Trade: Myers, Stafford, Armia, Lemieux, + Low 1st for Kane, Bogosian, and Kasdorf

[Johnny DangerFace]

I love the makeup of this team.  McEichel, Reinhart, and Girgensons down the middle.  Kane, Ennis, moulson on the wings.  Zad-Risto and Bogo-Pysyk in the top 4.  Our drafting has focused on centers and defense, we just got an extremely talented winger for those centers

Rolling the dice on Kane. I think GMTM paid too much. Frankly, Darcy knew how to wheel and deal better.

 

You are dreaming if you think Darcy goes after Kane or makes a blockbuster like this

Reinhart, Zadorov, Grigorenko, and a 2015 1st for Alex galchenyuk and some dirty laundry.

 

Holy over-reactions batman

[LGR4GM]

Right on.

 

 

Now this is the correct usage of ZFG.

 

 

Absolutely.  This team is crying for an overhaul.

 

 

This too.

 

And for those criticizing the trade:  are you really not looking forward to seeing a top line, starting 8 months from now, featuring Eichel and Kane?

 

The Sabres have been dying for high-end talent at forward.  They just got a guy who GMTM thinks is a no-BS top-line NHL forward.  Would you rather have made like Darcy and waited another 3 years to see whether Armia becomes one?

I am looking forward to this. Just wish Brendan Lemieux was gonna be on the other side. 

[pastajoe]

Rolling the dice on Kane. I think GMTM paid too much. Frankly, Darcy knew how to wheel and deal better.

Bob Corkum? Darcy was too scared to make bold moves when they could have put the team over the top.

[Trettioåtta]

Kane and Bogo both have fairly bad injury histories. That's another concern

[pastajoe]

@MattBarnaby3636: Also hearing that Enroth could end up in Dallas.

[TrueBlueGED]

I find it kind of amazing people are more pissed about Lemieux than Armia. Armia was going to be in the team next year, possibly in the top-6. Lemieux is 3 years away from probably being a 3rd liner. I know why, I just think it's fascinating.

 

I like the trade. I'm not in love with it, but I like it. The fact that so many are in angst makes me think it was a pretty even deal value-wise. The winner ultimately hinges on whether we're getting 2012 or 2014 Evander Kane. IMO this also signals the tank is officially over after this season--next year we try to win some games. To that end, I expect an interesting offseason.

[Eleven]

Right on.

 

 

Now this is the correct usage of ZFG.

 

 

Absolutely.  This team is crying for an overhaul.

 

 

This too.

 

And for those criticizing the trade:  are you really not looking forward to seeing a top line, starting 8 months from now, featuring Eichel and Kane?

 

The Sabres have been dying for high-end talent at forward.  They just got a guy who GMTM thinks is a no-BS top-line NHL forward.  Would you rather have made like Darcy and waited another 3 years to see whether Armia becomes one?

 

There is a pretty solid likelihood that:

 

- Kane is the best player in this trade

- Myers and Bogosian end up having roughly equivalent careers

- Neither Armia, Lemieux nor the #1 pick the Sabres gave up turns into a real difference-maker in the NHL

- Between Stewart and the goalies, the Sabres end up getting more draft picks that turn into respectable assets.

 

Yes, it was expensive.  But that's what it costs. 

 

When was the last time a young forward drafted in the top 4 was traded?  Did it cost less than what the Sabres just paid?

 

 

This is why I never put a name on a jersey.

 

Well.. we will now find out if it was Buffalo.  Winnipeg has quite a few people in the vein of Stafford who are succeeding this year.  You never know.

 

I didn't want Kane, but it seemed as though we were going to get him anyway.  I don't necessarily like what was given up either.  But hoping for Armia and being a fanboi over Lemieux I am not.  So they are gone.  The Sabres in theory advanced their wing by replacing Armia with Kane.

 

They let a prospect go who would not have been in Buffalo next year anyway (Lemieux).

They let Stafford go, who was a non-factor and was leaving anyway.

They let Myers go, who after watching the past few games I wanted gone anyway.  I think the trade talk was bothering him as well.

 

The first? okay.. so there it goes.  They have two more and who knows.. maybe they get one back?

 

It's a bold move that moves the club forward next year.  I'm going to live with it and see what else happens.

 

I agree with you both.  It was a heavy price but it moves the rebuild forward much more quickly than waiting on Armia and Lemieux.  I'm still concerned that one day, we'll be wanting to kill GMTM for trading Myers, but, hey, maybe we won't.

 

This team might actually contend next year.

[LGR4GM]

Buffalo News has the contract numbers for the players traded...

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2015/02/11/sabres-jets-deal-contract-numbers/

[chileanseabass]

I think it's a fair deal.  I like the potential of Armia and Lemieux, but you have to give quality to get quality.  There are a few concerns with Kane, but he's a proven talent, as is Bogosian.  The only proven talent the Sabres gave up was Myers.  It was a steep price to pay, but that was to be expected. This is precisely why you stockpile picks and prospects - so you can make offers no other teams can, and no one would refuse.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ChileanSeaBass

[LGR4GM]

I find it kind of amazing people are more pissed about Lemieux than Armia. Armia was going to be in the team next year, possibly in the top-6. Lemieux is 3 years away from probably being a 3rd liner. I know why, I just think it's fascinating.

 

I like the trade. I'm not in love with it, but I like it. The fact that so many are in angst makes me think it was a pretty even deal value-wise. The winner ultimately hinges on whether we're getting 2012 or 2014 Evander Kane. IMO this also signals the tank is officially over after this season--next year we try to win some games. To that end, I expect an interesting offseason.

Well if we value the trade but who ended up with the best player, right now, today, the Sabres win the trade because Kane is probably better than Myers. 

[CallawaySabres]

Does anybody realize how freaking BAD this team was going to be for at LEAST 2 more years before this deal got done. You want to watch the puke that has already been spit up on the ice over the last 2 seasons? Jesus H, after this year's draft, bringing in a top FA and adding Reinhart/Grigs to the lineup, it may almost be watchable next year.

[PromoTheRobot]

Bob Corkum? Darcy was too scared to make bold moves when they could have put the team over the top.

That's nonsense. Selective memory on your part. Darcy made many more deals where he fleeced the other side than Corkum deals.

[JJFIVEOH]

This... all of this...

 

 

I can't even formulate words as to how much I hate this.

 

Like most major trades we cannot judge it today. Have to give it two years.

 

That said today it feels like I got punched in the balls.

 

And killed my pets and stole my car. 

[nfreeman]

This reminds me of the Pominville trade when everyone said we won the trade with the Wild. A 30 goal scorer for picks and prospects.

 

The prospects haven't done anything. The trade is essentially Pominville for Zadorov and until we know what he is the jury is still out.

 

I think Myers for Bogo is a wash so Kane gets a local whipping boy a 1st and some prospects.

 

Anybody have info on the goalie?

 

Good call.

 

I think people are just undervaluing Kane and Bogosian.  These players take a lot to get

 

This too.

 

We gave up an NHL defenseman (who I think is overrated) and a rental plus three unproven prospects for two established NHL players (both former top-5 picks).  We know Kane and Bogosian can play in the league.  The other pieces (Armia, Lemieux, late 1st) are just gambles of futures.

 

I don't think it is that much of an overpayment, personally.

 

And this.

 

I think people are worried about his on-ice slackitude. All will be well if he just didn't like the Jets for some reason. The big problem starts if he finds something to not like about the Sabres and pulls the same ######. If he does, the Sabres have a two-time slacker and will get significantly less for a trade since GMs will be starting to wise up to his discontent.

 

 

Good idea, I'll start rooting for the Flyers. Wait...

 

Most hockey people don't think this -- they think he plays hard, and his issues are off-ice.

 

Rolling the dice on Kane. I think GMTM paid too much. Frankly, Darcy knew how to wheel and deal better.

 

Ah yes.  The old "winning the trade deadline regardless of the performance of the overall product" meme.  How's that working out for us on the ice?

[JJFIVEOH]

Erg. Wouldn't you rather have real NHL players to talk about next season than more kiddie talk?

Yes, but Kane wasn't what I had in mind. 

[matter2003]

Sabres really wanted Kane and likely had to overpay a little to entice Winnipeg not to wait til the off-season to trade him. What playoff team wanting Kane is going to trade players off their roster for a guy out for the season? Probably none. Sabres had to force the issue, and ended up slightly overpaying, but if they got their guy I'm OK with it...

 

They likely all but sealed their last place finish as well...

[Hoss]

This all came together over texts, calls and the radio as I was driving for an hour and a half, so here are my scattered thoughts:

 

The idea that this is a lot to give up for a player with so many questions (Kane) and a guy who still hasn't found consistent footing in the NHL (Bogosian) is correct. Is it too much? At first glance, probably.

 

But you can weed out Stafford and the first. The first will likely be between 25-30 and Stafford was going for a mid-round pick at best anyways. So it comes down to Myers, Lemieux and Armia for Bogosian and Kane.

Myers and Bogosian are near each other on talent-wise. If they could have a baby it would be one of the best NHL defenseman ever. Myers has the smooth skating and big shot, but he, despite brief flashes, isn't physical and has no clue how to be. The coaching here was never right and it may never be. It might just not be him, but we couldn't afford to keep waiting around for it to happen. So enter Bogosian... He can skate and move the puck, but his strength is the "hard to play against" physical style. If he can play his game consistently he's a lockdown top-four defenseman for the rest of his career.

The difference between Myers and Bogosian is small, so when you add in Kane it swings heavily in the Jets favor. That's where you enter our two prized prospects. Armia and Lemieux. Armia is still a large question mark. He hasn't quite figured out the North American game despite showing plenty of skill in Rochester. Will he EVER be an NHL player? Who knows.

So then there's the better prospect in Lemieux. He was an offensive afterthought when he was drafted, but he's exploded this year. The aspect that can't be ignored is that it's been almost completely on the powerplay. Does that indicate that he doesn't have the skill to make plays when he doesn't have the space? If so, that's not a good sign for his NHL future. I was hoping he could be our Brad Marchand... But he just about evens this one out.

 

In the end, it's a case of Murray being bold and setting the table instead of waiting around. He dealt parts that he didn't acquire (aside from Lemieux and the pick) in exchange for players he wanted. He paid more than we thought it would take but he got the deal done. I'm impressed. It'll be a few years before we know what this trade means.

[dudacek]

You could argue we acquired two core players and a better ticket to McEichel for one core player and three hopefuls.

Lot of question marks here, but I do think Kane will like playing for Teddy and fit in very well with McEichel or Reinhart.

[...]

Nobody can be sold on them right now. That's not the point. Do you like the cut of this trade's jib? Selling off potential for two established young players?

Wait, what? If I can't be sold on them, how could I like the trade?

 

I like the BIG thinking, and, yes, I do like getting "established young players" in return for something, but the value seems lop-sided to me. Clearly, this shows what GMTM means when he says they can turn around this team in a few years, rather than many years. But...Kane being the centerpiece leaves me wondering.

 

I'm completely open to admitting I'm under-valuing Kane, but I have seen nothing yet that convinces me he's better than Stafford was in his contract year.

[SabresFanInRochester]

Right on.

 

 

Now this is the correct usage of ZFG.

 

 

Absolutely.  This team is crying for an overhaul.

 

 

This too.

 

And for those criticizing the trade:  are you really not looking forward to seeing a top line, starting 8 months from now, featuring Eichel and Kane?

 

The Sabres have been dying for high-end talent at forward.  They just got a guy who GMTM thinks is a no-BS top-line NHL forward.  Would you rather have made like Darcy and waited another 3 years to see whether Armia becomes one?

 

There is a pretty solid likelihood that:

 

- Kane is the best player in this trade

- Myers and Bogosian end up having roughly equivalent careers

- Neither Armia, Lemieux nor the #1 pick the Sabres gave up turns into a real difference-maker in the NHL

- Between Stewart and the goalies, the Sabres end up getting more draft picks that turn into respectable assets.

 

Yes, it was expensive.  But that's what it costs. 

 

When was the last time a young forward drafted in the top 4 was traded?  Did it cost less than what the Sabres just paid?

Thanks for completing flipping me on thinking this is the deal of the century in Buffalo's favor. I didn't realize Kane was a top-line forward in WPG. And I should completely disregard the prospects because they are not proven NHL players. Sounds right on. A #4 pick who isn't working out with his current team is certainly worthy of a #12, #13, #16, #31, and a top 30. To be fair, WPG added their #19 and #157 -- what a steal! Go Sabres! 

 

Yeah, I'm laying it on pretty think.

[Marvelo]

I was hoping for more of a return for Myers. I thought we might be able to sucker some players for him alone. Trading away Drew Stafford was a gift to the Sabres. I think Armia is ultimately skilled but weak and injury prone, right from the Sabres mold, perfect for the KHL or similar league. Brendan Lemieux is a wild card. He might turn out really good, but he sure has a mouth for a youngster. Did we have to throw in a first rounder to sweeten this deal? The Sabres over-reached.

 

We won't see Kane til next year of course. I just can't get those images of him with all the stacks of money. Kanye West-like. He might be gifted and a hardass who can challenge Lucic but why make a problem your centerpiece in a trade? It's the Incognito-Kane mentality now that Buffalo must get these splashy. controversial players... Bogosian is still only 24...a first rounder that I the Sabres have coveted for a long time.. I know nothing about Kasdorf but it seems like this tells us Buffalo still hasn't settled on a goalie. It only takes one...(see Hasek) 

 

Ultimately it might be a wash. We get rid of 3 useless players and trade to the Jets for their main useless player and perhaps an underachieving 3rd overall draft choice defenseman.

[K8prisoner]

Rolling the dice on Kane. I think GMTM paid too much. Frankly, Darcy knew how to wheel and deal better.

Appears that way..

[JJFIVEOH]

Craig Custance @CraigCustance

· 4m 4 minutes ago

Sabres retaining half the salary on Drew Stafford in this deal too.

Really? That was actually a deal breaker?

[shrader]

I find it kind of amazing people are more pissed about Lemieux than Armia. Armia was going to be in the team next year, possibly in the top-6. Lemieux is 3 years away from probably being a 3rd liner. I know why, I just think it's fascinating.

And from that point of view, they just send out a guy who would possibly be a top 6 guy and brought back one who we know will be. Paired up with either Reinhart or McEichel, there's going to be a ton of potential there. I wasn't crazy about adding him when he first became available, but what's done is done. I'm going to focus on the potential for a very potent wing-center pairing on our first line.

[WildCard]

This is only the beginning for Murray. We knew it was coming, when you build a roster designed to lose, but are we ready to handle watching 1/2 a roster, literally, traded away or let go in the next 4 months?