off topic Star Wars - now with SPOILERS! (Read at your own risk)

[GoPre]

I didn't take it that way at all.  I saw that as an error in judgment by Ren.

 

As an error in strength of force. Ren felt he wouldn't have a problem in getting the info from Rey. He was proven wrong. 

[Hoss]

The map was not needed. Ren felt Rey had everything the first order needed. He completely ditched the pursuit of any droid. Rey knew where Luke was. She was in no need of BB8 or R2D2. 

Kylo felt Rey was all he needed because he knew she had seen the map. I thought that was very clearly indicated. That's why he ditched the pursuit of BB8.

Your theory also doesn't mesh with the need for R2D2 to ever wake up. They made it a big moment when he woke up and completed the map because they needed that to find Luke, not because holographic puzzles are cool to look at.

[GoPre]

Kylo felt Rey was all he needed because he knew she had seen the map. I thought that was very clearly indicated. That's why he ditched the pursuit of BB8.

Your theory also doesn't mesh with the need for R2D2 to ever wake up. They made it a big moment when he woke up and completed the map because they needed that to find Luke, not because holographic puzzles are cool to look at.

 

Abrams said the R2D2 moment was to simply take people's minds off of Han Solo's death. It wasn't needed. He said it himself. Look it up. 

[Ogre]

Here it is, it is believed he is saying Face Me, then curses.

 

First time I thought I heard cousin. Pretty sure once I hear more that it's clearly curses. I'm not married to any storyline. How cool would it be if Rey was the child of Galen Marek(I mean his clone) and Juno Eclipse? Another nod to Vader and a more fitting tribute to a great sub plot in the franchise.(better than naming the super weapon Starkiller).

The more I speculate about marek the more it makes sense to me. He was largely self taught and often learned new techniques on the fly....Oh how I love to speculate!

[Hoss]

Abrams said the R2D2 moment was to simply take people's minds off of Han Solo's death. It wasn't needed. He said it himself. Look it up.

That's like the complete opposite of what he said: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens

 

He actually said his awakening was for him to complete the map. And he says his awakening was triggered by BB8 telling him he had the rest of the map.

[GoPre]

That's like the complete opposite of what he said: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens

 

He actually said his awakening was for him to complete the map. And he says his awakening was triggered by BB8 telling him he had the rest of the map.

 

And from the same article,

 

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”

 

 

R2D2's awakening was not needed. Look into the entire movie. Rey had glimpses of where Luke was at. Ren believed in them. If he was strong enough in the force, he would have been able to get Luke's location. Ren was too weak. Rey was able to keep that info away from him. 

[Hoss]

And from the same article,

 

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”

 

 

R2D2's awakening was not needed. Look into the entire movie. Rey had glimpses of where Luke was at. Ren believed in them. If he was strong enough in the force, he would have been able to get Luke's location. Ren was too weak. Rey was able to keep that info away from him. 

That's still not what Abrams said there. He's just saying the timing is convenient because of the death. But he's not saying he woke up purely to make people feel better.

R2D2's whole story line was not needed. They could've easily made them steal the rest of the map from the planet while they were in there to save Rey... But that didn't happen.

He was working to get the map out of her. He believed he would've gotten it but didn't.

 

The entire movie was based around getting this piece of the map to the resistance to complete the puzzle on how to find Luke... They finally get R2D2 to wake up and he shows them the rest of the map in a big moment towards the very end of the movie... Then Rey is there... Because the plot of the movie was complete as was the map. This is pretty cut and dry.

[deluca67]

I still want to know how Finn with the light saber didn't cut right through that other storm troopers electric stick thing.

Why do Storm Troopers wear the armor, it doesn't protect them. All it seems to accomplish is to hinder their ability to move and shoot. 

 

Overall the movie was a huge disappointment. I wish they had spent less time designing the different Trooper uniforms and actually come up with an original story. Seriously, a Death Star Planet?  R2D2 with more hidden plans? How much memory does that out of date unit have? How is a young scavenger girl able to kick the ass of the big bad without any training? She suddenly knows how to block out others from entering her mind. Half way through the movie I started referring to Ren as Darth Sucks. He has to be the worst Dark Side apprentice in all the movies, including Darth Maul who lasted about a total of 5 minutes. In the end this was like watching those Brady Bunch reunion movies from the eighties.

 

I'll be waiting for the next two movies to hit HBO, George Lucas gets no more of my money.   

[ubkev]

Why do Storm Troopers wear the armor, it doesn't protect them. All it seems to accomplish is to hinder their ability to move and shoot.

 

Overall the movie was a huge disappointment. I wish they had spent less time designing the different Trooper uniforms and actually come up with an original story. Seriously, a Death Star Planet? R2D2 with more hidden plans? How much memory does that out of date unit have? How is a young scavenger girl able to kick the ass of the big bad without any training? She suddenly knows how to block out others from entering her mind. Half way through the movie I started referring to Ren as Darth Sucks. He has to be the worst Dark Side apprentice in all the movies, including Darth Maul who lasted about a total of 5 minutes. In the end this was like watching those Brady Bunch reunion movies from the eighties.

 

I'll be waiting for the next two movies to hit HBO, George Lucas gets no more of my money.

 

 

Hahahahahaha! Thank you DeLuca!

[GoPre]

The base in Episode VII is called Starkiller. Wonder how many know that was the original last name for Luke? Lucas eventually switched it to Skywalker. Glad he did. Starkiller just doesn't sound right. 

Edited December 27, 2015 by Thanes16

[sodbuster]

I was unimpressed with Snoke. I was a big fan of the EU and felt if they strayed from it then Plagiues should be the big baddie. After all, it's assumed that Plagiues' created Anakin with midichlorian manipulation, right? How cool would it be that his ultimate plan was just now taking shape? It would also be a cool storyline if Snoke was one of Luke's earliest apprentices gone bad. That would explain why Snoke is so fearful of Luke. His face looks like it could have one hell of a light saber wound.No matter how I look at it I was very disappointed that he looked more like star wars' Gollum. Not very original.

Overall I thought the movie was good. I like Rey as Luke's daughter. After his attempts to revive the Jedi order fails he moves on from the resistance and takes a wife. In a bid to destroy Luke, Kylo kills her and their daughter is hidden. That vision that Rey had with Luke and R2 mourning. That's a funeral pyre they are at? Seems like the direction Disney is taking Star Wars keeps the story a family drama?

Rey seems too young to be Ben's twin but cousin makes sense. Is there any truth to the rumor that Kylo uses the line "Face me, cousin!" In the infinity game?

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3702214?utm_source=fb-channel-superheroes&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=supreme-leader-snoke-s-role-in-star-wars-episode-8-revealed-by-john-williams

 

So maybe Snoke is Plagiues?

[qwksndmonster]

Starkiller is the name of Vader's (elsewise nonexistant) apprentice from the Force Unleashed video game. It was already a dumbname that got re-used in the movie. Laaaame.

[clintwestwood]

A few things here, mostly just my opinion.

 

1. Snoke is Plagueis. They specifically reference him as wise twice in the movie, which Plagueis was/is known as. Also Snoke's theme is basically exactly the same as the theme played when Palpatine was talking to Anakin about Plagueis in Episode 3. Would make sense since it would make him the bad guy behind the scenes of all 9 movies.

2. R2D2 definitely woke up because Rey was present. Rey is Luke's daughter. That lightsaber is specifically passed down in the Skywalker family.

3. At the end of the movie when they show Luke, it appears as though he's standing in front of a makeshift grave. Probably belonging to his wife. In my opinion Ren turning to the dark side wouldn't be enough to send Luke into exile, but his pupil and best friend's son killing his wife surely would. He then wiped Rey's memory and took her to an almost uninhabited planet to protect her.

4. As safe as this movie played it, I kind of think they had to do it this way to prove to people that they can make a Star Wars movie without complete botching it. JJ wasn't brought on to reinvent the wheel, he was brought in to make an awesome, endearing movie that gets people excited for the franchise again and he did it. Episode 8 is being directed by the guy who directed arguably the greatest single episode of tv ever, Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias", so I see Episode 8 taking a dark left turn much like Empire did, and taking a lot more risks.

[North Buffalo]

Finally saw the movie... Awesome, so is Hans Solo actually dead, or his Obi Wan moment? Since we don't see his body....? Just saying leaves it open. Yeh Rey is Skywalker daughter and Ren is going to complete his training to evil setting up even greater battles.

[clintwestwood]

Finally saw the movie... Awesome, so is Hans Solo actually dead, or his Obi Wan moment? Since we don't see his body....? Just saying leaves it open. Yeh Rey is Skywalker daughter and Ren is going to complete his training to evil setting up even greater battles.

Han is dead. He was stabbed through the chest with a lightsaber, and fell into the core of a planet. As much as I hate watching a character I grew up with die, that dude is super dead. We never saw Obi Wan's body because he turned into a force ghost.

[Weave]

Han is quite and truly dead.  Han was not force sensitive.  He can't have an Obi-Wan moment.  The only one that could prevent Han from dying is Plagueis, if he's even still alive (yes, Snoke could be him, but.........).  And if he is, he's got no motivation that makes sense for keeping Han alive.

[GoPre]

Starkiller is the name of Vader's (elsewise nonexistant) apprentice from the Force Unleashed video game. It was already a dumbname that got re-used in the movie. Laaaame.

Lucas originally had Luke Skywalker as a girl, have no idea what her first name was, and the last name was Starkiller. Videogame makers took Starkiller from Lucas's rough draft for Star Wars.

[Hoss]

I'm surprised the "Kylo Ren is a good guy" theory hasn't sprung up here...

The theory would essentially be the opposite of Darth Vader's arc, too.

 

I don't know the theory well, but I heard it once and thought it has some potential.

Some key points off the top of my head that would support or be part of this theory:

- He worships Vader's broken up helmet. Ya know, the one Luke removed just after Vader saved his life. A turn for the good.

 

- He had a few important characters well within his grasp and didn't kill them. A few "mistakes" has cost the First Order big time.

 

- The moment where he kills Han was a bit drawn out and dramatic. He begged his father for help as he didn't know what to do. Han supported him and placed his hand on his saber. Then he kills Han swiftly. Like Snape killing Dumbledore it could all be a part of the plan to infiltrate the First Order and kill the dark side once and for all.

 

- He seems to have an issue with many of the members of the First Order.

 

 

I don't think this is real and also wouldn't mind a truly evil main character for once, but it's an interesting thought. An elaborate plan from the start to get him within the First Order as a means to finally and ultimately end them.

 

 

I think the theory originated from this all-caps rant:

 

http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Star-Wars-Force-Awakens-Theory-About-Kylo-Ren-39515387

Edited December 28, 2015 by Hoss

[clintwestwood]

 I don't think this is real and also wouldn't mind a truly evil main character for once, but it's an interesting thought. An elaborate plan from the start to get him within the First Order as a means to finally and ultimately end them.

Kylo killing Han was his final step into the dark completely. In that scene, half of the shot is white, the other half red. The moment Han is stabbed the white light is wiped out and everything goes red. That's not just symbolism for the sake of nothing. Him killing his father was him cutting ties with the one thing that kept the struggle alive. It's clear he doesn't know about Vader's turn, he still worships it as a powerful symbol of the dark side. And he struggles because as it's explicitly stated he hasn't completed his training yet. He is undisciplined and angry. Watch Vader in the first two movies specifically, he has his emotions in check and is all business, due to the intense training he received from Palpatine. A lot of people think he should have easily disposed of Rey in that final fight, forgetting he was severely wounded by Chewie's blaster, a weapon that basically blew up other members of the order, and was weakened by Finn's best effort to stay alive and protect Rey.

[Ogre]

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3702214?utm_source=fb-channel-superheroes&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=supreme-leader-snoke-s-role-in-star-wars-episode-8-revealed-by-john-williams

 

So maybe Snoke is Plagiues?

I would love it. Hugo Damask was always a behind the scene type of Lord. Hugo was Muun in the EU and Snoke is clearly not. Disney runs the show now so I guess Plaguies could be any species now. This new Dark master needs to have street credit IMO to be believable. Could a new dark force user really come in and fill the shadow of Sidious and Vader and be strong enough within those 30 years to have brought the remains of the Empire into the state they are in?

[dEnnis the Menace]

Bio is right.  Ren says that the First Order has the rest of the map, and he only needs that one piece, which is why he thought just taking Rey, who at that point had only seen the small piece, was all he needed.  

 

Saw it a second time, and I paid more attention to the imagery in the scenes, and wow! They did an excellent job with lighting and everything else in dramatic scenes.  Makes you feel it so much more.  

[GoPre]

Music implying Snoke is Plagueis? Check out this video. It has 3 parts. Music played when Palpatine speaks of Plagueis, music played w/ Snoke's appearance and both pieces being played at the same time. They sound very identical. 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Thanes16

[Robviously]

A few things here, mostly just my opinion.

 

1. Snoke is Plagueis. They specifically reference him as wise twice in the movie, which Plagueis was/is known as. Also Snoke's theme is basically exactly the same as the theme played when Palpatine was talking to Anakin about Plagueis in Episode 3. Would make sense since it would make him the bad guy behind the scenes of all 9 movies.

2. R2D2 definitely woke up because Rey was present. Rey is Luke's daughter. That lightsaber is specifically passed down in the Skywalker family.

3. At the end of the movie when they show Luke, it appears as though he's standing in front of a makeshift grave. Probably belonging to his wife. In my opinion Ren turning to the dark side wouldn't be enough to send Luke into exile, but his pupil and best friend's son killing his wife surely would. He then wiped Rey's memory and took her to an almost uninhabited planet to protect her.

4. As safe as this movie played it, I kind of think they had to do it this way to prove to people that they can make a Star Wars movie without complete botching it. JJ wasn't brought on to reinvent the wheel, he was brought in to make an awesome, endearing movie that gets people excited for the franchise again and he did it. Episode 8 is being directed by the guy who directed arguably the greatest single episode of tv ever, Breaking Bad's "Ozymandias", so I see Episode 8 taking a dark left turn much like Empire did, and taking a lot more risks.

1. I like this idea.  Or, even if he's not Plagueis, he needs to be someone who was around long before the events of the original trilogy (and if that's true, why not make him someone they mentioned in the prequels?).  It'd give him some gravitas.  He looks like he's a bazillion years old so it'd work.  I've heard a lot of people say they didn't like his "look" in the movie (he looked like the main Orc in the Hobbit movies) and I agree with that too.  It'd be cool if they did a Wizard of Oz and he didn't end up looking exactly like he portrayed himself in this one.

2. This makes sense but I still hope that's not where they're going with this.

3. Again, I think you're right but I hope you're not.  I also don't think it makes a ton of sense for how Rey was portrayed either.  Someone dropped her off on Jakku when she was ~6 years old or so and it looks like she's fending for herself completely when we meet her.  Luke Skywalker had a foster family and a Jedi Master a few miles away keeping an eye on him growing up.  If Rey is the new "New Hope", she'd be too important to just drop off alone like that, right?

4. Totally agree.  I think they played it as safe as they possibly could here because they had to after the prequels were 0 for 3.  If this one sucked, SW would be dead and Disney didn't spend $4B to let that happen.  Still wish they'd played it less safe, though, as the movie was at its best when they did their own thing.

4a. Also definitely looking forward to Rian Johnson as the director of VIII and the guy sketching out the story for VIII and IX.  I think he's the one best suited to take the series in some new places.

[Eleven]

So I'm thinking about going to see this.  Are tickets still ridiculously scarce or can I just show up at the theater and expect that I'll get in?

[Weave]

So I'm thinking about going to see this.  Are tickets still ridiculously scarce or can I just show up at the theater and expect that I'll get in?

 

Come out my way and you can show up at the theater and get in.

 

Really, I should think you could just show up and get tix anywhere now.  Especially on a week night.