Unforeseen consequences of the tank

[qwksndmonster]

The wookie just posted a good breakdown of what somebody's trade value would be.

 

I must be drunk as , or dead.  (JK Wook, good post  :P )

[MattPie]

The wookie just posted a good breakdown of what somebody's trade value would be.

 

I must be drunk as ######, or dead.  (JK Wook, good post  :P )

 

Based on his analysis (which is solid), I'm thinking we should trade Ennis, Weber, the 2017 2nd from the Wild, and Hackett for Edmonton's RNH. That help? :)

[TrueBlueGED]

So the rationale for Murray buying into Nolan was that Nolan would be a bad fit and a terrible coach and would secure the tank and then be fired after one season?

I'm not sure how much Murray thought Nolan would contribute to the tank, but I've long believed Nolan would be the "fall guy" (and I use that term in the loosest sense since Nolan knew what he was getting into) for another last place finish and Murray would replace him when they wanted to start winning. I suppose we'll know soon enough.

[nfreeman]

It's always darkest before the dawn, but it sure beats living in a world of perpetual dusk, unless of course the sun never rises and you find yourself stuck in permanent midnight, in which case it was a bonehead move to force the clock to midnight over the objections of many level-headed observers who knew there was a high risk of getting stuck there.

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

I'm not sure how much Murray thought Nolan would contribute to the tank, but I've long believed Nolan would be the "fall guy" (and I use that term in the loosest sense since Nolan knew what he was getting into) for another last place finish and Murray would replace him when they wanted to start winning. I suppose we'll know soon enough.

 

FWIW, I thought Nolan wasn't TM's guy, but that Nolan would have a fair shot to prove himself -- which hasn't happened.  I think, as I've said before, that he's gone very shortly after the season ends.

[qwksndmonster]

Based on his analysis (which is solid), I'm thinking we should trade Ennis, Weber, the 2017 2nd from the Wild, and Hackett for Edmonton's RNH. That help? :)

I'm not sold on RNH being enough of an upgrade over Ennis.  I'd prefer to target a two way top-6 player like O'Reilly who would take pressure off Reinhart and McEichel.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kvetch monstrovich

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not sold on RNH being enough of an upgrade over Ennis. I'd prefer to target a two way top-6 player like O'Reilly who would take pressure off Reinhart and McEichel.

Not that I watch Edmonton or anything, but Jonathan Willis has raved this year about RNH's two-way game, saying it's gotten ignored in the tire fire season. So there's that.

[Doohicksie]

Not to mention you can't try to line a guy up and then retain the current coach if you fail...

 

Why not?  Nolan is under contract.  He may not like it, but what's he gonna do?  If he quits he loses his salary.  Better to ride it out and then if he's fired/reassigned, he still gets his contract salary.

Really. You thought of Robert Stack? I think of him a lot.

 

Okay, that checks out.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijr6FdIBYsw

[qwksndmonster]

Not that I watch Edmonton or anything, but Jonathan Willis has raved this year about RNH's two-way game, saying it's gotten ignored in the tire fire season. So there's that.

Let's have a roster entirely made up of top 5 picks.

[Byebye]

I'm not sold on RNH being enough of an upgrade over Ennis.  I'd prefer to target a two way top-6 player like O'Reilly who would take pressure off Reinhart and McEichel.

IMO RNH is twice the player Ennis and Ror are. I would trade both of those guys in a heartbeat for RNH, I'd probably throw in a 2nd and 3rd.

[qwksndmonster]

IMO RNH is twice the player Ennis and Ror are. I would trade both of those guys in a heartbeat for RNH, I'd probably throw in a 2nd and 3rd.

Interesting.  I'll have to watch some Oilers game before the year is over and get a better eye on RNH.

[Byebye]

Interesting.  I'll have to watch some Oilers game before the year and get a better eye on RNH.

Injury prone would be my only real knock on him, although one could argue he was in the NHL when he wasn't matured and that could have something to do with that.

5 of the biggest NHL blowouts of the 21st century

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/712054

(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

 

Maybe one day we will be doing this to teams again!

[North Buffalo]

I forgot about those Red unis not bad what abt blue and gold???

[Swedesessed]

1. Ask Spurs fans if they are still suffering after the 1996 Spurs went 20-62 and landed Tim Duncan #1 overall.

 

2. Ask Colts fans if the 1997 season stings after going 3-13 and then they drafted Peyton Manning in 1998.

 

There are examples of this at a lot of levels. I love this stripdown to the core. It was SOLELY needed. The time will come this summer when it will be obvious this team will be about winning again.

 

Fellow Sabres fans we have come this far only a few weeks left of this madness: Let's go 2-17 over the last 19, guarantee Eichel, and enjoy the progression upward. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by (E5)

[Marvelo]

[MattPie]

1. Ask Spurs fans if they are still suffering after the 1996 Spurs went 20-62 and landed Tim Duncan #1 overall.

 

2. Ask Colts fans if the 1997 season stings after going 3-13 and then they drafted Peyton Manning in 1998.

 

There are examples of this at a lot of levels. I love this stripdown to the core. It was SOLELY needed. The time will come this summer when it will be obvious this team will be about winning again.

 

Fellow Sabres fans we have come this far only a few weeks left of this madness: Let's go 2-17 over the last 19, guarantee Eichel, and enjoy the progression upward. 

 

Hell, ask Colts fans if they're still stinging from 2011 when PM was hurt and they went 2-14 and lucked into Luck. They haven't won it all yet, but they've gone 11-5 every season since.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Injury prone would be my only real knock on him, although one could argue he was in the NHL when he wasn't matured and that could have something to do with that.

5 of the biggest NHL blowouts of the 21st century

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/712054

(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

 

Maybe one day we will be doing this to teams again!

 

wow.  2 of the top 5.  And those don't include the absolute beatings we put on Philly in the regular season and the playoffs when the score was like 9-1 or 8-1.  Great times  :cry:

[Doohicksie]

Injury prone would be my only real knock on him, although one could argue he was in the NHL when he wasn't matured and that could have something to do with that.

5 of the biggest NHL blowouts of the 21st century

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/712054

(via http://thesco.re/theScore_app )

 

Maybe one day we will be doing this to teams again!

 

Best back-to-back beat-downs I remember occurred in the '97 Western Conf. FInals between the Red Wings and Avalanche.  The unusual thing was that Detroit whomped Colorado 6-0, then two nights later, Colorado beat Detroit by the same score.  That was a wild series.

[Sidc3000]

Pens fans have no recollection of tanking because they didn't tank to get Crosby. Sure after the Lemieux years they where some bad teams, but a lot of that had to also do with bankruptcy. They never intentionally gutted their team of competent talent in order to end up in 30th to get Crosby.

 

FACT, it wasn't possible to "TANK" for Crosby because there was no season played the year Crosby was drafted. They literally won the lottery to get him.

 

But believe what you want about how other teams have done what Buffalo is doing right now.....

This is exactly why I hate when people use the Pens to convince others about tanking.  Most teams that are mentioned in a pro-tank argument didn't "tank" on purpose.  They were desimated by various reasons but usually by crappy owners or horrendous management.  This is why it's such a hot button issue with the Sabres right now.  Darcy regier openly anounced that they were gutting the team for one purpose and one purpose only.  I think this is why I hate it as much as I do.  If this was done during the golisano era then it would have been widely accepted as a owner looking at the bottom line and not winning. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I suppose I don't fully understand why people think it's so much worse to deliberately ice a bad team to draft high than to simply get there through sheer incompetence. I'd rather support the team that's excecuting a plan than the team which is rewarded for trying to win but being awful at their job. I generally understand why some find it difficult or impossible to root against their team, but this particular distinction eludes my comprehension.

[Weave]

I suppose I don't fully understand why people think it's so much worse to deliberately ice a bad team to draft high than to simply get there through sheer incompetence. I'd rather support the team that's excecuting a plan than the team which is rewarded for trying to win but being awful at their job. I generally understand why some find it difficult or impossible to root against their team, but this particular distinction eludes my comprehension.

 

Intent.  Seems fairly obvious to me.

[Claude_Verret]

I'm with TrueBlue, to do it with intent is more admirable than through sheer incompetence. It's almost over guys, we tanked hard on purpose, deal with the last 18 games however you wish.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Claude_Verret

[IKnowPhysics]

I'm (as usual, for some reason) also with Blue.  Furthermore, it is as yet undetermined whether an intentional tank of this magnitude is an act of sheer incompetence on a massive scale.  It hasn't been proven to work... yet.

 

If it's proven to not work, we screwed ourselves big time and the righteous will damn us for intentionally losing toward unintentional massive failure.  If it's proven to work, can it really be considered intentional losing if you intentionally end up winning long term?

 

 

Edited March 6, 2015 by IKnowPhysics

[I am Defecting]

 

 

I suppose I don't fully understand why people think it's so much worse to deliberately ice a bad team to draft high than to simply get there through sheer incompetence. I'd rather support the team that's excecuting a plan...

 

I am with you somewhat, but what they have done so far is not impressive part.  

 

I don't like all of congratulations that decision makers get through this phase.

 

Any baboon can tank team.  We have little to show - certainly not wins.

 

Why don't we say "good job," when the job - improvement is done.

 

Perhaps this does not make me most popular girl at the dance, but bitch that says we win it all next year is 100% .

 

I make metaphor:  congratulating Sabres for job done so far is like pre-mature .  Not congratulating them is like foreplay.  

 

It is like an imaginary, I am coming! While reality is just meh. 

I should say it is like fantasy, I am coming!

 

I did premature before editing.

 

Unforeseen consequence of tank.

[Hoss]

Ron Wilson said, when he was asked to tank, it was much harder than winning... I don't think a baboon could do it.

[kas23]

I'm fairly certain the tank is going to bring more fans in than alienate existing ones.

I'm (as usual, for some reason) also with Blue. Furthermore, it is as yet undetermined whether an intentional tank of this magnitude is an act of sheer incompetence on a massive scale. It hasn't been proven to work... yet.

 

Two words for you: Mario Lemieux.