off topic Buffalo Bills 2015

[Hoss]

"Failed to solidify?"  He wasn't supposed to be the starter until this coming season.

What is this based on? I could follow a thought process that says he wasn't supposed to start year one, but I don't think it's realistic to expect a first-round QB to sit two years before starting a game.

[LGR4GM]

What is this based on? I could follow a thought process that says he wasn't supposed to start year one, but I don't think it's realistic to expect a first-round QB to sit two years before starting a game.

Exactly.  If he succeeds I am excited but no matter how we look at that pick, they reached for a guy and took him well before they should have.  They got less value for that pick than it was worth.  It's one of the reasons the Bills have missed the playoffs 15 times in a row.  You have to get the best value and EJ's value IMPO was 3rd round on a good day.  

 

Just to restate, I hope EJ Manuel does come into Buffalo and play great.  I want the team to make the playoffs. 

I am done talking against EJ or that pick. I stated why I hated it and I continue to hate it. Carry on. 

[qwksndmonster]

I would love for EJ to be good because that still wouldn't prove me wrong.  

My point has and will forever be that Drafting EJ Manuel in the 1st round of the NFL draft was a obvious and egregious mistake because his talent level made him at best a 2nd round pick and realistically more of a 3rd round pick.  Because for 2 seasons now he has failed to solidify himself as the Bills starter, even if now he became an hall of fame QB it wouldn't matter.  Drafting him in the 1st round was ###### stupid and a waste. 

The fact that you still hold his draft position against him is pretty absurd.  We turned an 8th overall into two players, a QB prospect and a linebacker who is better than the player picked 3rd overall in the same draft.

[LGR4GM]

The fact that you still hold his draft position against him is pretty absurd.  We turned an 8th overall into two players, a QB prospect and a linebacker who is better than the player picked 3rd overall in the same draft.

That QB prospect could have actually been an impact player and then you could have drafted EJ in the 3rd round.  I can't explain it anymore.  

[TrueBlueGED]

That QB prospect could have actually been an impact player and then you could have drafted EJ in the 3rd round.  I can't explain it anymore.  

 

Please stop saying this--the Eagles were taking him if he was there at their pick in the 2nd. 

[LGR4GM]

Please stop saying this--the Eagles were taking him if he was there at their pick in the 2nd. 

so let them make the mistake. 

[dEnnis the Menace]

Please stop saying this--the Eagles were taking him if he was there at their pick in the 2nd. 

 

as was noted several times

[LGR4GM]

Why can't we all just love eachother!

[TrueBlueGED]

so let them make the mistake. 

 

Which is fine--you are perfectly within your rights to hold the position that it would have been better to let somebody else make the mistake. But that's not typically how you present it ;)

Why can't we all just love eachother!

 

Because you hate EJ, and we all love him. Duh.

[qwksndmonster]

Which is fine--you are perfectly within your rights to hold the position that it would have been better to let somebody else make the mistake. But that's not typically how you present it ;)

 

Because you hate EJ, and we all love him. Duh.

I'M JUST ATTRACTED TO HIM, GLOB.

[Eleven]

What is this based on? I could follow a thought process that says he wasn't supposed to start year one, but I don't think it's realistic to expect a first-round QB to sit two years before starting a game.

 

Aaron Rodgers and Phillip Rivers say hello.

 

I believe the plan was for Kolb to start for two years, possibly less if there was a reason to bench him and put Manuel in.

[Hoss]

Aaron Rodgers and Phillip Rivers say hello.

 

I believe the plan was for Kolb to start for two years, possibly less if there was a reason to bench him and put Manuel in.

There's no way the plan was for Kolb to start for two years. They're not dumb enough to believe that would've been a sound plan.

 

Also, the Phillip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers comment is easy to counter. I could list them if you'd like.

 

 

Regardless of your position EJ Manuel has been a failure TO THIS POINT. He could succeed in the future. It is my opinion that the first round was a couple rounds too early and it's one of this franchise's worst picks in a while. I'm glad they at least dealt back to get extra picks that turned into LeSean McCoy.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Hoss

[Eleven]

There's no way the plan was for Kolb to start for two years. They're not dumb enough to believe that would've been a sound plan.

 

Also, the Phillip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers comment is easy to counter. I could list them if you'd like.

 

Of course you could, because most teams drafting a QB in the first round are desperate to have him start.  Green Bay and SD were smart and planned for the future (even if SD was also dumb for giving up too soon on Brees).  

 

The Bills had no reason to believe that 2014 would be anything but a learning year for Manuel when they drafted him in 2013.  

 

"Kolb agreed to a two-year contract worth up to a maximum of $12 million to $13 million, a source involved in the deal told Rapoport. Those financials suggest the Bills view Kolb -- and nobody else -- as the starter heading into offseason activities"

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000156120/article/kevin-kolb-agrees-to-contract-with-buffalo-bills

 

Note 2 years, not 1.  I'm sure that if EJ had wowed the Bills, they may have released Kolb, but there's nothing to indicate that the plan was anything other than two years of OTJ training.

[TrueBlueGED]

Of course you could, because most teams drafting a QB in the first round are desperate to have him start. Green Bay and SD were smart and planned for the future (even if SD was also dumb for giving up too soon on Brees).

 

The Bills had no reason to believe that 2014 would be anything but a learning year for Manuel when they drafted him in 2013.

 

"Kolb agreed to a two-year contract worth up to a maximum of $12 million to $13 million, a source involved in the deal told Rapoport. Those financials suggest the Bills view Kolb -- and nobody else -- as the starter heading into offseason activities"

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000156120/article/kevin-kolb-agrees-to-contract-with-buffalo-bills

 

Note 2 years, not 1. I'm sure that if EJ had wowed the Bills, they may have released Kolb, but there's nothing to indicate that the plan was anything other than two years of OTJ training.

I really don't think a two year contract proves the loan was for EJ to sit for two years. After all, how often do players play out their contracts in the NFL? I do think the team planned on Kolb starting in 2013, but 2014 is a much different story.

[Hoss]

Of course you could, because most teams drafting a QB in the first round are desperate to have him start. Green Bay and SD were smart and planned for the future (even if SD was also dumb for giving up too soon on Brees).

 

The Bills had no reason to believe that 2014 would be anything but a learning year for Manuel when they drafted him in 2013.

 

"Kolb agreed to a two-year contract worth up to a maximum of $12 million to $13 million, a source involved in the deal told Rapoport. Those financials suggest the Bills view Kolb -- and nobody else -- as the starter heading into offseason activities"

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000156120/article/kevin-kolb-agrees-to-contract-with-buffalo-bills

 

Note 2 years, not 1. I'm sure that if EJ had wowed the Bills, they may have released Kolb, but there's nothing to indicate that the plan was anything other than two years of OTJ training.

That article was written before they drafted a QB in round one. And they had to give him a two-year deal, I'm sure, or he would've pursued opportunities elsewhere. The length of the deal doesn't imply that they planned on him starting for two years.

[tom webster]

so let them make the mistake. 

So let me understand this. Even if he becomes a hall of famer in your eyes it would still be a bad pick and we should of let Philly take him. I understand you not liking the player and thinking they should have never picked the player but this whole trend the last few years to assign value to when a player is picked is ridiculous.It implies that there is some exact science to grading prospects and we both know there is not. 

[qwksndmonster]

That QB prospect could have actually been an impact player and then you could have drafted EJ in the 3rd round.  I can't explain it anymore.  

Impact player?  Like a player that would have a bigger impact than hitting on a QB prospect?  Not likely.

[nfreeman]

So let me understand this. Even if he becomes a hall of famer in your eyes it would still be a bad pick and we should of let Philly take him. I understand you not liking the player and thinking they should have never picked the player but this whole trend the last few years to assign value to when a player is picked is ridiculous.It implies that there is some exact science to grading prospects and we both know there is not. 

 

Well, I do think it's fair to consider the opportunity cost -- e.g. if player X could've been picked in the 3rd round but was selected in the 1st round, then, no matter how good or bad player X turns out to be, the team has lost the value of the other guy they could've taken in the 1st round.

 

NB that I am NOT saying this is the case with EJ -- no one knows whether Philly or anyone else would've taken him before the Bills' next pick.  I'm just saying that it's reasonable to want to maximize the bang your team gets for its draft pick bucks.

[Johnny DangerFace]

So if a team took Tom Brady in round 1 even though no one was going to take him for rounds, it'd be bad value?

[Wyldnwoody44]

So if a team took Tom Brady in round 1 even though no one was going to take him for rounds, it'd be bad value?

Yes at that current time... Hindsight is 20/20.....itd be a ridiculed pick right up to the point they win a super bowl... Or a few.... However I doubt ej ever becomes Brady or half of Brady

[Johnny DangerFace]

Yea of course, but their career ultimately determines what their value was. Who cares if the pick would've been ridiculed or not. Plenty of great picks and drafts were laughed at. If EJ wins super bowls, then you can't say the pick wasn't a value. If EJ sucks forever, it was a bad value pick.

 

I don't know why my point is other than let players play for a few years before saying if the pick was worth it or not. They are all mystery boxes, so who cares if people value some mystery boxes more than others.

 

 

And hindsight is all that matters. Not "expert predictions"

Edited May 1, 2015 by Vlad Dangerslakov

[TrueBlueGED]

I made the mistake of turning on WGR on the way to the gym...is Schopp actually arguing that Matt Cassel isn't competitive enough for him because he's still friends with Tom Brady? Holy moly...

[Wyldnwoody44]

I laugh at some expert predictions, sometimes I wish my job was a scout or analyst, because like weatherman you don't necessarily need to be right.

 

I agree that hindsight is all that matters, however from what I've seen to this point, that pick does not meet the grade to my own personal eyes.

 

I just want the Damn bills to get a QB and win, is that so much to ask!!

[Hoss]

At the draft they have UB's bull logo up instead of the Bills logo...

[inkman]

Do the Bills take Randy Gregory if he falls two more picks?