off topic Buffalo Bills 2015

[K-9]

I'm still not sure that he makes defense respect the sideline out pattern that the typical NFL quarterback has always been measured by. I acknowledge that I haven't spent any time watching film, so correct me if I am wrong. 

No doubt that Wilson has evolved, hopefully Taylor can translate in game experience to do the same.

Wilson is a bit of a physical freak for his size with huge hands and he's stronger than most at his position. A scout at the Senior Bowl was amazed the first he met him there. He has a cannon for an arm. You are right that the long out is still them measuring stick; if a guy can't throw the ball 20 yards from the far hash on time, he will have a hard time convincing people he has an NFL arm. Wilson can make that throw on a frozen rope.

 

I think TT can as well. I just question his accuracy with it. I think he can get better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[tom webster]

Wilson is a bit of a physical freak for his size with huge hands and he's stronger than most at his position. A scout at the Senior Bowl was amazed the first he met him there. He has a cannon for an arm. You are right that the long out is still them measuring stick; if a guy can't throw the ball 20 yards from the far hash on time, he will have a hard time convincing people he has an NFL arm. Wilson can make that throw on a frozen rope.

 

I think TT can as well. I just question his accuracy with it. I think he can get better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I remember JP Losman in what I think was his first pre-season game against Denver and Shanahan was mic'ed up. Losman threw a frozen rope right in front of him thoroughly impressing Shanahan.  All the tools and not much else.

I will have to watch Wilson more this season. I just can't remember too many passes from the pocket and especially outs but then again he doesn't need to throw much does he? 

 

Cue the "he should have thrown one less time......"

[musichunch]

Here's my thoughts on last night:

 

- My opinion on Tyrod is in the "exciting player but teams will eat him up once they force him to throw from the pocket" camp. I'd love for him to succeed. The national media and casual fan will love "Rex, Tyrod, and the Nasty D" narrative. On the 3rd or 4th down scramble when he was short of the 1st down, I remember seeing Brown and Hogan open at different times. I hope that's not a trend with him. Need to see more, but I have a feeling there's not too much more to see.

 

- EJ was put in a position to fail. 3rd string teammates, a center who doesn't know the snap count, TEs who drop easy passes, etc. I've questioned the coaching staff's bias against him before (and I'll add a nice little tidbit at the end of this post). They want Tyrod to win the job, not EJ.

 

But you know what, part of an NFL QB's job is to overcome obstacles. Part of being successful at any field in life is overcoming obstacles and problems. There are forces against him right now for various reasons, but he needs to be a man and overcome them. The problem with EJ, and I think everybody senses it, is that he seems like a wimp. A guy you can push around who might not fight back. In my experience, that can only be fixed by standing up for yourself and speaking out consistently over time. He better get started now. 

 

- We might have nailed another draft. Darby, Williams, and Miller may end up being very solid long-term starters. That's how teams like the Ravens and Steelers stay good for so long. 

 

- I thought Darby showed lots of potential while being fed to the wolves. Never gave up, and still stayed with his guy even after the big plays. Ginn was a perfectly thrown pass and Benjamin pushed off with full extension and then received perfect ball placement. I love his athleticism and trust he'll learn the little things that will prevent those types of completions. 

 

Here's the little tidbit I promised. Friend of a friend had drinks with prominent members of the front office after the game last night. Vibe is they love Tyrod, thought EJ did well but not good enough. He's a likely cut. This gels with what a lot of people have thought. Take it for what it's worth.

Edited August 15, 2015 by musichunch

[Hoss]

I've seen the EJ didn't get any help narrative, and it's certainly accurate... But he's not the only person who suffered from the bad hands of his targets. Tyrod had two BEAUTIFUL deep balls where only his WR could make the catch and neither play was made.

[qwksndmonster]

BEAUTIFUL.  Hoss, if I was your bf I'd feel (know) that it doesn't mean much when you say it about me.

[Hoss]

BEAUTIFUL. Hoss, if I was your bf I'd feel (know) that it doesn't mean much when you say it about me.

Are you jealous because I wasn't talking about your beautiful deep balls?

[qwksndmonster]

Are you jealous because I wasn't talking about your beautiful deep balls?

Only because it's the only positive superlative you use.

[musichunch]

I've seen the EJ didn't get any help narrative, and it's certainly accurate... But he's not the only person who suffered from the bad hands of his targets. Tyrod had two BEAUTIFUL deep balls where only his WR could make the catch and neither play was made.

 

Certainly true. That's why I said EJ needs to overcome his obstacles. Everybody is dealt a different hand. EJ's was a little worse last night AND he is probably dealing with a coaching staff that already has their favorite. Regardless he needs to take advantage of his opportunities. That's why the attempted throw to O'Leary was so annoying. How could the throw be so far off after such an awesome spin move?

[Weave]

Certainly true. That's why I said EJ needs to overcome his obstacles. Everybody is dealt a different hand. EJ's was a little worse last night AND he is probably dealing with a coaching staff that already has their favorite. Regardless he needs to take advantage of his opportunities. That's why the attempted throw to O'Leary was so annoying. How could the throw be so far off after such an awesome spin move?

 

Kelly's commentary from the booth was pretty damning there too.  C'mon, EJ.  You gotta square up your hips and make that throw.  They've been teaching you that since before high school.

 

Ouch.

[spndnchz]

I don't know much about football but I could see Cassell and Taylor being matched up to different teams week to week based on their strengths.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Kelly's commentary from the booth was pretty damning there too. C'mon, EJ. You gotta square up your hips and make that throw. They've been teaching you that since before high school.

 

Ouch.

That was definitely a punch to the gut for EJ. It seems even Kelly doesn't believe in EJ anymore. He used to be an EJ proponent

[TrueBlueGED]

On Russell Wilson:http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2015/film-room-russell-wilsons-mobility

 

It's really long, but excellent. Short version: he hasn't really changed much since his rookie year. Also, he's great, so Whiskey consider this my mea culpa: you were right, he's top-12.

[LastPommerFan]

On Russell Wilson:http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2015/film-room-russell-wilsons-mobility

 

It's really long, but excellent. Short version: he hasn't really changed much since his rookie year. Also, he's great, so Whiskey consider this my mea culpa: you were right, he's top-12.

 

Your admission is admirable but unnecessary. I seek not admiration, but truth.

[inkman]

I don't know much about football but I could see Cassell and Taylor being matched up to different teams week to week based on their strengths.

It makes sense on paper but only college and high rotate QBs. It would be the first time in a long time that a team changed QBs based on match ups. There are other factors at work, team chemistry Yada Yada.

[Hoss]

Rivers signs a four-year extension in San Angeles (or is it Los Diego?). That pipe dream dies.

[nfreeman]

I really liked Taylor last night. He looked like a junior-sized mix of Vick, Randall Cunningham and Eric Metcalf. If he can avoid the kill shots -- which he was able to do last night, but only with inches to spare -- he might be really something.

[The Dominator]

I really liked Taylor last night. He looked like a junior-sized mix of Vick, Randall Cunningham and Eric Metcalf. If he can avoid the kill shots -- which he was able to do last night, but only with inches to spare -- he might be really something.

 

For the next preseason game, I'm looking for Tyrod to do what he did on Friday but make just a few more throws from the pocket. Those 2 throws down the sideline should have been caught (at least the one to Marquise should have) which were the only plays that kept him from having a near-perfect outing. If he delivers a few from the pocket against Cleveland, I think Rex would be elated to start him. 

[Hoss]

Rex says that Tyrod will play with the ones, Cassel with the 2s and EJ with the 3s on Thursday. Said EJ will play a majority of the game.

[musichunch]

Why not start EJ with the 2s?

[Huckleberry]

I don't know much about football but I could see Cassell and Taylor being matched up to different teams week to week based on their strengths.

 

Was thinking the same last month, but I don't follow football :p

[WildCard]

I don't know much about football but I could see Cassell and Taylor being matched up to different teams week to week based on their strengths.

Won't happen, that's how you end up with a divided locker room and no team identity. It's just too much flux

[Taro T]

I really liked Taylor last night. He looked like a junior-sized mix of Vick, Randall Cunningham and Eric Metcalf. If he can avoid the kill shots -- which he was able to do last night, but only with inches to spare -- he might be really something.

It'll be real interesting watching him w/ the 1's. IF he plays like he did Friday, they've found the starter.

 

Personally, I'm hoping they keep all 3 (assuming they all play like they previewed Friday). Would hate to have Tyrod get injured and then be left w/ Cassell & a street free agent learning a new offense. Though I'd keep all three, I expect there's something to the rumors they're shopping EJ and would not be at all surprised to see them trade him for a late round pick (5-6th round).

 

Too bad they didn't pick somebody mid-round in '11 or '12 when there were guys available. Sad part is, when all is said & done, they probably did choose the best of the bunch in '13. How does an entire draft class have not 1 GOOD QB? At least they traded down before picking him.

[Hoss]

No matter how much talk and thought I put into the Bills QB position, I always end up going back to the idea that this team simply doesn't draft QBs for some wildly stupid reason.

This team has drafted a whopping total of four QB's since 1997 (Jim Kelly retired). EJ Manuel and JP Losman in the first round, Trent Edwards in the third and Levi Brown in the seventh.

 

Looking at those drafts individually (presented without opinion):

1997: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Jake Plummer is the only successful QB from that draft. 

 

1998: 8 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Selected WR Fred Coleman (2 career catches) at 160, Matt Hasselback went 187. Selected OT Robert Hicks (3 years in NFL) at 68, Brian Griese went 91.

 

1999: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took TE Bobby Collins (16 career catches) at 122, Aaron Brooks went 131.

 

2000: 12 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took RB Sammy Morris (488 yards in 4 BUF seasons) at 156, Marc Bulger went 168. Bills took DT Leif Larsen (2 sacks in 2 seasons) at 194, Tom Brady went 199.

 

2001: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took CB Nate Clements (23 INTs for BUF) at 21, Drew Brees went 32.

 

2002: 15 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took DC/LB Coy Wire (21 starts) at 97, David Garrard went 108.

 

2003: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2004: 17 QBs taken (Losman to BUF). Hard to argue when they picked one in round 1. Matt Schaub (3rd) only notable QB taken after Losman.

 

2005: 14 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills traded selection 20 for Losman, Aaron Rodgers taken at 24.

 

2006: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills selected S Donte Whitner (66 starts in BUF) at 8, Jay Cutler went 11.

 

2007: 11 QBs taken (Edwards to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2008: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills selected Leodis McKelvin (current Bill) at 11, Joe Flacco went 16.

 

2009: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2010: 13 QBs taken (Brown to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2011: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills selected CB/S Aaron Williams (current Bill) at 34, Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick went 35 and 36.

 

2012: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills traded up and selected WR TJ Graham (already out of league) at 69, Russell Wilson went 75 and Nick Foles 88.

 

2013: 11 QBs taken (Manuel to BUF). Took Manuel at 16, no solid QBs have established themselves.

 

2014: 14 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Year after Manuel. Too early to tell.

 

2015: 7 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Too early to tell.

 

 

In that timeframe teams have drafted the following number of QBs:

 

11: New York Jets

10: Baltimore, Denver, Green Bay, San Diego, San Francisco

9: New England, Washington

8: Arizona, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland (did not draft in 97/98), Philadelphia, Seattle, St. Louis, Tampa Bay

7: Atlanta, Detroit, Houston (est. 2002), New York Giants

6: Carolina, Miami, Minnesota, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Tennessee

5: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Oakland

4: Buffalo

3: Dallas

 

Exactly half the league has drafted at least double the QBs the Bills have since Kelly retired.

 

 

This isn't really the time for this post as there's nothing that can be done right now... But I'll bring it back up next offseason. This shouldn't be an issue. The exclusively dumb way of thinking about the most important position in sports is mind numbing.

[Johnny DangerFace]

I would be interested in seeing that Hoss but with 3rd round selections or higher.  I view a pick in the first 3 rounds as a pretty big investment, but not so much for 4+

[tom webster]

No matter how much talk and thought I put into the Bills QB position, I always end up going back to the idea that this team simply doesn't draft QBs for some wildly stupid reason.

This team has drafted a whopping total of four QB's since 1997 (Jim Kelly retired). EJ Manuel and JP Losman in the first round, Trent Edwards in the third and Levi Brown in the seventh.

 

Looking at those drafts individually (presented without opinion):

1997: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Jake Plummer is the only successful QB from that draft.

 

1998: 8 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Selected WR Fred Coleman (2 career catches) at 160, Matt Hasselback went 187. Selected OT Robert Hicks (3 years in NFL) at 68, Brian Griese went 91.

 

1999: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took TE Bobby Collins (16 career catches) at 122, Aaron Brooks went 131.

 

2000: 12 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took RB Sammy Morris (488 yards in 4 BUF seasons) at 156, Marc Bulger went 168. Bills took DT Leif Larsen (2 sacks in 2 seasons) at 194, Tom Brady went 199.

 

2001: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took CB Nate Clements (23 INTs for BUF) at 21, Drew Brees went 32.

 

2002: 15 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills took DC/LB Coy Wire (21 starts) at 97, David Garrard went 108.

 

2003: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2004: 17 QBs taken (Losman to BUF). Hard to argue when they picked one in round 1. Matt Schaub (3rd) only notable QB taken after Losman.

 

2005: 14 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills traded selection 20 for Losman, Aaron Rodgers taken at 24.

 

2006: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills selected S Donte Whitner (66 starts in BUF) at 8, Jay Cutler went 11.

 

2007: 11 QBs taken (Edwards to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2008: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills selected Leodis McKelvin (current Bill) at 11, Joe Flacco went 16.

 

2009: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2010: 13 QBs taken (Brown to BUF). None notable available when Buffalo picked.

 

2011: 13 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills selected CB/S Aaron Williams (current Bill) at 34, Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick went 35 and 36.

 

2012: 11 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Bills traded up and selected WR TJ Graham (already out of league) at 69, Russell Wilson went 75 and Nick Foles 88.

 

2013: 11 QBs taken (Manuel to BUF). Took Manuel at 16, no solid QBs have established themselves.

 

2014: 14 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Year after Manuel. Too early to tell.

 

2015: 7 QBs taken (0 to BUF). Too early to tell.

 

 

In that timeframe teams have drafted the following number of QBs:

 

11: New York Jets

10: Baltimore, Denver, Green Bay, San Diego, San Francisco

9: New England, Washington

8: Arizona, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland (did not draft in 97/98), Philadelphia, Seattle, St. Louis, Tampa Bay

7: Atlanta, Detroit, Houston (est. 2002), New York Giants

6: Carolina, Miami, Minnesota, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Tennessee

5: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Oakland

4: Buffalo

3: Dallas

 

Exactly half the league has drafted at least double the QBs the Bills have since Kelly retired.

 

 

This isn't really the time for this post as there's nothing that can be done right now... But I'll bring it back up next offseason. This shouldn't be an issue. The exclusively dumb way of thinking about the most important position in sports is mind numbing.

What I see when I read this is that Buffalo hasn't really missed on anyone other then Russel Wilson in the last five years. Are we really going to blame them for passing in a bunch of stiffs? There is just a real shortage of viable QB's.