off topic Buffalo Bills 2015

[WildCard]

Unbelievable. Either Tim Graham is getting played by someone or something strange is going on in the OneBuffalo nuthouse again. Or both.

 

I have been advocating for the jettisoning of Whaley for quite a while now. Cutting Jackson has added to that position, but even so -- I have a hard time believing that Rex and TP weren't on board with this.

On one hand I like the fact that Whaley is allowed to do his job, Rex his, and Pegula be the owner. OTOH, I see no reason whatsoever for the move. Still, given what Whaley has assembled here, arguably one of the best rosters in the NFL, there's no way I want him gone. 

[woods-racer]

I have a few questions.

 

 

Who was the last GM for the Bills that fielded a really good team?

 

Did he ruffle some feathers and piss off the owner?

 

I'll take a pissed off owner and a darn good football team.

[Brawndo]

I have a few questions.

 

 

Who was the last GM for the Bills that fielded a really good team?

 

Did he ruffle some feathers and piss off the owner?

 

I'll take a pissed off owner and a darn good football team.

Bill Polian and John Butler

 

Yes and yes

 

Absolutely

Edited September 2, 2015 by BRAWNDO

[SwampD]

Bill Polian and John Butler

 

Yes and yes

 

Absolutely

The last two coaches with a winning record,… quit.

[That Aud Smell]

Graham tweeting that there's anger/embarrassment in connection with the M&T relationship.

 

Business issues are front and center.

 

Whaley may've acted within his authority, but done so in a ham-fisted manner.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't know what to make of all this yet, but I do know Graham may be the only Buffalo reporter I trust nearly implicitly. If he reports it I take it as accurate unless there's really strong evidence to the contrary.

[That Aud Smell]

Graham has good sources.

 

But he's maddeningly imprecise on Twitter. Rogue is not the word he wanted here.

[thewookie1]

I could see Fred deeming Whaley dishonest if he made FJ believe he was still in the scheme, yet was actually only holding onto him because he was good for business thus Whaley cut him the first chance he got where the Pegulas weren't able to argue keeping him around. This screams Whaley desperately trying to save Brown from being cut.

 

Honestly had he told the Pegulas, and Fred prior to yesterday morning( according to some sources Fred hadn't known until it happened) I doubt this would of happened. Also, seeing as he literally did interviews the days prior, it gives me the thought Whaley may not of even expressed potentially cutting him. I can sympathize with Fred if Whaley pulled a rug out from under him, he at least deserved to know ahead of time. He's been here longer than Whaley has, so in a sense it was disrespectful.

[TrueBlueGED]

Graham tweeting that there's anger/embarrassment in connection with the M&T relationship.

 

Business issues are front and center.

 

Whaley may've acted within his authority, but done so in a ham-fisted manner.

What I'm taking from this is the business side wanted notification so they could work with M&T on appropriate replacement or some such. The more sinister view is the business side would want input into the roster based on marketing partnerships, which I find hard to believe with the Pegulas now owning the team.

[tom webster]

What I'm taking from this is the business side wanted notification so they could work with M&T on appropriate replacement or some such. The more sinister view is the business side would want input into the roster based on marketing partnerships, which I find hard to believe with the Pegulas now owning the team.

If anyone should be embarrassed it's whoever decided it was a good idea to base an ad campaign on a 34 year old running who at best was going to be a short yardage back and most likely be the third string running back likely to be inactive several games.

[Hoss]

Yea he's only built an elite defense and the most talented group of WRs/TEs/RBs we've seen here in awhile

 

 

 

And how can a GM go rogue by exercising his job authority...

 

It's like an OC going rogue and calling a 3rd down play

You're on the right track with the second and third thoughts. But I wouldn't call Whaley a builder for this defense. He wasn't the primary decision maker for Mario, Dareus, Bradham, Aaron Williams or Gilmore. None of the main pieces. I'll count Hughes (he wasn't in charge yet but was two weeks after so he probably made that move).

[TrueBlueGED]

If anyone should be embarrassed it's whoever decided it was a good idea to base an ad campaign on a 34 year old running who at best was going to be a short yardage back and most likely be the third string running back likely to be inactive several games.

 

Unless my timeline is way off (always possible), the M&T-Jackson relationship started well before he was slated to have a much reduced role in the offense.

 

 

You're on the right track with the second and third thoughts. But I wouldn't call Whaley a builder for this defense. He wasn't the primary decision maker for Mario, Dareus, Bradham, Aaron Williams or Gilmore. None of the main pieces. I'll count Hughes (he wasn't in charge yet but was two weeks after so he probably made that move).

 

You're right in that Whaley wasn't in charge for most of that, but he was in charge for several key decisions: signing Corey Graham, deciding Bradham's play made Alonso expendable, and deciding it was better to pay Aaron Williams a significant-but-modest sum rather than caving to Byrd's demands. 

[tom webster]

You're on the right track with the second and third thoughts. But I wouldn't call Whaley a builder for this defense. He wasn't the primary decision maker for Mario, Dareus, Bradham, Aaron Williams or Gilmore. None of the main pieces. I'll count Hughes (he wasn't in charge yet but was two weeks after so he probably made that move).

I agree with this but you have to get consistent. You want to blame Whaley for decisions before he was the man but not give him credit for decisions during the same time frame.

While the jury is still out on his job performance, I believe he doesn't get the credit he deserves because of what happened the nine years before he became the GM.

This whole thing is really funny actually. A lot of the same people who talked about Whaley like he was a neutered puppet after the Ryan hiring now want to have us believe that he is the man secure enough to go rogue.

[Hoss]

I agree with this but you have to get consistent. You want to blame Whaley for decisions before he was the man but not give him credit for decisions during the same time frame.

I don't think I could possibly more consistent in this instance. I gave him credit for Jerry Hughes in the post above and knock him for taking Manuel. He wasn't in the actual GM position for either of those moves. But Manuel was taken on April 25, 2013. Jerry Hughes was acquired April 29, 2013.

 

None of the moves I listed happened in that timeframe.

[calti]

I have a few questions.

 

 

Who was the last GM for the Bills that fielded a really good team?

 

Did he ruffle some feathers and piss off the owner?

 

I'll take a pissed off owner and a darn good football team.

this GM hasn't fielded a really good team yet.....that remains to be seen. last time I remember we were getting manhandled by the mighty raiders. lets hope tyrod works out.

[calti]

Unbelievable. Either Tim Graham is getting played by someone or something strange is going on in the OneBuffalo nuthouse again. Or both.

 

I have been advocating for the jettisoning of Whaley for quite a while now. Cutting Jackson has added to that position, but even so -- I have a hard time believing that Rex and TP weren't on board with this.

yep. I doubt whaley has the authority to go rogue on an issue like this. ---Rex the bigmouth average coach must of had a lot to do with it and TP just went along.

[WildCard]

yep. I doubt whaley has the authority to go rogue on an issue like this. ---Rex the bigmouth average coach must of had a lot to do with it and TP just went along.

Sarcasm? 

[That Aud Smell]

If anyone should be embarrassed it's whoever decided it was a good idea to base an ad campaign on a 34 year old running who at best was going to be a short yardage back and most likely be the third string running back likely to be inactive several games.

If rostered, or even if retired and in an ambassador role in the Bills FO, F Jax remained the most marketable Bill M&T had at its disposal for the upcoming season.

[tom webster]

If rostered, or even if retired and in an ambassador role in the Bills FO, F Jax remained the most marketable Bill M&T had at its disposal for the upcoming season.

I can come up with five campaigns before 9 am that don't require using a player that likely was going to be a marginal contributor at best. And if you are going to include players in retirement I can come up with 10.

[That Aud Smell]

I can come up with five campaigns before 9 am that don't require using a player that likely was going to be a marginal contributor at best. And if you are going to include players in retirement I can come up with 10.

 

I'm sure you could. But are the players associated with those campaigns what Buffalo's leading (and perhaps starchiest) private corporation would want? I'm guessing not. There's the cohort that has players with bad or weird off-field issues (drag racing, synth pot, orgies, engagement ring fiasco, etc.), a cohort of players who just don't present polished enough (probably Watkins, Gilmore), and a cohort of players who would just lack the requisite recognition factor (Preston Brown is all I got there). 

 

Maybe Kyle Williams was their other option. That might have actually worked. 

 

As for the retired players, I think M&T did that for a while (Thurman, among others), and has moved on to wanting newer faces.

 

I think maybe you misunderestimate the extent to which Fred eclipsed the other players in terms of marketability.

 

Finally, I don't imagine that the "rogue" issue here is that M&T was caught totally flat-footed, nor that the Bills business people would have wanted a say in whether Jackson stayed with the team. My sense is that the Bills business people were not kept in the loop, and that M&T found out through media reports and that this was a very bad look with the team's biggest corporate sponsor.

Edited September 2, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[nfreeman]

I'm sure you could. But are the players associated with those campaigns what Buffalo's leading (and perhaps starchiest) private corporation would want? I'm guessing not. There's the cohort that has players with bad or weird off-field issues (drag racing, synth pot, orgies, engagement ring fiasco, etc.), a cohort of players who just don't present polished enough (probably Watkins, Gilmore), and a cohort of players who would just lack the requisite recognition factor (Preston Brown is all I got there). 

 

Maybe Kyle Williams was their other option. That might have actually worked. 

 

As for the retired players, I think M&T did that for a while (Thurman, among others), and has moved on to wanting newer faces.

 

I think maybe you misunderestimate the extent to which Fred eclipsed the other players in terms of marketability.

 

Finally, I don't imagine that the "rogue" issue here is that M&T was caught totally flat-footed, nor that the Bills business people would have wanted a say in whether Jackson stayed with the team. My sense is that the Bills business people were not kept in the loop, and that M&T found out through media reports and that this was a very bad look with the team's biggest corporate sponsor.

 

It does kinda seem that way -- and if so, Tim Graham's tweets were well overstated.

[musichunch]

Had some time to think it over.

 

I've always had one eyebrow raised towards Doug Whaley. At first it was his public persona. I always got the sense that he was too stiff and trying too hard to look like a high powered businessman with the sunglasses and all that. But I just attributed it to him overcompensating for being young. But regardless, even now, I still can't get a clean read on him.

 

Then the Marrone thing. Unlike 99.99% of the fanbase, I still support Marrone. I believed in him to get us to a winning record and he did, although he did it in strange ways. Well, it's been reported enough times that him and Whaley clashed big time. I just got the sense that Marrone left with 100% of the bad reputation and Whaley stayed clean, which is never the truth. It takes two to tango. 

 

Knowing that Whaley is a product of the Steelers organization, I compare him to another high ranking man there who's of a similar age named Mike Tomlin, who I find to be an appalling person https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbf_NtYoE1c It's possible the organization is ruthless in the kind of person they expect them to be, moreso than we realize. I saw how dirty Tomlin was willing to play in that Steelers down year. 

 

So I know this isn't a comprehensive list nor have I met the man in person, but I always believed that if you connect enough dots things will start to look clearer. I don't think Whaley is a really bad guy, but he's just always set off some sort of radar I have. What does it have to do with the Fred move? Can't say for sure. But when one guy of unquestionably tremendous character calls out only one person, and that person has, at least to me, questionable character, I'm going to go with the first guy. 

 

Another thing, if Fred says Whaley is shady, despite how the fans defend Whaley with "he's the GM blah blah", the players in the locker room will take note. Especially the veterans like Wood and Kyle Williams. It could affect things in the future, like negotiations. I think this is Whaley's first serious mistake as GM. If he blows the Dareus negotiations, the tide will turn against him big time. 

Edited September 2, 2015 by musichunch

[Eleven]

Yea he's only built an elite defense and the most talented group of WRs/TEs/RBs we've seen here in awhile

 

 

 

And how can a GM go rogue by exercising his job authority...

 

It's like an OC going rogue and calling a 3rd down play

 

The coach decides who makes the team.

[That Aud Smell]

It does kinda seem that way -- and if so, Tim Graham's tweets were well overstated.

 

I'm left to infer that he does this sort of thing intentionally. He gets good information from reliable sources, Tweets out a scoop in a misleading manner ("rogue"), gets blowback from all corners, retweets and mocks the trolls and #youranidiot types, and plays coy with those asking more serious questions. 

 

He has as much admitted in subsequent tweets that it wasn't so much a matter of being rogue, as being a poor communicator.

 

He's tweeting now, trying to walk back the use of rogue. Pinning the term on his source.

 

I've always had one eyebrow raised towards Doug Whaley. 

 

Me too.

 

That said, he does seem to have a good track record with his drafts. And I am counting drafts where he was heavily involved, but Nix was nominally in charge.

The coach decides who makes the team.

 

Form the players who are rostered by the GM.

 

In any case, Rex is not your average NFL coach. He also has a direct report to the Pegulas.

 

This seems to have been a business issue, based on what's being reported.

[Johnny DangerFace]

The coach decides who makes the team.

I'd be shocked if the coach has final decision with personnel moves than the GM.