off topic Buffalo Bills 2015

[Eleven]

Frustrated over the injury is the implication. This was going to be a big contract year for him and its not going well.

A few things;

 

1) I still think they make the playoffs, a first step in the Ryan process, a third step in the Whaley process

2) penalties, as aggravating as they are, shouldn't really be an issue. Look at the penalty leaders from last year, one and two were in the Super Bowl.

3) don't understand why a lot of the same people that rip the Watkins trade are concerned about wide outs. Aren't they a dime a dozen?

 

Ah, "frustrated" makes sense in that context.

Respectfully, this is a straw man.  I (and I think most who don't like the Watkins trade) don't think franchise WRs are a dime a dozen -- just that there were a number of good ones they could've drafted last year that wouldn't have cost the extra #1 pick.

 Bingo.

[tom webster]

Looks like Buffalo made the wrong head coach hire....again. Mutiny on the D 6 weeks in and all these injuries? Yup, this season dies on the vine this Sunday in London.

 

 

I know you don't judge your business interests in such a short term vacuum. I am as frustrated as you but its way too early to sell short.

[JJFIVEOH]

Respectfully, this is a straw man.  I (and I think most who don't like the Watkins trade) don't think franchise WRs are a dime a dozen -- just that there were a number of good ones they could've drafted last year that wouldn't have cost the extra #1 pick.

 

And you know what Bills fans would be saying right now if that happened, with the depleted receiver core we have now? "Whaley should be fired for not trading up to get a receiver, this team is going to miss the playoffs again because there's nobody to throw to."

[tom webster]

Respectfully, this is a straw man.  I (and I think most who don't like the Watkins trade) don't think franchise WRs are a dime a dozen -- just that there were a number of good ones they could've drafted last year that wouldn't have cost the extra #1 pick.

 

 

There was a little bit of sarcasm there. I wasn't a big fan of the trade either but I understand the logic of it in the context that until you find the quarterback, you load up everywhere else. Some of my best friends are heavy into that new logic that says never spend money on RB's and WR's. New England doesn't! Well. I'm pretty sure if a HOF'er falls into their lap, Buffalo won't either.

[Hoss]

And you know what Bills fans would be saying right now if that happened, with the depleted receiver core we have now? "Whaley should be fired for not trading up to get a receiver, this team is going to miss the playoffs again because there's nobody to throw to."

No. The idea is that they would've been able to draft one where they stood or in the second which would nullify the argument you mentioned above.

 

Also, Watkins is part of the reason they have a depleted group. He's had injury issues his entire career... Another pick may not have had the same injury issues.

 

The trade was terrible... We're approaching the territory where you wouldn't be wrong in questioning if the pick was bad, too.

[Claude_Verret]

There was a little bit of sarcasm there. I wasn't a big fan of the trade either but I understand the logic of it in the context that until you find the quarterback, you load up everywhere else. Some of my best friends are heavy into that new logic that says never spend money on RB's and WR's. New England doesn't! Well. I'm pretty sure if a HOF'er falls into their lap, Buffalo won't either.

 

Yep, I don't think NE skips a beat if they lose Gronk, Edelman and their RB du jour to injury as long as Brady stays healthy.

[nfreeman]

And you know what Bills fans would be saying right now if that happened, with the depleted receiver core we have now? "Whaley should be fired for not trading up to get a receiver, this team is going to miss the playoffs again because there's nobody to throw to."

 

You missed the point by a country mile.

[JJFIVEOH]

No. The idea is that they would've been able to draft one where they stood or in the second which would nullify the argument you mentioned above.

 

Also, Watkins is part of the reason they have a depleted group. He's had injury issues his entire career... Another pick may not have had the same injury issues.

 

The trade was terrible... We're approaching the territory where you wouldn't be wrong in questioning if the pick was bad, too.

 

For all you know any other receiver could have had the same injury issues. It could have been worse. For all you know any receiver taken that round could have ended up worse with BFLO than they did with their current team. You're basing your opinion on hindsight. The trade would have been terrible if it didn't net us a #1 receiver which was the point all along and most other teams would have taken Sammy over Beckham.

 

I don't see anybody in the 2nd round that is better than Sammy.

 

We're approaching the territory of opinions and hypotheticals, there can't be any 'wrongs' because nothing is based on fact.

You missed the point by a country mile.

 

Your point was that they wasted a first round pick on Sammy, right? That they could have gotten a better receiver elsewhere, correct?

Edited October 22, 2015 by JJFIVEOH

[nfreeman]

Your point was that they wasted a first round pick on Sammy, right? That they could have gotten a better receiver elsewhere, correct?

 

No.  It was that they didn't need to spend the EXTRA first-round pick to get a good WR -- i.e. that a number of really good WRs were drafted last year, so they could've drafted one of those with their #1 and then they still would've had this year's #1.

[JJFIVEOH]

No.  It was that they didn't need to spend the EXTRA first-round pick to get a good WR -- i.e. that a number of really good WRs were drafted last year, so they could've drafted one of those with their #1 and then they still would've had this year's #1.

 

Sorry I forgot the word 'EXTRA'. I figured that was implied.

 

Going back to what I said to Hoss, you're using hindsight to prove a point. At the time it made total sense because Sammy was the #1 rated WR in the draft. If everybody knew Beckham would have turned out the way he did, the draft would have been totally different. And if the Bills drafted Beckham, he probably would have never turned out the way he did because Eli is ten times the QB the Bills have had over the last 15 years. And there is nobody in the 2nd that I would have taken over Sammy.

I think we can all agree that trade is the least of the concerns right now. ;)

[Eleven]

Sorry I forgot the word 'EXTRA'. I figured that was implied.

 

Going back to what I said to Hoss, you're using hindsight to prove a point. At the time it made total sense because Sammy was the #1 rated WR in the draft. If everybody knew Beckham would have turned out the way he did, the draft would have been totally different. And if the Bills drafted Beckham, he probably would have never turned out the way he did because Eli is ten times the QB the Bills have had over the last 15 years. And there is nobody in the 2nd that I would have taken over Sammy.

I think we can all agree that trade is the least of the concerns right now. ;)

 

No it didn't, and many people had a problem with it at the time.  I saw no reason to spend two first-rounders on a WR and I didn't even know who Beckham was at the time.

[Johnny DangerFace]

I think it's funny how clear it is that when Watkins is in the game, the offense is "night/day difference" better. He makes the offense go. Yet he isn't worth two first rounders.

 

Who knows if beckham would be the same, Cruz killed it in that offense before him. But I do know Watkins makes that difference.

 

And this injury stuff is way too early. He started 16 games last year and had a great rookie season.

 

Just realize all fan bases have a player they irrationally blame, if you are hating on Watkins, you are in the group.

[Eleven]

No receiver is worth two first round picks.

 

I don't hate Watkins at all.  I like him.

 

EDIT:  By way of example:  Many, including me, consider Calvin Johnson to be the best WR in the game today.  I would rather have Dwayne Bowe (same draft class) and a first round pick than Calvin Johnson.

Edited October 22, 2015 by eleven

[Hoss]

I agree. There is no hindsight. It was a bad move from the start. I was excited because trades are exciting, but it didn't make sense at the time.

[Randall Flagg]

No receiver is worth two first round picks.

 

I don't hate Watkins at all. I like him.

 

EDIT: By way of example: Many, including me, consider Calvin Johnson to be the best WR in the game today. I would rather have Dwayne Bowe (same draft class) and a first round pick than Calvin Johnson.

I generally agree but in this example, I take Calvin Johnson all day AINEC.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'll agree a WR isn't worth two 1st round picks. But when you need to address one position and you're afraid the guy you want probably won't be available when it's time for you to picks, the price goes up. When you think you have enough pieces to become a playoff contender (emphasis on the word 'think') and you have one glaring hole, you're going to pay more for that pick than another team. If this team was rebuilding it may have been a completely different story.

[wjag]

Manual is starting again... arghh

[Hoss]

I'll agree a WR isn't worth two 1st round picks. But when you need to address one position and you're afraid the guy you want probably won't be available when it's time for you to picks, the price goes up. When you think you have enough pieces to become a playoff contender (emphasis on the word 'think') and you have one glaring hole, you're going to pay more for that pick than another team. If this team was rebuilding it may have been a completely different story.

If anybody actually thought this about the Bills before making that trade they should've been fired. Especially about the WR position where they were a year removed from a franchise-record three consecutive 1,000 yard seasons from Stevie Johnson.

 

Because I know it's coming: NO, I'm not saying the Bills didn't need a WR and NO, I'm not saying Stevie is/was better than Sammy. The opposite of both is true.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Hoss

[SwampD]

I think it's funny how clear it is that when Watkins is in the game, the offense is "night/day difference" better. He makes the offense go. Yet he isn't worth two first rounders.

 

Who knows if beckham would be the same, Cruz killed it in that offense before him. But I do know Watkins makes that difference.

 

And this injury stuff is way too early. He started 16 games last year and had a great rookie season.

 

Just realize all fan bases have a player they irrationally blame, if you are hating on Watkins, you are in the group.

I think I agree with this post, although I'm not sure the blame is totally irrational. There are genuine concerns.

[TrueBlueGED]

Good, bad, right, wrong, stupid, smart...I'm honestly just tired of the conversation over the trade. I just don't care anymore--it's done and cannot be undone. It's going on a year and a half, and not a single person has budged from their initial position. I'm done with it. It's just boring to rehash. Is it wrong to feel this way?

[woods-racer]

Good, bad, right, wrong, stupid, smart...I'm honestly just tired of the conversation over the trade. I just don't care anymore--it's done and cannot be undone. It's going on a year and a half, and not a single person has budged from their initial position. I'm done with it. It's just boring to rehash. Is it wrong to feel this way?

 

Not sure... but I think the horse just had a spasm, please resume the beating. :ph34r:

Edited October 23, 2015 by Woods-Racer

[Johnny DangerFace]

Not sure... but I think the horse just a spasm, please resume the beating. :ph34r:

lol spasm.... Sounds like

[Brawndo]

@ChrisBrownBills: John Miller had death in family and will not play Sunday. #Bills

so the right side of the Bills OL will be Kraig Urbik and Cyrus Kouandjio on Sunday. Aww

Edited October 23, 2015 by BRAWNDO

[That Aud Smell]

Yep, I don't think NE skips a beat if they lose Gronk, Edelman and their RB du jour to injury as long as Brady stays healthy.

 

Hmm. Losing Gronk would make Brady skip a few beats.

 

No receiver is worth two first round picks.

 

I don't hate Watkins at all.  I like him.

 

EDIT:  By way of example:  Many, including me, consider Calvin Johnson to be the best WR in the game today.  I would rather have Dwayne Bowe (same draft class) and a first round pick than Calvin Johnson.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with the first point, but I'm just not sure that's the best example.

 

The uncertainty associated with college talents is clearly such a big factor when it comes to moving up and getting what the GM and his team feel is a sure thing. Watkins' injuries have limited him, and that's been frustrating. But I think he's as sure a thing as there is in the NFL when it comes to getting an elite talent at a key position.

 

A team that stayed put in 2007 and didn't trade up for Calvin Johnson could've ended up with Adrian Peterson (7th overall) or, as you say, Dwayne Bowe (23rd (who's been a good, far from great pro)).

 

But that team also could've stayed in the top 10 and ended up with Gaines Adams, Levi Brown, or Ted Ginn Jr (who was the second receiver off the board that year, picked in the 9 slot where the Bills were in 2014).

 

I'm done with any regret of the Watkins trade. I just want him to get well and be well for a good long stretch.

[dEnnis the Menace]

@ChrisBrownBills: John Miller had death in family and will not play Sunday. #Bills

so the right side of the Bills OL will be Kraig Urbik and Cyrus Kouandjio on Sunday. Aww ######

 

EJ must feel like a man on death row with his sentence looming