Grigorenko

[LGR4GM]

Bc he plays center and the two top producing RWs were traded? 

I have not witnessed Hodgson play much center this season. 

Bc Hodsgon is scoring roughly the same amount even strength as he always has,   

 

Young kids like Grig arent normally give 20 mins of ice time when they are that young, unless they are killing it.  

Okay then why isn't he getting more PP time then?  If his forte seems to be PP scoring then why only 1:18 on average?  Why not more?

[dudacek]

Patty, trying to follow your logic:

Hodgson got 2nd unit PP time early, failed, was taken off the PP and rightfully so.

Girgensons and Moulson got 1st unit PP time early, failed but were kept on the PP all year, and rightfully so because they scored more playing on the 1st and second lines at even strength than Hodgson did on the third and fourth at even strength.

Hodgson and Moulson are the two most proven PP guys on the team, but we won't give Hodgson another shot (or his first shot at the first unit) because he is producing slightly less at even strength than the Mendoza line of Flynn and Mitchell. Moulson keeps his spot because he is slightly above that line.

Do I have it?

 

(And can't believe this will come off to some people as me defending Cody Hodgson.)

[JJFIVEOH]

So now Hodgson's lack of production is Nolan's fault? 

You know you've become the key whipping boy when your whipping boy status trumps that of Hodgson. Flavor of the week.   

Edited March 11, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[LGR4GM]

So now Hodgson's lack of production is Nolan's fault? 

You know you've become the key whipping boy when your whipping boy status trumps that of Hodgson. Flavor of the week.   

You're not really adding anything to the conversation by just sarcastically denouncing those who have questions or have found faults with Nolan's use of players. 

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ligerovich 4GM

[qwksndmonster]

You're not really adding anything to the conversation by just sarcastically denouncing those who have questions or have found faults with Nolan's use of players. 

Everyone's being mean to Ted and it's up to JJ to save him.

[dudacek]

(And can't believe this will come off to some people as me defending Cody ###### Hodgson.)

  

So now Hodgson's lack of production is Nolan's fault?.

 

Bravo! (I hope this was a joke.)

[JJFIVEOH]

Everyone's being mean to Ted and it's up to JJ to save him.

 

Liger,  can you take this one? 

[qwksndmonster]

Take me liger! TAKE ME NOW  :wub:

[LGR4GM]

Everyone's being mean to Ted and it's up to JJ to save him.

 

 

Liger,  can you take this one? 

Look, I am as guilty as anyone for being grumpy at times but there are serious concerns with Nolan's use of players.  I am unsure whether it is Ted or the lack of talent on the roster but I do know that I am uncomfortable going into next year with him as coach. I do not trust Nolan to use Sam Reinhart, Mikhail Grigorenko (if still here), or our 1st round selection in 2015 properly.  

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ligerovich 4GM

[JJFIVEOH]

  

Bravo! (I hope this was a joke.)

 

Pretty much. But some have made that implication. Hodgson had plenty of chances to correct his lack of production. 

[qwksndmonster]

Pretty much. But some have made that implication. Hodgson had plenty of chances to correct his lack of production. 

...playing with McCormick and Deslauriers on the 4th line...

[Samson's Flow]

So now Hodgson's lack of production is Nolan's fault? 

You know you've become the key whipping boy when your whipping boy status trumps that of Hodgson. Flavor of the week.   

 

 

Pretty much. But some have made that implication. Hodgson had plenty of chances to correct his lack of production. 

I'm an unapoligetic Hodgson fanboy. I still think he's a good player.

 

I thought I have done a pretty good job of offering stats and cohesive arguements to back up this position, rather than just shout "OMG Hodgson he's amazeballs. You all be haterzzz"

Pretty much. But some have made that implication. Hodgson had plenty of chances to correct his lack of production. 

Just like Grigorenko has had plenty of chances to show his talent at the NHL level this season.

 

It's a pretty obvious trend with Nolan's player usage and his bias against percieved "skilled" players.

[LGR4GM]

Take me liger! TAKE ME NOW  :wub:

I'm sorry but I have to be faithful to my unsolicited forum crush of chz.  

[Ogre]

Yeah you nailed it. :wallbash:

 

Flynn and Mitchell have a whopping 13 and 17 points compared to Hodgson's 11 this season. That is pretty insignificant considering Flynn and Mitchell were generally playing with "2nd line" talent and had nearly 3 mins a game more ice time. Thats like 4-5 shifts a game.

Hogdson scored at a rate of roughly .177 ppg with 12;59 toi

Mitchell scored at a rate of .255 ppg with 15;20 toi

 

Mitchell scored 78/1000 more ppg with 2;35 more toi per game.

  

 Projected over 82 games Mitchell would have 6.4 more points than Hogdson with 211 more minutes played.

 

 I know Nolan isn't an x and o type of coach but.....cmon.

Edited March 11, 2015 by iTInSn

[LGR4GM]

Hogdson scored at a rate of roughly .177 ppg with 12;59 toi

Mitchell scored at a rate of .255 ppg with 15;20 toi

 

Mitchell scored 78/1000 more ppg with 2;19 more toi per game.

  

 Projected over 82 games Mitchell would have 6.4 more points than Hogdson with 190 more minutes played.

 

 I know Nolan isn't an x and o type of coach but.....cmon.

You should post more and not because you support my point but because I enjoy that type of statistical analyses and extrapolation

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm an unapoligetic Hodgson fanboy. I still think he's a good player.

 

I thought I have done a pretty good job of offering stats and cohesive arguements to back up this position, rather than just shout "OMG Hodgson he's amazeballs. You all be haterzzz"

Just like Grigorenko has had plenty of chances to show his talent at the NHL level this season.

 

It's a pretty obvious trend with Nolan's player usage and his bias against percieved "skilled" players.

 

I'm not a fanboy, but I would like to see Hodgson next year with some better talent. I supported him throughout most of the season and at this point just think this season is a bust for him. 

[Samson's Flow]

Hogdson scored at a rate of roughly .177 ppg with 12;59 toi

Mitchell scored at a rate of .255 ppg with 15;20 toi

 

Mitchell scored 78/1000 more ppg with 2;35 more toi per game.

  

 Projected over 82 games Mitchell would have 6.4 more points than Hogdson with 211 more minutes played.

 

 I know Nolan isn't an x and o type of coach but.....cmon.

Yeah I agree with Liger, this is the type of argument I was looking for.

 

My only rebuttal to your point is that Hodgson's career averages are much higher than .177 ppg, and given the small sample size of his time on ice this year, his ppg average could move closer to his career average given more ice time.

 

His points per game in 2013/14 was .61 (point every 29:41 TOI).

Edited March 11, 2015 by Tchaikovsky по Boyes

[JJFIVEOH]

Look, I am as guilty as anyone for being grumpy at times but there are serious concerns with Nolan's use of players.  I am unsure whether it is Ted or the lack of talent on the roster but I do know that I am uncomfortable going into next year with him as coach. I do not trust Nolan to use Sam Reinhart, Mikhail Grigorenko (if still here), or our 1st round selection in 2015 properly.  

 

Was just looking for you to hold others to the same standards. You called me out for making one comment directed at nobody in particular while not saying a word to the person following me around like a homeless puppy making snide comments every chance he gets. There are few things in life that bother me more than hypocrisy and double standards. 

 

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I just think that most criticism directed his way is unsubstantiated because he has been given nothing to work with. I just don't understand the sudden disdain for him, almost like somebody flipped a switch, or decided to gang up because there's nothing else to talk about. 

[Ogre]

Yeah I agree with Liger, this is the type of argument I was looking for.

 

My only rebuttal to your point is that Hodgson's career averages are much higher than .177 ppg, and given the small sample size of his time on ice this year, his ppg average could move closer to his career average given more ice time.

 

His points per game in 2013/14 was .61 (point every 29:41 TOI).

I should have pointed out that those numbers are from this year. My objective is not to prove Hogdson's worth. I intended to illustrate that Nolan doesn't appear to have a clue what he is doing. Agree or disagree. Numbers don't lie. Myers', Stafford's and Stewart's(talent guys) numbers have all improved post trade. Mitchell's and Flynn's(skate hard grinders) have not. 

[JJFIVEOH]

I should have pointed out that those numbers are from this year. My objective is not to prove Hogdson's worth. I intended to illustrate that Nolan doesn't appear to have a clue what he is doing. Agree or disagree. Numbers don't lie. Myers', Stafford's and Stewart's(talent guys) numbers have all improved post trade. Mitchell's and Flynn's(skate hard grinders) have not. 

 

Sample size and teammates' skill level. Apples vs. steak.

Hogdson scored at a rate of roughly .177 ppg with 12;59 toi

Mitchell scored at a rate of .255 ppg with 15;20 toi

 

Mitchell scored 78/1000 more ppg with 2;35 more toi per game.

  

 Projected over 82 games Mitchell would have 6.4 more points than Hogdson with 211 more minutes played.

 

 I know Nolan isn't an x and o type of coach but.....cmon.

 

None of that takes into consideration their linemates' skill level.

[dudacek]

. I just don't understand the sudden disdain for him, almost like somebody flipped a switch, or decided to gang up because there's nothing else to talk about.

 

Speaking strictly for myself, I started the season a Nolan fan, but as it has gone along, I started to see more and more things that concerned me until I recently reached the conclusion he should be replaced.

 

As to your latter point on nothing else to talk about, there is probably a lot of truth to that.

We're just playing out the string with a skeleton roster, and I am tired of talking about the tank.

[Samson's Flow]

I should have pointed out that those numbers are from this year. My objective is not to prove Hogdson's worth. I intended to illustrate that Nolan doesn't appear to have a clue what he is doing. Agree or disagree. Numbers don't lie. Myers', Stafford's and Stewart's(talent guys) numbers have all improved post trade. Mitchell's and Flynn's(skate hard grinders) have not. 

This is what I have been arguing as well, I just got caught up in my defense of Hodgson's talent that I must have missed it.

 

Bottom line is I think Nolan is playing the wrong players for the designated roles for this hockey team. It doesn't much matter this year as even with the right players in these roles we would still be bad, but going forward I don't trust him to play skilled players in the power play/top line roles and leave the grinder/shutdown roles to the players he favors.

[Ogre]

Sample size and teammates' skill level. Apples vs. steak.

I'm sorry. I need to point out that Mitchell and Flynn went to the more talented team. Shouldn't their numbers improve being surrounded with more talent?  I feel it's more of an indication that Nolan didn't use the talent correctly while Flynn and Mitchel are what they always are. Head down grinders that Nolan loved.(I'm certain he still loves them)

[MattPie]

Speaking strictly for myself, I started the season a Nolan fan, but as it has gone along, I started to see more and more things that concerned me until I recently reached the conclusion he should be replaced.

 

As to your latter point on nothing else to talk about, there is probably a lot of truth to that.

We're just playing out the string with a skeleton roster, and I am tired of talking about the tank.

 

I wonder if it's "well, now that we've shipped half the team team out, Nolan has to give Hodgson a shot, right?" "He's still on the fourth line? WTF."

I'm sorry. I need to point out that Mitchell and Flynn went to the more talented team. Shouldn't their numbers improve being surrounded with more talent?  I feel it's more of an indication that Nolan didn't use the talent correctly while Flynn and Mitchel are what they always are. Head down grinders that Nolan loved.(I'm certain he still loves them)

 

I haven't watched, but I can't believe Mitchell and Flynn are playing on the 2/3 lines on MTL.

[Samson's Flow]

I wonder if it's "well, now that we've shipped half the team team out, Nolan has to give Hodgson a shot, right?" "He's still on the fourth line? WTF."

 

I haven't watched, but I can't believe Mitchell and Flynn are playing on the 2/3 lines on MTL.

Also known as the Phil Varone paradox.