Sabres are ruining Murray's plan---what does he do??

[matter2003]

Things are not going as planned right now...Sabres have becomes one of the hottest teams in hockey winning 9 of their last 12 games and are one point away from being tied for 22nd in the NHL....far from the last place or 2nd last place team in the league, to cash in on the McDavid/Eichel sweepstakes, and starting to pull away from Carolina and Edmonton both of whom are languishing with 19 points...

 

So what does Murray do? Does he conduct another fire sale to try and get more high round picks for any of the tradeable components left on the roster like Myers, Stafford, Enroth etc?

 

Does he let this season play out the way it is going, with the Sabres now looking like they might actually be able to finish around 9th or 10th worst team in the league, pretty much destroying their chances at getting a franchise type player in McDavid or Eichel, or does he start making the roster worse for the short term for more long term gain.

 

Would the team be better in the long term for learning how to play together and win as a group during this tough season or would they be better losing good players and finishing at the bottom again?

 

Did Murray underestimate the talent level of the current team when he put it together? It looks like they needed to figure out how to play together but since that point they have played very well at times and have beaten some very good teams in the process, not necessarily because they have deserved to win many nights, but because they have gotten some outstanding goaltending, mostly from Enroth...plus the Moulson, Girgensons, Ennis line has become a terror out there...

 

What to do, what to do? This team is going to completely blow up the long term plan for this franchise, kind of like what happened in Major League...GM/owner are trying to lose but the players and coach start learning how to win spoiling their plan...

 

Very interesting to see what Murray does...

Edited December 14, 2014 by matter2003

[qwksndmonster]

You think Murray's plan is being ruined?

He's not worried.

Edited December 14, 2014 by qwksndmonster

[Johnny DangerFace]

Silly or not it is something he has to handle. I think we all assumed the obvious rebuild route was a bottom 2 finish this year, I think GMTM thought the same. It will be interesting to see if he forces it or let's the team go in a natural direction (up or down). Truth is probably in the middle. There are gonna be trades for sure, and with some key prospects no longer waiver exempt next year, call-ups wouldn't surprise me either

[Doohicksie]

I'll say it again: The only thing the Tank was for me was a consolation when they lost. If they lose enough, they might (MIGHT) get McEichel. But with the lottery, even that isn't probable, even if they finish dead last. Murray is too smart of a guy to depend on that scenario playing out. I'm not saying he thought the Sabres would turn it around, but that his plans are to build the team without a 1 or 2 overall pick. If he gets one of those two picks, hey, great, but I'm not sure he needs them to build a strong contender. Half (or more) of the current team won't be here opening night of 2016, and even with these temps they're starting to look pretty good. All it means is that we're ahead of schedule.

[qwksndmonster]

People get way too hung up on short term results. 30 games have been played so far in an 82 game season.

[...]

I've never been 100% convinced Murray was/is 100% into the tank. Pegula, yes. Black, yes.

 

He'd be a fool to strip this team of players willy nilly. I'll say that about a third of this roster is his doing, and he did extend Teddy, and then allowed Teddy to populate his staff. This recent success has his handprints all over it.

 

I think he will be more prudent in his tinkering, but I think he will still tinker. But for right now, he's going to watch and see what he has in this team; there is still plenty of time.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2014 by sizzlemeister

[JJFIVEOH]

I don't think the Sabres are ruining any plan. I think Murray plans to build a team that will be successful for several years. I don't think he had any plans on finishing in a certain spot. If it happened to be a bottom 2, fine. If it happened to be #8 playoff spot, fine. I said this before the start of the season and I'm sticking by it; in this day and age of parity, cap floor and free agency.... it is almost impossible to plan for a last place finish. When you have open spaces that need to be filled and a cap floor to hit, you're going to have players on your team that will net you some wins over the course of the season like it or not. The best way to assure a last place finish is by doing what the Sabres did last year, unloading all their talent and not having to bring in free agents. They did so, the ship has sailed. Murray knows this. (I can't figure out Edmonton)

 

If Murray had planned to attempt a last place finish, he wouldn't have signed Gionta, Moulson and traded for Gorges. Considering their multi-year contracts, they are here to help build and contribute when this team is good enough to make the playoffs. These players aren't fill-ins for a year or two. Murray is going to sit back and watch how the season pans out, and believe it or not, he may actually be ecstatic about the recent success. He isn't going to do anything to make the team worse to attempt a bottom two finish. If he makes any moves, it will be because somebody wants out or somebody doesn't plan on re-signing next year. Don't be surprised if Myers doesn't go anywhere, and don't be surprised to see Stafford stay as well.

[SabresBaltimore]

These young kids need to learn now while it's tough to help them later when it's easier. The difference between a good team and a great one are those teams that don't quit and win the bad games and pull out the upsets because they believe they can.

 

I'm too much of a pessimist that we'd ever get McDavid anyways. I don't know if Eichel will have that much of an impact. Hell no one knows for sure if McDavid will. So even if we finish last and lost the lottery again who knows. Plus that's only 1 guy. The Penguins didn't win the cup because they got Crosby. They won because of Maulkin, Stahl, Fluery AND Crosby (among others). I'm not really convinced we're one young "generational" player away from a cup. Would I like McDavid? Sure, but the chances of us getting him even if finish last are only 20% unless one of our other first round picks (Islanders, Blues) also finish in the lottery, and I don't see that happening. Not unless Tavaras goes down again.

 

I think this is good for the young players we already have and therefore good for the future.

 

Edit fixed some typos.

Edited December 14, 2014 by SabresBaltimore

[Claude_Verret]

Not panic in December.

[Brawndo]

Things are not going as planned right now...Sabres have becomes one of the hottest teams in hockey winning 9 of their last 12 games and are one point away from being tied for 22nd in the NHL....far from the last place or 2nd last place team in the league, to cash in on the McDavid/Eichel sweepstakes, and starting to pull away from Carolina and Edmonton both of whom are languishing with 19 points...

 

So what does Murray do? Does he conduct another fire sale to try and get more high round picks for any of the tradeable components left on the roster like Myers, Stafford, Enroth etc?

 

Does he let this season play out the way it is going, with the Sabres now looking like they might actually be able to finish around 9th or 10th worst team in the league, pretty much destroying their chances at getting a franchise type player in McDavid or Eichel, or does he start making the roster worse for the short term for more long term gain.

 

Would the team be better in the long term for learning how to play together and win as a group during this tough season or would they be better losing good players and finishing at the bottom again?

 

Did Murray underestimate the talent level of the current team when he put it together? It looks like they needed to figure out how to play together but since that point they have played very well at times and have beaten some very good teams in the process, not necessarily because they have deserved to win many nights, but because they have gotten some outstanding goaltending, mostly from Enroth...plus the Moulson, Girgensons, Ennis line has become a terror out there...

 

What to do, what to do? This team is going to completely blow up the long term plan for this franchise, kind of like what happened in Major League...GM/owner are trying to lose but the players and coach start learning how to win spoiling their plan...

 

Very interesting to see what Murray does...

 

I posted this in the trade speculation thread, but it is relevant here as well. I believe this is the closest we will get to knowing what Murray's Plan is for this year.

 

GMTM was on WGR and had this to say "We are rebuilding, we have not forgotten that fact even though we are playing well thats great but we are rebuilding and you just try to accumulate assets and at this point in my career, my job in Buffalo thats my job right now"

 

http://media.wgr550....tm?pageid=28473

 

Quote starts around 7:48.

 

Murray could be watching the standings and have a point of no return in mind on when to trade assets.

 

Or his plan could change as they keep winning. Time will tell

[bob_sauve28]

I'll say it again: The only thing the Tank was for me was a consolation when they lost. If they lose enough, they might (MIGHT) get McEichel. But with the lottery, even that isn't probable, even if they finish dead last. Murray is too smart of a guy to depend on that scenario playing out. I'm not saying he thought the Sabres would turn it around, but that his plans are to build the team without a 1 or 2 overall pick. If he gets one of those two picks, hey, great, but I'm not sure he needs them to build a strong contender. Half (or more) of the current team won't be here opening night of 2016, and even with these temps they're starting to look pretty good. All it means is that we're ahead of schedule.

Just win baby!

 

I've come to believe that winning breads more winning. People gain confidence with their teammates and it takes on a culture. I was for the tank when I thought we were so bad, but this team is coming together and I really like this team. We are six points behind the Bruins now. The playoffs are not that much of a pipe dream at all. I'd love it they made the playoffs and knocked off Montreal or Tampa in the first round. That would be awesome!

 

The future is already bright with the players they have coming up and the young ones in place. If they had a power play specialist or a high scoring player through trade--Sabres buyers at the trade dead line??--or free agent in off season they will get much better. If this team had a decent power play they would be in the middle of the pack right now. Fixing the power play will only take one player, IMO, Moulson, Ennis, Grigs are fine already.

 

Don't be surprised if Myers doesn't go anywhere, and don't be surprised to see Stafford stay as well.

I'd be furious if Myers left in a bad trade. Not sure what to think about Drew. So many times we have waited for him to turn the corner and leave his garage band behind and become a veteran hard nose player and he has disappointed. He looks ready to become that veteran player again, but his contract is almost up.

[X. Benedict]

I don't think the plan was ever to be as bad of a hockey team that we saw in October.

 

 

 

 

 

[sicknfla]

Good article the other day by ESPN about the Lakers tanking. I can't seem to get it to link up but I an sure someone can help me out.

 

As for Murray I think he lets it go to the halfway point. If we are still playing this way after 10 more games then he has no choice but to continue to do what he can to win NOW. If we crash back to earth then it might be full tank ahead.

Edited December 14, 2014 by sicknfla

[LGR4GM]

I'll say it again: The only thing the Tank was for me was a consolation when they lost. If they lose enough, they might (MIGHT) get McEichel. But with the lottery, even that isn't probable, even if they finish dead last. Murray is too smart of a guy to depend on that scenario playing out. I'm not saying he thought the Sabres would turn it around, but that his plans are to build the team without a 1 or 2 overall pick. If he gets one of those two picks, hey, great, but I'm not sure he needs them to build a strong contender. Half (or more) of the current team won't be here opening night of 2016, and even with these temps they're starting to look pretty good. All it means is that we're ahead of schedule.

Like Sam Reinhart? I mean we drafted Sam Reinhart and it's like everyone is just ignoring his existence.

[bob_sauve28]

Good article the other day by ESPN about the Lakers tanking. I can't seem to get it to link up but I an sure someone can help me out.

 

As for Murray I think he lets it go to the halfway point. If we are still playing this way after 10 more games then he has no choice but to continue to do what he can to win NOW. If we crash back to earth then it might be full tank ahead.

One rocky road ahead I think will be how the young defenseman handle a full NHL season. Risto looked a little tired last night, but Nikita looked out of this world. Long season, though. Getting Starchan back will help a lot.

[LGR4GM]

These young kids need to learn now while it's tough to help them later when it's easier. The difference between a good team and a great one are those teams that don't quit and win the bad games and pull out the upsets because they believe they can.

 

I'm too much of a pessimist that we'd ever get McDavid anyways. I don't know if Eichel will have that much of an impact. Hell no one knows for sure if McDavid will. So even if we finish last and lost the lottery again who knows. Plus that's only 1 guy. The Penguins didn't win the cup because they got Crosby. They won because of Maulkin, Stahl, Fluery AND Crosby (among others). I'm not really convinced we're one young "generational" player away from a cup. Would I like McDavid? Sure, but the chances of us getting him even if finish last are only 20% unless one of our other first round picks (Islanders, Blues) also finish in the lottery, and I don't see that happening. Not unless Tavaras goes down again.

 

I think this is good for the young players we already have and therefore good for the future.

 

Edit fixed some typos.

I hate to do this but...

"They won because of Maulkin, Stahl, Fluery AND Crosby"

 

Crosby 1st overall

Staal 2nd overall

Malkin 2nd overall

Fluery 1st overall

 

I agree with your point but the Penguins are the antithesis of a tank and win franchise.

 

Oh and Jack Eichel is good, really really good.

Edited December 14, 2014 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

Like Sam Reinhart? I mean we drafted Sam Reinhart and it's like everyone is just ignoring his existence.

It's cause Samson didn't put up an 85 point rookie year like we all know McEichel will, so therefore he doesn't count as a top two pick. :unsure:

[Stoner]

Murray has said he doesn't like the idea of a five-year rebuild and he has said he would even trade of picks and prospects for NHL-ready players. He extended Nolan, whose track record with little talent is well known. He added some decent NHL talent last summer.

 

Despite all that, what if Murray is happy to let the impression exist out there that he wants to tank? Expectations are lowered, the kids are protected, the fans and media keep their claws retracted, for a while longer.

[SwampD]

I hate to do this but...

"They won because of Maulkin, Stahl, Fluery AND Crosby"

 

Crosby 1st overall

Staal 2nd overall

Malkin 2nd overall

Fluery 1st overall

 

I agree with your point but the Penguins are the antithesis of a tank and win franchise.

 

Oh and Jack Eichel is good, really really good.

I think you meant the antithesis of antithesis there.

 

 

As far as the plan, we are 2nd to last in the East with more games played. We are fourth from last in the league. We are winning at an unsustainable pace. There is 2/3rds of the season left. I think the tank is if not secure, it is at least still within our reach. Who cares anyway. How do other team make the playoffs and stay there if they never draft 1 or 2 (which we've already done)?

 

Only in Buffalo (I refuse to say "because Buffalo") could fourth from the bottom be too good.

[PromoTheRobot]

If they really wanted to tank they would have kept Rolston.

[SwampD]

If they really wanted to tank they would have kept Rolston.

Also, if it ever gets in jeopardy, all they have to do is put Ennis back at center.

[LGR4GM]

I think you meant the antithesis of antithesis there.

 

 

As far as the plan, we are 2nd to last in the East with more games played. We are fourth from last in the league. We are winning at an unsustainable pace. There is 2/3rds of the season left. I think the tank is if not secure, it is at least still within our reach. Who cares anyway. How do other team make the playoffs and stay there if they never draft 1 or 2 (which we've already done)?

 

Only in Buffalo (I refuse to say "because Buffalo") could fourth from the bottom be too good.

You are correct, I misspoke.

[respk]

I really hope Murray doesn't abandon the tank for a few meaningless wins or even the chance to lose a first round playoff. It just isn't worth it to miss out on a chance at McEichel and an improved rebuild. As a semi famous man once said "Sometimes, you have to pass on the good things to achieve the greater things." :-)

[dudacek]

GMTM was on WGR and had this to say "We are rebuilding, we have not forgotten that fact even though we are playing well thats great but we are rebuilding and you just try to accumulate assets and at this point in my career, my job in Buffalo thats my job right now"

 

I think that quote was pretty straightforward: I'm not keeping UFAs past the trade deadline; I'm not trading futures away for today.

The only way I'll accept a trade means Murray wants to finish last is if he dumps Myers for players who can't play now. Any other sell-off was always going to happen.

 

Murray has said he doesn't like the idea of a five-year rebuild and he has said he would even trade of picks and prospects for NHL-ready players. He extended Nolan, whose track record with little talent is well known. He added some decent NHL talent last summer.

 

Despite all that, what if Murray is happy to let the impression exist out there that he wants to tank? Expectations are lowered, the kids are protected, the fans and media keep their claws retracted, for a while longer.

 

This man gets it.

Edited December 14, 2014 by dudacek

[nfreeman]

I don't think the Sabres are ruining any plan. I think Murray plans to build a team that will be successful for several years. I don't think he had any plans on finishing in a certain spot. If it happened to be a bottom 2, fine. If it happened to be #8 playoff spot, fine. I said this before the start of the season and I'm sticking by it; in this day and age of parity, cap floor and free agency.... it is almost impossible to plan for a last place finish. When you have open spaces that need to be filled and a cap floor to hit, you're going to have players on your team that will net you some wins over the course of the season like it or not. The best way to assure a last place finish is by doing what the Sabres did last year, unloading all their talent and not having to bring in free agents. They did so, the ship has sailed. Murray knows this. (I can't figure out Edmonton)

 

If Murray had planned to attempt a last place finish, he wouldn't have signed Gionta, Moulson and traded for Gorges. Considering their multi-year contracts, they are here to help build and contribute when this team is good enough to make the playoffs. These players aren't fill-ins for a year or two. Murray is going to sit back and watch how the season pans out, and believe it or not, he may actually be ecstatic about the recent success. He isn't going to do anything to make the team worse to attempt a bottom two finish. If he makes any moves, it will be because somebody wants out or somebody doesn't plan on re-signing next year. Don't be surprised if Myers doesn't go anywhere, and don't be surprised to see Stafford stay as well.

 

Good post. I agree especially with the bolded.

 

Also, I really don't think Stafford will be retained, but it's not impossible, and I don't think Myers is going anywhere.

 

Just win baby! I've come to believe that winning breads more winning. People gain confidence with their teammates and it takes on a culture. I was for the tank when I thought we were so bad, but this team is coming together and I really like this team. We are six points behind the Bruins now. The playoffs are not that much of a pipe dream at all. I'd love it they made the playoffs and knocked off Montreal or Tampa in the first round. That would be awesome!

 

The future is already bright with the players they have coming up and the young ones in place. If they had a power play specialist or a high scoring player through trade--Sabres buyers at the trade dead line??--or free agent in off season they will get much better. If this team had a decent power play they would be in the middle of the pack right now. Fixing the power play will only take one player, IMO, Moulson, Ennis, Grigs are fine already.

 

I'd be furious if Myers left in a bad trade. Not sure what to think about Drew. So many times we have waited for him to turn the corner and leave his garage band behind and become a veteran hard nose player and he has disappointed. He looks ready to become that veteran player again, but his contract is almost up.

 

That would be fantastic.

 

Like Sam Reinhart? I mean we drafted Sam Reinhart and it's like everyone is just ignoring his existence.

 

True, but we should remember that some draft picks are washouts, and some are decent but don't live up to their draft position, and that none of them can be counted on until we actually see it at the NHL level -- which we sho-nuff didn't see from Reinhart this year.

 

I think that quote was pretty straightforward: I'm not keeping UFAs past the trade deadline; I'm not trading futures away for today. The only way I'll accept Murray a trade means wants to finish last is if he dumps Myers for players who can't play now. Any other sell-off was always going to happen.

 

This.