season.

[X. Benedict]

So Nolan sucked because of one player. So now Nolan sucks because of one player. But, no mention of what Zadorov, Ristolainen, Ennis, Girgensons, Larsson, Deslauriers.........have done. 

 

 

When Nolan was on the Island, Snow let Nolan go because Nolan really had no time for managing the minutes of rookies like Commuaeu (sp?) Tambellini, and Neilsen. I think the last game of the year of of a meaningless season..., Nolan played Neilsen for one shift fulfilling his professional courtesy to his GM. Kid turned into a pretty good player.

 

I don't think anyone here is going out on a limb by saying this won't end well either.

[North Buffalo]

When Nolan was on the Island, Snow let Nolan go because Nolan really had no time for managing the minutes of rookies like Commuaeu (sp?) Tambellini, and Neilsen. I think the last game of the year of of a meaningless season..., Nolan played Neilsen for one shift fulfilling his professional courtesy to his GM. Kid turned into a pretty good player.

 

I don't think anyone here is going out on a limb by saying this won't end well either.

Yeh that is my biggest problem with Nolan and I like the guy, but he seems to have an aversion if not outright belligerence to working with and developing rookies.  He is great with the veterans, but it is almost like if he doesn't know your game and you are new and not a veteran then you are going to sit no matter what.  It is too bad because I see a system developing for him and the players.  Their breakouts have been a lot better, defensively they are lot stouter, and Grigs looked wonderful getting back on D.  He still seems to lack confidence with the puck moving it up ice on his own.  That has to be Nolan, but his backchecking last night was nice to see and I saw some real speed out of him I didn't know he had.

 

Does anyone think with Trotts there Nolan can change or is he to stubborn to make adjustments and allow some of the younger guys to develop in the NHL.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Fargenov Iceholeski

[bob_sauve28]

I thought he looked good last night

[Eleven]

I thought he looked good last night

 

His tie was straight.

[Taro T]

I think if there is a new coach next year, it indicates that GMTM wants to make the playoffs next year.  BUT if Nolan is behind the bench in October it doesn't necessarily mean another year of Tank.  I think there are two scenarios with Nolan:  One is he really IS that bad.  The other is that he's all-in with GMTM on The Tank and next year he starts coaching for realz.  The advantage of keeping Nolan isn't Nolan himself; it's retaining the other coaching staff.  I don't really want to see Irbe move on, and I think Trottier and Flynn have done good things this season.  I think if you bring in someone from outside, there will be an all-new staff and I think Irbe in particular is the one guy the Sabres should keep.  But I also think he's the one with strongest ties to Nolan.

 

Of course if they land Babcock I'm not so worried about the assistant coaches.

Thus the choice of the word 'may' in the post you were replying to. ;)

 

And in either case, it wouldn't be a tank. It would far more likely be a deadline day purge of UFA's / useful vets that don't fit in long term.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Taro T

[sicknfla]

When Murray made the comment that if he wanted to compete for a playoff spot he just needed to add some veterans etc. That kind of team is a TN team. Get the guys to work hard, sneak into the playoffs and see what happens.

 

The kind of team Murray is building is not a TN type of team. Murray knows it.

 

McEichel determines this. We draft one and a new era starts immediately. TN is gone early summer. No McEichel I think TN stays a little longer.

[JJFIVEOH]

When Nolan was on the Island, Snow let Nolan go because Nolan really had no time for managing the minutes of rookies like Commuaeu (sp?) Tambellini, and Neilsen. I think the last game of the year of of a meaningless season..., Nolan played Neilsen for one shift fulfilling his professional courtesy to his GM. Kid turned into a pretty good player.

 

I don't think anyone here is going out on a limb by saying this won't end well either.

 

Sure it is. This entire thread is focusing on one player using it to trash Nolan. Mismanagement of rookies and young players? Have you noticed there has been little to no mention of what Nolan has done with Ennis, Zadorov, Ristolainen, Girgensons, Deslauriers and Larsson? Of course not, it doesn't fit the narrative. Has there been any mention of how he turned Stewart's season around? Any mention of how Myers was a whole new player under Nolan? Of course not........ The notion that Nolan doesn't work with young players and/or manage them well is ridiculous. For all the things he's done with the young players this year, he's getting trashed for giving Grigorenko 2nd line minutes?

 

And taking Snow's side on the Islanders deal? Outside of this year Snow is a laughing stock, his front office career has been a joke. The only reason New York doesn't think so is because their previous choice was Mike Milbury. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[tom webster]

So Nolan sucked because of one player. So now Nolan sucks because of one player. But, no mention of what Zadorov, Ristolainen, Ennis, Girgensons, Larsson, Deslauriers.........have done.

 

The Nolan bashing came out of nowhere and now everybody is jumping on the bandwagon because he is the flavor of the week. Who will be the whipping boy if Nolan gets fired?

I have been trashing Nolan since he was here the first time. I can't speak for anyone else. If you like him fine but back your reasons with facts. He has no history of working well with young players and in fact has a history of just the opposite.

If you bought in to the blood and guts, hardest working team in hockey, that's fine. I for one one always preferred Lindy beating Philly with speed and guile the year after Ted lost trying to out tough them.

[sicknfla]

Sure it is. This entire thread is focusing on one player using it to trash Nolan. Mismanagement of rookies and young players? Have you noticed there has been little to no mention of what Nolan has done with Ennis, Zadorov, Ristolainen, Girgensons, Deslauriers and Larsson? Of course not, it doesn't fit the narrative. Has there been any mention of how he turned Stewart's season around? Any mention of how Myers was a whole new player under Nolan? Of course not........ The notion that Nolan doesn't work with young players and/or manage them well is ridiculous. For all the things he's done with the young players this year, he's getting trashed for giving Grigorenko 2nd line minutes?

 

And taking Snow's side on the Islanders deal? Outside of this year Snow is a laughing stock, his front office career has been a joke. The only reason New York doesn't think so is because their previous choice was Mike Milbury.

One of TN or Grigs will be gone by our next opening night. Probably both. My guess is Grigs will be in the NHL next year. Nolan won't be.

 

I have confidence in Murray that he will be making the decision on Grigs not Nolan.

 

I still am not sure about Grigs. He has not shown much. We can't argue that. I am fine if Murray adds him to a deal or if he comes back next year and gets another shot. If so, it will be time to put up shut up though. No more excuses.

Edited March 22, 2015 by sicknfla

[JJFIVEOH]

I have been trashing Nolan since he was here the first time. I can't speak for anyone else. If you like him fine but back your reasons with facts. He has no history of working well with young players and in fact has a history of just the opposite.

If you bought in to the blood and guts, hardest working team in hockey, that's fine. I for one one always preferred Lindy beating Philly with speed and guile the year after Ted lost trying to out tough them.

 

Man, don't go there. I've provided a basis to back up my point. I've pointed out just a few players he has made an impact on this year (a point that still is conveniently ignored by others). I've pointed out that Nolan has never had a team full of talent when posters say he can't coach a talented team. Nolan has been involved with juniors to some extent for most of his life. He's been an adviser in junior leagues, he's coached junior teams (and won championships). He's won a Jack Adams and he took the Islanders to the playoffs when they had no business being there. 

 

The only negativity I hear about Nolan is from the BFLO media hacks and the "gang" here on SabreSpace. The general consensus around the hockey world is quite the opposite of everything said on here. Many consider him one of the best guys out there to deal with young players. I'm more inclined to take to heart the opinions of those involved in the business than those on an internet forum who have a beef with him because Grigorenko is only getting 2nd line minutes. 

 

If Nolan is so bad with young players, why do people keep hiring him to work with them? Are the people on this forum that much smarter than the people doing the hiring? I doubt it. People on here say Nolan isn't the right coach for a talented team............ sure that's easy to say when you consider he's never had the benefit of coaching a talented team in the NHL. People on here say Nolan isn't the right coach for an offensive geared team........... sure that's easy to say when you consider he's never had the benefit of coaching an offensively talented team in the NHL. So far the only significant arguments I've heard to support such theories is that Grigorenko is only getting 2nd line minutes, Snow didn't like him, and Hasek wasn't keen on Nolan sleeping with his wife. Of all things he's done with the current young players on the team (not to mention the ones that were traded), these are the best arguments in support of firing Nolan? I'm not even going to mention the fact that Nolan is in the most difficult position of any coach in recent memory because it's so easy to judge Nolan when your boss completely dismantles the team in an attempt to become one of the worst teams in league history. 

[Weave]

Man, don't go there. I've provided a basis to back up my point. I've pointed out just a few players he has made an impact on this year (a point that still is conveniently ignored by others). I've pointed out that Nolan has never had a team full of talent when posters say he can't coach a talented team. Nolan has been involved with juniors to some extent for most of his life. He's been an adviser in junior leagues, he's coached junior teams (and won championships). He's won a Jack Adams and he took the Islanders to the playoffs when they had no business being there. 

 

The only negativity I hear about Nolan is from the BFLO media hacks and the "gang" here on SabreSpace. The general consensus around the hockey world is quite the opposite of everything said on here. Many consider him one of the best guys out there to deal with young players. I'm more inclined to take to heart the opinions of those involved in the business than those on an internet forum who have a beef with him because Grigorenko is only getting 2nd line minutes. 

 

If Nolan is so bad with young players, why do people keep hiring him to work with them? Are the people on this forum that much smarter than the people doing the hiring? I doubt it. People on here say Nolan isn't the right coach for a talented team............ sure that's easy to say when you consider he's never had the benefit of coaching a talented team in the NHL. People on here say Nolan isn't the right coach for an offensive geared team........... sure that's easy to say when you consider he's never had the benefit of coaching an offensively talented team in the NHL. So far the only significant arguments I've heard to support such theories is that Grigorenko is only getting 2nd line minutes, Snow didn't like him, and Hasek wasn't keen on Nolan sleeping with his wife. Of all things he's done with the current young players on the team (not to mention the ones that were traded), these are the best arguments in support of firing Nolan? I'm not even going to mention the fact that Nolan is in the most difficult position of any coach in recent memory because it's so easy to judge Nolan when your boss completely dismantles the team in an attempt to become one of the worst teams in league history. 

 

I think you are forgetting that the Nolan hire was almost universally panned by nearly all of the hockey commentators outside of the Buffalo market.  And, until LaFontaine brought him in, he's been shut out of NHL jobs ever since that NYI gig.  That was a good long time without so much as a sniff at the NHL.  What ever the opposite of respected around the league is, I highly suspect Nolan is that.

 

At the NHL and Olympic levels Nolan has demonstrated an ability to get the most out of lesser talented teams.  I don't really think there are examples where Nolan has shown an ability to develop young NHL players.  He's developed junior players, but that is not the same as developing young NHL'ers.

Edited March 22, 2015 by weave

[tom webster]

Who keeps hiring him? Latvia? He will be out of the NHL next year. He has lost two NHL jobs because of his inability to develop young players. He will lose a third this year. Try and find a top six forward who benefited from Nolan's coaching. The only people who speak highly of him are the old guard, Canadien analyst who still believe blocking shots and hitting win hockey games.

[JJFIVEOH]

I think you are forgetting that the Nolan hire was almost universally panned by nearly all of the hockey commentators outside of the Buffalo market.  And, until LaFontaine brought him in, he's been shut out of NHL jobs ever since that NYI gig.  That was a good long time without so much as a sniff at the NHL.  What ever the opposite of respected around the league is, I highly suspect Nolan is that.

 

At the NHL and Olympic levels Nolan has demonstrated an ability to get the most out of lesser talented teams.  I don't really think there are examples where Nolan has shown an ability to develop young NHL players.  He's developed junior players, but that is not the same as developing young NHL'ers.

At the NHL level he's never had anything but lesser talented teams. Am I missing something here? 

 

I must listen to different commentators than you because most I hear he is being lauded for helping to develop Ristolainen, Zadorov, Girgensons, Deslauriers, Larsson, turning Stewart around, making Ennis more of a leader and a more consistent player. What more do you want at this point? Did Nolan fail to lead a highly talented NHL team somewhere along the lines and I missed it? 

[Weave]

At the NHL level he's never had anything but lesser talented teams. Am I missing something here? 

 

I must listen to different commentators than you because most I hear he is being lauded for helping to develop Ristolainen, Zadorov, Girgensons, Deslauriers, Larsson, turning Stewart around, making Ennis more of a leader and a more consistent player. What more do you want at this point? Did Nolan fail to lead a highly talented NHL team somewhere along the lines and I missed it? 

 

No.  You didn't miss it.  You are correct.  Not a single NHL GM has hired Nolan when they had a talented roster that needed leading.  I'm sure those GM's weren't listening to the commentators you listen to as well.

[tom webster]

At the NHL level he's never had anything but lesser talented teams. Am I missing something here?

 

I must listen to different commentators than you because most I hear he is being lauded for helping to develop Ristolainen, Zadorov, Girgensons, Deslauriers, Larsson, turning Stewart around, making Ennis more of a leader and a more consistent player. What more do you want at this point? Did Nolan fail to lead a highly talented NHL team somewhere along the lines and I missed it?

You didn't miss it because no one in their right mind would hire him to coach a highly talented team which should be the end of the discussion but I'm sure you can find someone else to blame for that. It is kind of appropriate because it's Nolan's MO to blame everyone else as well.

[bunomatic]

Who keeps hiring him? Latvia? He will be out of the NHL next year. He has lost two NHL jobs because of his inability to develop young players. He will lose a third this year. Try and find a top six forward who benefited from Nolan's coaching. The only people who speak highly of him are the old guard, Canadien analyst who still believe blocking shots and hitting win hockey games.

Hitting and blocking shots wins playoff games. Show me a team that doesn't do this and I'll show you a team that won't make the playoffs. 

[JJFIVEOH]

No.  You didn't miss it.  You are correct.  Not a single NHL GM has hired Nolan when they had a talented roster that needed leading.  I'm sure those GM's weren't listening to the commentators you listen to as well.

Yeah, because we all know those situations are a dime a dozen.