off topic Buffalo Bills 2015

[K-9]

Meh, it's just a cover sheet missing a signature.  I wouldn't beat up a paralegal over that.

Yeah. It as modified today. So nothing is amiss at this point. 

 

I'm unaware of what the case law will say about whether Brady's inability to play in 4 games will constitute irreparable harm. I can see a persuasive argument being made about how the nature of his employment is such that missing those 4 games is something that a money judgment cannot compensate -- the loss of a unique opportunity that can never be gained back if it's missed. I think irreparable harm may actually be his strongest contention.

 

And I think the labor law issues you've identified are where the NFLPA thinks it can make hay on its likelihood of success prong -- there's a peculiar set of rules in that area whereby an employee can prevail based on what may seem like technical grounds (e.g., an absence of some form or corollary of due process).

 

Like I said, if this were a non-CBA-related (garden variety) attempt to upset an arbitrator's decision, I think Brady would have almost no shot (absent a sympathetic court). But in the labor law arena, it seems he has more of a fighting chance. The pundit talk (FWIW) prior to yesterday's decision was trending in the direction of the NFL being in a potentially bad spot when it came to defending the suspension.

 

Interesting. The decision took time to come out because Goodell & Co. wanted to make the decision as sustainable as possible, and, apparently, wanted to tee up the papers necessary to commence an action in Manhattan seeking to have the decision ratified.

One thing is for sure, I am saying a prayer for whoever was responsible for effectuating the filing of the commencement papers in Manhattan. It may've been the attorney himself (not sure who that is - an in-house attorney? he's at Akin Gump apparently), although I sorta doubt that.

 

peeshardy.png

As I said earlier, I now understand why there were 40 people in that appeal hearing room. Those lawyers teed one up indeed!

 

I don't think the filing error impacts anything. It pertained to an attachment and was modified today. 

[That Aud Smell]

Yeah. It as modified today. So nothing is amiss at this point. 

 

I don't think the filing error impacts anything. It pertained to an attachment and was modified today. 

 

Yeah - it was pure clerical error, nothing substantive. I'm just referring to those moments when, in the context of what is presumably a hugely important matter, an email arrives (almost always read on a phone nowadays) indicating that something may have gone sideways. Oh, man. Heart palpitations, palms of hands sweat.

 

Different attorneys handle those moments differently. 

[musichunch]

I think what's REALLY going on here is that Goodell had to choose between one of the main cronies (Kraft) and the other owners. 

 

By cutting the suspension in half, it opens the door for the Patriots and paid shills media to come out and say "See, the NFL can barely prove it, that's why they cut the suspension in half". By upholding it, the NFL is saying "you did it and we're standing by it". It's a PR blow for the Pats, their Super Bowl, Brady's future marketing dollars legacy, and Kraft's power in the owner's room.

 

In a perfect world, Goodell would just sweep it under the rug, but with pressure from the other pissed off owners, Goodell was placed in a tough position and he sided with the majority. 

 

As for "did he do it?", do you think for a second the NFL would suspend Brady and anger one of the two most powerful owners in football if there was even a 1% doubt that he did?

Edited July 29, 2015 by musichunch

[Hoss]

Today there has been some talk in the media that the NFLPA will, among other things, be attacking that they didn't reduce the suspension despite doing so in so many other cases. It's a weak argument that I don't think will get much run in court because I don't think they'll have many other similar cases where the evidence got worse during the appeal process.

However, the NFL should feel a little stupid for creating such an expectation for reduction during the appeals process. Stand by your decisions more often.

[Taro T]

Ravens game?  or Colts game?

 

 

 

Ravens game in which they violated the spirit of the equal substitution rule by declaring a receiver "ineligible." The league closed that loophole in the offseason.

Yup. If they don't get away with violating the spirit of the rules @ minimum (and if you have to declare eligible/ineligible prior to entering the huddle rather than as you run up to the line of scrimmage, then actually violating the rules) they get killed by the Ravens and never get a chance to crush Indy.

[K-9]

Here are the grounds for Kessler's case. What say you, eleven? Others? Please read Goodell's ruling for context. 

 

@MikeGarafolo: 4 allegations of Brady suit

1. No advance notice of punishment

2. Not fair and consistent punishment

3. Unfair appeal

4. Goodell partial 

[WildCard]

Today there has been some talk in the media that the NFLPA will, among other things, be attacking that they didn't reduce the suspension despite doing so in so many other cases. It's a weak argument that I don't think will get much run in court because I don't think they'll have many other similar cases where the evidence got worse during the appeal process.

However, the NFL should feel a little stupid for creating such an expectation for reduction during the appeals process. Stand by your decisions more often.

From everything I've heard the NFL was willing to reduce it to 2, maybe even 1, game(s). Brady didn't want to take it though. Call it hubris or a passion for his legacy, but from what I've heard it's his own fault that there was no reduction

[Hoss]

From everything I've heard the NFL was willing to reduce it to 2, maybe even 1, game(s). Brady didn't want to take it though. Call it hubris or a passion for his legacy, but from what I've heard it's his own fault that there was no reduction

Yea there has been a few different reports. One is that Brady didn't want any games and another was that he wanted the report sealed. Either way he just looks like a total ass in this whole thing (so does the NFL).

I don't see a way that this ends well for Brady.

 

The NFL's evidence is also better than the "paper-thin" description the NFLPA gave it. They may not have rock solid evidence (aka video or admittance of guilt) but they have enough to convince anybody that he did it.

[Claude_Verret]

I don't follow all the NFL suspensions and appeals closely, but something tells me that in the vast majority of the situations where the penalty was reduced the player probably took responsibility for his actions and expressed remorse. Brady has instead only fed the fire with his childish antics.

[Taro T]

Yea there has been a few different reports. One is that Brady didn't want any games and another was that he wanted the report sealed. Either way he just looks like is a total ass in this whole thing (so does the NFL).

I don't see a way that this ends well for Brady.

The NFL's evidence is also better than the "paper-thin" description the NFLPA gave it. They may not have rock solid evidence (aka video or admittance of guilt) but they have enough to convince anybody that he did it.

Fixed it for ya. ;)

[Hoss]

Fixed it for ya. ;)

I wanted to sound unbiased haha :p

[Taro T]

I wanted to sound unbiased haha :p

Fair enough. :lol:

 

:beer:

[That Aud Smell]

Here are the grounds for Kessler's case. What say you, eleven? Others? Please read Goodell's ruling for context. 

 

@MikeGarafolo: 4 allegations of Brady suit

 

1. No advance notice of punishment

 

2. Not fair and consistent punishment

 

3. Unfair appeal

 

4. Goodell partial 

 

That's the one I keep seeing, and I keep seeing it listed first. Safe to infer that's because they feel it's their strongest argument. The NFL is not a public employer, but I get the sense that the concept of due process (advance notice of what constitutes a punishable act is key to that concept) may be interwoven in the application of the labor laws to private employers as well.

[K-9]

That's the one I keep seeing, and I keep seeing it listed first. Safe to infer that's because they feel it's their strongest argument. The NFL is not a public employer, but I get the sense that the concept of due process (advance notice of what constitutes a punishable act is key to that concept) may be interwoven in the application of the labor laws to private employers as well.

IMO, this argument about notice is weak. All the notice Brady needs concerning punishment for conduct detrimental, which is what Goodell suspended him for, is contained in Brady's own CBA 'Standard Player Contract.' The language is quite clear.

 

Also, I feel that their reliance on the precedence established in the Peterson case is wrong. Peterson argued that the NFL retroactively imposed a punishment that did not exist at the time Peterson committed the act; there was no notice available. Brady simply cannot make the same claim, again, given the language in his player contract.

 

Not that it matters, but there is a good chance the NFL will prevail in its appeal of the Peterson decision.

Edited July 30, 2015 by K-9

[That Aud Smell]

U.S. District Court Judge in Minnesota just bounced the NFLPA's lawsuit to Manhattan - and did so with some fairly choice words (and notably expedited timing).

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25254359/minnesota-court-sends-tom-brady-nflpa-lawsuit-to-manhattan

 

Advantage: NFL.

I had not realized or appreciated that the only reason the NFLPA would have for filing in Minnesota was to get the Judge who looked so kindly on the Adrian Peterson matter. I assumed there was some other basis for filing there - however attenuated. The Judge who transferred the matter remarked that there was no basis to venue the Brady matter in Minnesota.

[Eleven]

U.S. District Court Judge in Minnesota just bounced the NFLPA's lawsuit to Manhattan - and did so with some fairly choice words (and notably expedited timing).

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25254359/minnesota-court-sends-tom-brady-nflpa-lawsuit-to-manhattan

 

Advantage: NFL.

I had not realized or appreciated that the only reason the NFLPA would have for filing in Minnesota was to get the Judge who looked so kindly on the Adrian Peterson matter. I assumed there was some other basis for filing there - however attenuated. The Judge who transferred the matter remarked that there was no basis to venue the Brady matter in Minnesota.

 

Can you imagine our district court acting so quickly?  I mean, it's not the fault of the judges that they are swamped and that the Western District is lacking its full complement of judges, but I just can't imagine anything happening so quickly here.

I have Judge Kyle's full opinion if anyone is interested, but I have forgotten how to upload a .pdf to this site.

[That Aud Smell]

Can you imagine our district court acting so quickly?  I mean, it's not the fault of the judges that they are swamped and that the Western District is lacking its full complement of judges, but I just can't imagine anything happening so quickly here.

 

I hear you.

 

Given how high profile a matter it is (and given the time-sensitive nature of the NFLPA's application), I guess the prompt attention shouldn't be a huge surprise. Maybe something similar would happen here, given the same circumstances.

 

More lawyer nerding: I wonder if they designated the Brady matter as related to the Peterson matter on the civil cover sheet (thereby requesting Judge Doty [sic?]). I'd thought Judge Kyle was the Chief Judge of the District, and that he sorta intervened on an administrative basis. Not so. Dude's a Senior D.C.J. That seems to suggest he got the case based on a (virtual) spin of the wheel.

 

Edit: Not for nothing, Judge Kyle is an appointee of President GHW Bush (41).

Edited July 30, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[Eleven]

I hear you.

 

Given how high profile a matter it is (and given the time-sensitive nature of the NFLPA's application), I guess the prompt attention shouldn't be a huge surprise. Maybe something similar would happen here, given the same circumstances.

 

More lawyer nerding: I wonder if they designated the Brady matter as related to the Peterson matter on the civil cover sheet (thereby requesting Judge Doty [sic?]). I'd thought Judge Kyle was the Chief Judge of the District, and that he sorta intervened on an administrative basis. Not so. Dude's a Senior D.C.J. That seems to suggest he got the case based on a (virtual) spin of the wheel.

 

Edit: Not for nothing, Judge Kyle is an appointee of President GHW Bush (41).

 

Brady was also a named plaintiff in 2011, when the players challenged the lockout.  That case was in Minnesota, too.  But it wasn't Judge Doty.

 

The PACER docket indicates that Judge Kyle got the case through random assignment.

[WildCard]

@MikeReiss: Scene-setter: A Jets fan group is flying a plane over Patriots practice field that has a banner referring to Patriots as cheaters. 

Edited July 30, 2015 by WildCard

[drnkirishone]

I normally dislike jets fans. But this is great

[That Aud Smell]

^

 

/slow clap

[Sabre Dance]

IMHO, the Brady suspension is a warning shot across the Patriot's bow.  Nothing much ever came of the Spygate situation several years back, but many have speculated that the Patirot's continued success (despite their many changes in personnel) is somewhat suspicious in origin.  I think the league is letting the Pats know that they are being watched now and if they step out of line just a little (which is what this "Inflategate" is, really), they are going to get their pee-pee slapped but good.

Yes, Brady is an excellent QB (which galls me to admit).  Belichick is a very good coach, but he coached other teams before the Pats and did not have the same level of success.  Rumors have been passed around that members of the Patriots team have found booklets hanging in their lockers which list their opponents plays in great detail, including the terminology. Who knows if that is even remotely true, but the fact is that the longevity of the Pats' success is unusual, especially in this era of free agency.

I fully foresee that after Brady retires and Belichick goes on to coach another team (or retires), the whole story will come out.  I don't think Brady, Belichick or Kraft like to lose and it will be revealed that they engaged in a lot of hanky-panky to remain winners.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.  (Demented, perhaps, but not wrong  :blink: )

[wjag]

IMHO, the Brady suspension is a warning shot across the Patriot's bow.  Nothing much ever came of the Spygate situation several years back, but many have speculated that the Patirot's continued success (despite their many changes in personnel) is somewhat suspicious in origin.  I think the league is letting the Pats know that they are being watched now and if they step out of line just a little (which is what this "Inflategate" is, really), they are going to get their pee-pee slapped but good.

Yes, Brady is an excellent QB (which galls me to admit).  Belichick is a very good coach, but he coached other teams before the Pats and did not have the same level of success.  Rumors have been passed around that members of the Patriots team have found booklets hanging in their lockers which list their opponents plays in great detail, including the terminology. Who knows if that is even remotely true, but the fact is that the longevity of the Pats' success is unusual, especially in this era of free agency.

I fully foresee that after Brady retires and Belichick goes on to coach another team (or retires), the whole story will come out.  I don't think Brady, Belichick or Kraft like to lose and it will be revealed that they engaged in a lot of hanky-panky to remain winners.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.  (Demented, perhaps, but not wrong  :blink: )

I don't think you could keep quiet the fact they know other teams plays. In the era of free agency, that word would get out.

[musichunch]

IMHO, the Brady suspension is a warning shot across the Patriot's bow.  Nothing much ever came of the Spygate situation several years back, but many have speculated that the Patirot's continued success (despite their many changes in personnel) is somewhat suspicious in origin.  I think the league is letting the Pats know that they are being watched now and if they step out of line just a little (which is what this "Inflategate" is, really), they are going to get their pee-pee slapped but good.

Yes, Brady is an excellent QB (which galls me to admit).  Belichick is a very good coach, but he coached other teams before the Pats and did not have the same level of success.  Rumors have been passed around that members of the Patriots team have found booklets hanging in their lockers which list their opponents plays in great detail, including the terminology. Who knows if that is even remotely true, but the fact is that the longevity of the Pats' success is unusual, especially in this era of free agency.

I fully foresee that after Brady retires and Belichick goes on to coach another team (or retires), the whole story will come out.  I don't think Brady, Belichick or Kraft like to lose and it will be revealed that they engaged in a lot of hanky-panky to remain winners.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.  (Demented, perhaps, but not wrong  :blink: )

 

There has always been a different vibe with the Patriots compared to say, the Spurs. 

 

As Deflategate came out, a sports betting sharp came out with a very detailed article showing how the Patriots have had FAR less fumbles over the last 5 years compared to every other team in the league. Immediately after that article was written came a giant smear campaign against it. Deadspin jumped in on it (and with Gawker's shady funders, any agenda they push is suspicious) and wrote what I thought was a pretty low quality rebuttal. I still believe that article. Deflating footballs game after game may have saved them 20-30 fumbles over the last 5 years. One of possibly many shady tactics they use to gain an edge.

 

Of course if you remember, right after Deflategate, the meme became "It doesn't matter because they were blowing out the Colts anyway". The mind hive at Reddit would downvote any other opinion and would shove that idea down your throat with an authoritative tone (Reddit's founder tried to sell user information to a CIA-connected company a few years ago, just throwing it out there). ESPN has defended Brady far more than they were against him in my opinion. But it's not like ESPN has a conflict of interest with the NFL or anything. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the NFL and the sports media (who are mostly paid shills) haven't allowed discussion and investigation to go beyond the effect of deflating footballs. I do agree that the Patriots are now on Goodell's sh*tlist, but not because they care about cheating at all, but because the other NFL owner's are sick of the Patriot's successful run (cheating or not).

[deluca67]

IMO, all this bluster from the Patriots and the NFLPA about fairness in the hearing process is a calculated attempt to distract peoples attention from what should be the main focus. One of the premier franchises and it's biggest star got caught cheating (again) and got off relatively light. They know they have no chance in court, shown by their Hail-Mary attempt to get their case heard in Minnesota.  

 

I can't wait to see what the Patriots say the next time they are caught cheating, and we all know there will be a next time.