Unforeseen consequences of the tank

[dudacek]

The tank is over guys.

It might take a bit to sink in, but we've sold off every last depreciating asset for futures.

 

As of today, we are officially done.

Every move from here on out will be about making the team better.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Djuda Chekhov

[WildCard]

The tank is over guys.

It might take a bit to sink in, but we've sold off every last depreciating asset for futures.

 

As of today, we are officially done.

Every move from here on out will be about making the team better.

Not yet it ain't. There are still call-ups, or lack thereof, and games to be played. I get your meaning, but I'm not relenting on the tank until April 11th. The lottery will be one of two times I'll have rooted for the Sabres to win something in two years (trades excluded).

[papazoid]

My friend is accountant.  She does taxes.  Every tax season, she does not fail to mention certain thresholds for income, where one would increase their take home, by actually making less.

 

Last year, we were on brink of poverty.  This year, we do things right, make less, and get big reward.  

 

I always want to tell my friend, that it would be better to be outright rich.

 

i would love to pay a million dollars a year in taxes

[smj]

Tanking is a fact of life. How do you think the Colts got Luck? Don't blame a team like Buffalo with few other options. It is the NHL's fault. If you create the correct lottery system with just a slight edge to the worst few records like the NBA does the incentive is gone. Not the Sabres fault the NHL won't have a better system until next year.

Edited March 3, 2015 by smj

[JJFIVEOH]

I've got a much nicer ass than Rihanna. 

[Doohicksie]

I feel empty.  I know better things are in front of us, but I don't see them yet.  I don't want to count on McEichel, and even if we get that pick I don't know what that will really mean.  The personality of the team has once again been altered and I have no idea if I like the new one.  I just want to fast forward to the draft and to training camp.

 

It's almost like grieving.

[sicknfla]

This has sucked. Regardless of where it might end up in a few years we will never get these years back. I have missed good hockey. I have missed getting excited on game day. I have actually started rooting against my favorite team. Is it really worth it. I don't think so.

Edited March 3, 2015 by sicknfla

[dudacek]

Not yet it ain't. There are still call-ups, or lack thereof, and games to be played. I get your meaning, but I'm not relenting on the tank until April 11th. The lottery will be one of two times I'll have rooted for the Sabres to win something in two years (trades excluded).

 

 

This really shows the difference between "the tank" and actual tanking.

The former is about selling off all your present for futures, to acquire a lot of good young talent and to create the benefit of picking high in the draft. The latter is about doing everything in your power to finish last.

 

Obviously, the closer it gets to the end, the more the two align.

But for me they will never be one and the same.

 

"The tank" was always management's job, it was about using the assets we had to put us into a position to be perennial Stanley Cup challengers. It was never about what happens on the ice.

 

The teardown is over. Now it's management's job to use the proceeds to put together something we can proud of. Murray started with Moulson/Gionta/Gorges and took a big step with Kane/Bogosian. The next steps come in June and July.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Djuda Chekhov

[sicknfla]

I feel empty. I know better things are in front of us, but I don't see them yet. I don't want to count on McEichel, and even if we get that pick I don't know what that will really mean. The personality of the team has once again been altered and I have no idea if I like the new one. I just want to fast forward to the draft and to training camp.

 

It's almost like grieving.

I think the reality of it is setting in. With or without McEichel we have a long ways to go.

[WildCard]

This really shows the difference between "the tank" and actual tanking.

The former is about selling off all your present for futures, to acquire a lot of good young talent and to create the benefit of picking high in the draft.

The latter is about doing everything in your power to finish last.

 

Obviously, the closer it gets, the more the two align.

But for me they will never be one and the same.

 

Tanking was always management's job, it was never about what happened on the ice.

Now it's management's job to put together something we can proud of.

It's the difference between a rebuild and a tank for sure. I don't think every rebuild needs to be a tank, but the Sabres were in the most perfect tank scenario I can possibly imagine. I could list why, but I think we all know at this point the reasons pro-tankers have. 

[biodork]

This really shows the difference between "the tank" and actual tanking.

The former is about selling off all your present for futures, to acquire a lot of good young talent and to create the benefit of picking high in the draft. The latter is about doing everything in your power to finish last.

 

Obviously, the closer it gets to the end, the more the two align.

But for me they will never be one and the same.

 

"The tank" was always management's job, it was about using the assets we had to put us into a position to be perennial Stanley Cup challengers. It was never about what happens on the ice.

 

The teardown is over. Now it's management's job to use the proceeds to put together something we can proud of.

  

I think the reality of it is setting in. With or without McEichel we have a long ways to go.

Agreed. This team has been gutted beyond recognition, and has no identity with many roster holes to be filled. I have a hard time picturing us being significantly better next year, regardless of how the offseason plays out.

[Doohicksie]

I think the reality of it is setting in. With or without McEichel we have a long ways to go.

 

Precisely.

[Randall Flagg]

I feel empty.  I know better things are in front of us, but I don't see them yet.  I don't want to count on McEichel, and even if we get that pick I don't know what that will really mean.  The personality of the team has once again been altered and I have no idea if I like the new one.  I just want to fast forward to the draft and to training camp.

 

It's almost like grieving.

I haven't had anything to grieve with this team since Black Sunday. I'm excited for the future, and by what happened today. :) 

[Doohicksie]

  

Agreed. This team has been gutted beyond recognition, and has no identity with many roster holes to be filled. I have a hard time picturing us being significantly better next year, regardless of how the offseason plays out.

 

...and on this deadline day, with Ennis and Zemgus out the last several games, that personality is even further removed.  

 

I do have faith that the Sabres will be much improved next year.  Maybe not playoffs, but better.  For one thing, there will no longer be the ambiguous situation of benefiting from losses.  McEichel or not, from next season on it's gotta be about getting better, not about getting the high draft position.  You may see "transitional" players holding places until the youngins are ready to play in the bigs, but you won't see tank commanders like Messy Balls.  We'll see plenty of mistakes but they'll be more due to the inexperience and enthusiasm of youth and not the fading talent of a journeyman.

 

I think my wish list for next year consists of:  drafting McDavid, resigning Stewart, and hiring Babcock.  The McDavid thing is obvious.  Stewart is a little different.  Obviously if we get McDavid then the tank was worth it, but if Stewart returns it will be a validation (to me, at least) that the end justified the means, that it was okay to tank.  I also liked the chemistry of the Stewart/Girgs/Ennis line, one of the few bright spots this year.  And finally, to signal a new beginning I think the Sabres need that A-list coach.  Nolan is a great underdog story, evern more so if he took us to the promised land, but expecting that to happen just seems unrealistic.  Also bringing in a new, very good, coach sends a clear message that the tank is over.

[Claude Balls]

I think the Sabres will be much better sooner, rather than later. Tons of young talent, hopefully one of the first two picks this year and I also think Murray will bring in the right veterans and coach to round out the team. I have faith!!! There will be no butt hurtness after the Sabres win the Cup in the next three/four years. I remain optimistic of the future for the Buffalo Sabres.

[biodork]

...and on this deadline day, with Ennis and Zemgus out the last several games, that personality is even further removed.  

 

I do have faith that the Sabres will be much improved next year.  Maybe not playoffs, but better.  For one thing, there will no longer be the ambiguous situation of benefiting from losses.  McEichel or not, from next season on it's gotta be about getting better, not about getting the high draft position.  You may see "transitional" players holding places until the youngins are ready to play in the bigs, but you won't see tank commanders like Messy Balls.  We'll see plenty of mistakes but they'll be more due to the inexperience and enthusiasm of youth and not the fading talent of a journeyman.

 

I think my wish list for next year consists of:  drafting McDavid, resigning Stewart, and hiring Babcock.  The McDavid thing is obvious.  Stewart is a little different.  Obviously if we get McDavid then the tank was worth it, but if Stewart returns it will be a validation (to me, at least) that the end justified the means, that it was okay to tank.  I also liked the chemistry of the Stewart/Girgs/Ennis line, one of the few bright spots this year.  And finally, to signal a new beginning I think the Sabres need that A-list coach.  Nolan is a great underdog story, evern more so if he took us to the promised land, but expecting that to happen just seems unrealistic.  Also bringing in a new, very good, coach sends a clear message that the tank is over.

I think this is a big part of my disappointment this season... I expected to see the transitional players and inexperienced youth growing into the beginnings of a new team, but with the exception of that anomolous stretch in Nov. and Ennis, Girgensons, and Risto, the team took a major step back. I agree with you on the need for a new coach, too.

[dudacek]

I'm optimistic too, but Murray needs to play his cards right.

I see an interesting team taking shape: these guys can easily play these roles on a playoff team as soon as next year: 

 

Kane           1C                  1R

Moulson      2C                  Ennis

Foligno        Girgensons    Gionta

Deslauriers  McCormick    Schaller/Larsson

 

Bogosian 1D

Gorges     3D

Pysyk       Weber

 

1G

Johnson

 

The question is how well can we fill in the missing pieces with Ristolainen, Zadorov, Reinhart, Hodgson, Grigorenko, our high first, our deep list of B prospects, our extra picks, or whatever we can leverage from them and (this is the big one) the $30-plus million in cap space we are going to have this summer.

 

More than likely, uncertain goaltending and being too young in too many key positions will leave us on the outside looking in.

But we should at least be worth watching next year. 

If Murray makes the right moves and hires the right coach, and we get lucky with McEichel, it might be more.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Djuda Chekhov

[Doohicksie]

I agree with you on the need for a new coach, too.

 

Not just "a new coach," but the right coach.  Nolan is signed through next season, right?  If the Sabres can't land a Babcock or other A-list coach, it may be better to stick with Nolan than to change for the sake of change (if they can't line up a clear, A-list upgrade).

[thewookie1]

Next year will be alright for Buffalo if they get McEichel. A playoff team no, but if injuries don't plague us and we make a few key signings I can't imagine them being in the bottom five. Already one can guess that Arizona, Carolina, and Toronto will be near the bottom; along with the fact that the salary cap situation will likely create further parity in the league among the non-tanking teams. Based on the season we had this year thus far I can safely assume that next year we will do better solely because our defense will be better and we will likely have an actual first line.

[biodork]

Not just "a new coach," but the right coach.  Nolan is signed through next season, right?  If the Sabres can't land a Babcock or other A-list coach, it may be better to stick with Nolan than to change for the sake of change (if they can't line up a clear, A-list upgrade).

Fair enough; another Rolston-type plug-in certainly wouldn't inspire the same confidence.

[Byebye]

Not just "a new coach," but the right coach. Nolan is signed through next season, right? If the Sabres can't land a Babcock or other A-list coach, it better to stick with Nolan than to change for the sake of change (if they can't line up a clear, A-list upgrade).

Yes, Nolan is signed till the end of the 16-17 season.

I can't wait for Draft day. Not just to see McDavid putting on a Buffalo Jersey, but there will be a lot of trades too. Who knows what Murrays plans are. We might acquire a solid goalie and a solid RW and be a bubble team. Yes break ups are tough, but the future is bright and we have plenty to look forward to! Will we suck next year? Most likely, but hey, when you hit rock bottom, there is only one place to go. I'm looking forward to being able to see this core grow into an NHL powerhouse. Rebuilding will always have its flaws, and it will always be a risk, but you have to risk it to get the biscuit.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Naulter8

[SABRES 0311]

Is cathartic to say so, yes?

 

You listen to Conscience, yes?

 

You disobey Serpent, Rambo, yes?...

 

This is us:

 

not sure how to interpret this but it sounds cool.

[North Buffalo]

Yes, Nolan is signed till the end of the 16-17 season.

I can't wait for Draft day. Not just to see McDavid putting on a Buffalo Jersey, but there will be a lot of trades too. Who knows what Murrays plans are. We might acquire a solid goalie and a solid RW and be a bubble team. Yes break ups are tough, but the future is bright and we have plenty to look forward to! Will we suck next year? Most likely, but hey, when you hit rock bottom, there is only one place to go. I'm looking forward to being able to see this core grow into an NHL powerhouse. Rebuilding will always have its flaws, and it will always be a risk, but you have to risk it to get the biscuit.

My fear with trading Neuvirth and Stewart, and in a couple days i guess i will see its wisdom, is that the what Sabres gave up did not get enough in return...

 

Also sometimes when you get what you want there is always a little buyers remorse, because you are still resentful for being put in this position in the first place.

 

So until April briefly with confirmation or not Tank is successful and June's draft it truly will be tough. At least beer league spring season starts tonite and I can pull a Big Z and just hit someone regardless????

Edited March 3, 2015 by Fargenov Iceholeski

[sicknfla]

I think Murray will have an active draft but this team cannot afford any more 3+ for 1 style trades. What scares me with any ROR style deal is it will take a few current players, prospect, and pick to complete. We just don't have the organizational depth. I would have thought after this massive 2+ year selloff we would have more assets but I just don't see it. Ennis, Bogo, Moulson, Kane, and Gorges are now are vets. Foligno, Deslauriers are guys who could be around for awhile but are not difference makers.

 

Then we have:

 

Girgs/Risto - so far the two best players to come out of this rebuild. Both will have long productive careers and be part of the new core.

 

Zadarov - could go either way. Could be top 4 dman for next 10-15 years. Clearly not mature yet. Will Murray ride it out or lose patience and include him in summer deal?

 

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH IT ON THE BIG CLUB!!

 

Reinhart - should have good/above average career. Do not see superstar talent but should be a rock for next 15 years.

 

Grigorenko - huge question mark that will probably be involved in a future trade.

 

Pysyk/ McCabe - our final two defensive prospects that should be with big team next year.

 

Carrier/Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste/Cornel/Compher - maybe two of these guys become everyday NHL players.

 

Goalie - we have some prospects but nothing to count on.

 

2015 draft - one impact player who is hopefully the superstar that all this tanking has been for. Then a late first and a few seconds to add to our prospect pool that may help a few years down the road. The Islanders having a big year has hurt.

 

So based on that I am not sure how I feel. I know I will feel better this time next year but I am hardly convinced that we have laid down the foundation of a Stanley Cup team.

[SwampD]

Kane is the same age as Foligno and Deslauriers. Bogo is only one year older. We're fine.