off topic Star Wars - now with SPOILERS! (Read at your own risk)

[ubkev]

d4rk, I agree with most of this. But you've gotta admit, the Duel of the Fates was totally bad ass!

[darksabre]

d4rk, I agree with most of this. But you've gotta admit, the Duel of the Fates was totally bad ass!

It could have been better. But it's hardly the worst part of the movie.

 

For the record, I still like the pod racing. Kid me loved it, and I think adult me still likes it. As a plot device it's kinda weird, but at least it's fun. 

[ubkev]

It could have been better. But it's hardly the worst part of the movie.

 

For the record, I still like the pod racing. Kid me loved it, and I think adult me still likes it. As a plot device it's kinda weird, but at least it's fun.

Ugh!

[darksabre]

Ugh!

Who doesn't love sh*tloads of CGI?!  :P

[ubkev]

Who doesn't love sh*tloads of CGI?! :P

Lol

 

I was going to challenge you to a nerd fight, but then I remembered that these are the prequels we are talking about here.

[darksabre]

Lol

 

I was going to challenge you to a nerd fight, but then I remembered that these are the prequels we are talking about here.

 

:lol:

[GoPre]

You gotta remember, the original movies stories were reigned in by Lucas' friends/producers/etc. He was all over the place. I have no doubt he's capable of writing deep plots and stories. They're just not any good.

 

 

 

Now, I just got done re-watching Episode 1 and I have to say, I think it still sucks. But not because it's necessarily bad. It's just wrong. 

 

One of the charms of the original Star Wars trilogy was how intimate every scene felt. Almost everything was very tight camera work, with the actors being the focal point. Phantom Menace is the exact opposite. Now, to be fair, a lot of movies from this time period suffer from being too vast. CGI was really becoming a thing and they wanted to show it off. But it totally kills the feel of the movie. There's no contrast between intimate and jarringly overwhelming. Take the big Death Star reveal in ANH. Outside of some landscape shots on Tattooine you've been looking at things in a pretty narrow lense. Then all of a sudden you're overwhelmed with the bigness of the Death Star. You don't get this in Phantom Menace. It's just scene after scene of grandiose CGI work. It's hard to feel like you're a part of the movie. You feel like a spectator. Not to mention the CGI, which someone should have been smart enough to realize then was not the way to go, has not held up over time.

 

I think Episode 1 turns out a lot different if exploiting CGI wasn't the only place where any work was put in. 

 

This movie also has a penchant for being overly verbose and for being far too explanatory. There are a number of times in the movie where you're almost expecting characters to break the fourth wall for a few moments. Organic conversations are interrupted by weird "hey, this is what this is in case you were wondering" moments that could very well have just been left out. For example, when Palpatine tells the trade federation dudes he's sending Darth Maul to go hunt down the Queen. All he has to do is stop there. "Hey, I'm sending this bad motherf*cker." But he doesn't. Hologram Palpatine brings Hologram Maul into the hologram with him, like "HEY HERE HE IS IDIOTS REMEMBER HIM FOR LATER". Completely unnecessary! We'd have figured it out! You could have just had him show up on Tattooine later and we'd all have been like "OH SH*T IT'S THAT GUY PALPATINE WAS TALKIN BOUT." This movie doesn't let you put the pieces together on your own. It just 'splains them to you. There are a ton of other examples of this in the movie that just totally ruins it. 

 

Is this movie for kids? Maybe. Probably. It shouldn't have been though. It should have been like the originals. Just plain old Sci-Fi. Instead we've got wanna be high fantasy or something. I don't even know. It just doesn't make a lick of sense. 

 

Now, moving on to the Darth Jar Jar theory. I don't see quite as much evidence for it as the author of the reddit piece does. Some of his observations are reaches. BUT...the one real sticking point with me is Jar Jar and his fellow Gungans. This whole situation is why I think the theory is right. He starts the movie having been goddamn EXILED from his home. You don't just get exiled for peanuts. He glosses over it just like any criminal would who has done something really really unsavory. And it's true, when they show up at the Gungan city, the other Gungans are clearly far more concerned that Jar Jar is back than that the Jedi are there. They put Jar Jar in IRONS. 

 

Where it gets really weird, is when Jar Jar gets released to the Jedi, they go off doing some adventuring, and then when he comes back to find the Gungans on Naboo later, suddenly he manages to convince Boss Nass to make him a f*cking General? And all of them totally love him now? And no one is even remotely concerned anymore about the whole BEING EXILED thing? 

 

That's really the red flag. Some of the other stuff is kinda iffy, but Jar Jar and the other Gungans is the weirdest part of the movie. It makes no sense. None. 

 

If Disney was smart they'd completely remake the prequels. They could be so good. They're just a product of their time and of some really poor judgment. 

 

 

If felt as if George Lucas began to tell himself Star Wars was a franchise meant for children.  As you said, Lucas had to explain everything in Episode 1. Took away audience involvement. That really bothered me. Lucas seemed to realize he made that mistake w/ Episodes 1 and 2 and decided to make Episode 3 a bit more for everyone. Revenge of the Sith was the first PG-13 Star Wars movie. Granted, there was no PG-13 rating in the late 70's/early 80's, but I really think Lucas had the idea Star Wars had to be PG when he started to make the prequels. 

 

Same went for Indiana Jones and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Holy smokes that was focused on the younger audience. Gerbils, Soviets being gunned down w/out a drop of blood, Mutt going Tarzan, etc.... Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was another disappointment. 

 

For franchises I like a lot, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Middle Earth (LOTR and The Hobbit) I'll appreciate every movie made. Something is better than nothing.... I guess. Of course I contradict myself on this one. If a 4th Back to the Future was announced I'd be going WTF route. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Thanes16

[qwksndmonster]

The biggest problem in the Phantom Menace is the characters.  They're all terrible/nonexistent

[GoPre]

The biggest problem in the Phantom Menace is the characters.  They're all terrible/nonexistent

 

Prior to release of Phantom Menance, didn't Liam Neeson say it'd be one of his final movies? Maybe his lack of satisfaction w/ his performance/movie played a role in his decision to continue acting. 

 

Obi-Wan is an exception in the character department. Ewan McGregor and his role as Obi-Wan was one of a very few good things in Episode 1. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Thanes16

[MattPie]

The biggest problem in the Phantom Menace is the characters.  They're all terrible/nonexistent

 

I read somewhere the extensive use of green screen meant at times the actors were alone on set even when there were other actors on set. It's pretty tough to act when there's nothing coming back at you.

 

If felt as if George Lucas began to tell himself Star Wars was a franchise meant for children.  As you said, Lucas had to explain everything in Episode 1. Took away audience involvement. That really bothered me. Lucas seemed to realize he made that mistake w/ Episodes 1 and 2 and decided to make Episode 3 a bit more for everyone. Revenge of the Sith was the first PG-13 Star Wars movie. Granted, there was no PG-13 rating in the late 70's/early 80's, but I really think Lucas had the idea Star Wars had to be PG when he started to make the prequels. 

 

Same went for Indiana Jones and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Holy smokes that was focused on the younger audience. Gerbils, Soviets being gunned down w/out a drop of blood, Mutt going Tarzan, etc.... Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was another disappointment. 

 

For franchises I like a lot, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Middle Earth (LOTR and The Hobbit) I'll appreciate every movie made. Something is better than nothing.... I guess. Of course I contradict myself on this one. If a 4th Back to the Future was announced I'd be going WTF route. 

 

I think the Hobbit fell into the same trap. I only saw the first of the three, but that was so much aimed-at-8-year-old nonsense I didn't make an effort to see the rest. The part where my brain just shut down was the goblin chasm fall that took like 22 minutes and after falling what had to be several miles into the earth bouncing off rocks the entire way they all land and get up with a few groans. F'ing Looney Tunes.

[qwksndmonster]

I read somewhere the extensive use of green screen meant at times the actors were alone on set even when there were other actors on set. It's pretty tough to act when there's nothing coming back at you.

 

I have heard an interview where Ewan McGregor says "All that green, it's a nightmare."

 

But I'm not even talking about acting, I'm talking about the script. There's nothing there. Ewan spends the entire movie whining and sitting around, and then wants to train Anakin because "It's what Liam Neeson wanted." Oh man, good thing you didn't train him because you like him or something.

[drnkirishone]

To be honest... the hobbit is a kids book

[qwksndmonster]

To be honest... the hobbit is a kids book

And the hobbit movies are a soulless cash grab. Just because something is for children, doesn't mean it has to suck.

[WildCard]

And the hobbit movies are a soulless cash grab. Just because something is for children, doesn't mean it has to suck.

Amen brother, amen. 

[darksabre]

I have heard an interview where Ewan McGregor says "All that green, it's a nightmare."

 

But I'm not even talking about acting, I'm talking about the script. There's nothing there. Ewan spends the entire movie whining and sitting around, and then wants to train Anakin because "It's what Liam Neeson wanted." Oh man, good thing you didn't train him because you like him or something.

The script was definitely bad. And they would have figured that out if they hadn't spent so much time worrying about how the movie was going to look. They must have taken every shot and then been like "man, this is gonna look great!" without giving any thought to whether it would be great. 

[qwksndmonster]

The script was definitely bad. And they would have figured that out if they hadn't spent so much time worrying about how the movie was going to look. They must have taken every shot and then been like "man, this is gonna look great!" without giving any thought to whether it would be great.

It doesn't even look good. They certainly put a lot of stuff in the frame, though.

[DarthEbriate]

The script was definitely bad. And they would have figured that out if they hadn't spent so much time worrying about how the movie was going to look. They must have taken every shot and then been like "man, this is gonna look great!" without giving any thought to whether it would be great. 

For the prequels, Lucas heard that a golden rule of storytelling is, "show, don't tell." But he and his staff misinterpreted that to be, "Use CGI, don't use words."

 

The originals had some exposition-heavy moments (mostly from Ben or ghost-Ben), but the only other telling was the opening crawl. From the time the words faded until the credits, all three films were pretty solid in showing us the story.

[darksabre]

It doesn't even look good. They certainly put a lot of stuff in the frame, though.

 

I think it looked good to them then. It really was cool stuff at the time. But they should have realized that it was a technology that wasn't done improving and would end up not aging well. Puppets? Those aged well. Models? Aged well. The original trilogy looks fine to this day. But the prequels are painful considering what we're used to now regarding CGI. And it was probably predictable. 

[LGR4GM]

Practical effects versus CGI

[darksabre]

Practical effects versus CGI

 

There's a reason the new ones are using as much practical as possible. They know it matters. I hope they nail down the feel too. 

[LGR4GM]

There's a reason the new ones are using as much practical as possible. They know it matters. I hope they nail down the feel too. 

Good they should. Look at Jurassic Park versus the 3rd one. Or look at Mad Max Fury Road which was 90% practical effects.

[LGR4GM]

[WildCard]

Brand new trailer with tons of new footage, from Japan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAUiyeJMFQ

[Brawndo]

That trailer is freaking awesome

[WildCard]

That trailer is freaking awesome

Right? I don't know what it is, but Japan usually has better trailers for everything. There have been a few times I've been stoked for a premier and have found a Japanese trailer that is just so much cooler